thankyouOB
Posts: 3583
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:14 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 1442
Location: Coastal LA

Re: Average LEAF only Charges 2 hrs a day! INL

Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:18 pm

i charge about 15-18 hours a week. so that is not far off for me.
may reserve/delivery 4/30/11
--
ECOtality/LADWP/ Blink 4/4/11
--
Gardena Nissan, msrp -1k
red SL with etec L3
SOLAR POWERED since 2008

SanDust
Posts: 1363
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:54 am

Re: Average LEAF only Charges 2 hrs a day! INL

Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:47 pm

These are somewhat different numbers than Nissan has released. Nissan has said the average daily driving is 37 miles rather than 31 miles. Not a huge difference but not the same. In either case the two hour charge can't be right because with a 3.3 kW charger you can't get the 10-12 kWh you need in two hours.

Very interesting presentation though with lots of facts.

User avatar
aqn
Gold Member
Posts: 818
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:59 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 1333
Location: Austin, TX

Re: Average LEAF only Charges 2 hrs a day!

Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:19 pm

Neal wrote:Did you know the average LEAF is plugged into a Charger for 9 hours but only charges for 2 hours a day?
That sounds about right. My own data shows that over 41 240V charge events, the average charging time is 2.6 hours with an average of 4.5 SoC bars remaining.

That average number of remaining SoC bars also confirms my experience over the first three month of LEAF ownership that charging on 120V was not so time consuming as to be noticeable: a full recharge does not require more than overnight. That's effectively the same as my current experience with 240V charging.
Anna Nguyen

smkettner
Posts: 7313
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:13 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2014
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Average LEAF only Charges 2 hrs a day! INL

Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:28 pm

SanDust wrote:These are somewhat different numbers than Nissan has released. Nissan has said the average daily driving is 37 miles rather than 31 miles. Not a huge difference but not the same. In either case the two hour charge can't be right because with a 3.3 kW charger you can't get the 10-12 kWh you need in two hours.

Very interesting presentation though with lots of facts.

If L2 restores 15 mph charging, the 31 miles = about 2 hours. 37 would be closer to 2.5 hours.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV
RAV4 traded in for I-Pace Dec 2018

IBELEAF
Posts: 1235
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:23 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Apr 2011
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Average LEAF only Charges 2 hrs a day! INL

Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:42 pm

My average during 6 month ownership has been as reported 2 hours and I have Blink unit, but then my average daily mileage is 22 miles which far below Nissan's average.
Currently: '12 Volt (12k) since 7/2012
Previously: '11 Leaf SL (w/ 12k miles & 16 month ownership)

LEAFfan
Posts: 4828
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:08 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 1855
Location: Phoenix Area

Re: Average LEAF only Charges 2 hrs a day! INL

Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:32 am

SanDust wrote:In either case the two hour charge can't be right because with a 3.3 kW charger you can't get the 10-12 kWh you need in two hours.


LOL, of course you can! Who said you need 10-12? I've recharged to 80% many times in less than two hours! If it's at 5 bars left (48% actual), mine will charge 5 bars in about 100 minutes.
2013 LEAF SV Del. 2/28/13
2013 LEAF World Record for Most Miles Driven On One Charge-188 miles/8.8 m/kW h
4.8 kW DC PV ($ .91/W fully installed)/ Dec., 2010

SanDust
Posts: 1363
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:54 am

Re: Average LEAF only Charges 2 hrs a day! INL

Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:20 pm

smkettner wrote:If L2 restores 15 mph charging, the 31 miles = about 2 hours. 37 would be closer to 2.5 hours.
If you have a 3.3 kW charger then, given that there will be an unavoidable loss of 10% inherent in the electrical to chemical conversion, assuming no other losses you can put 2.97 kWh of charge into a battery in one hour. In two hours that's 5.94 kWh. Going 30 miles on 5.94 kWh would require you to use less than 200 wh/mile, which isn't realistic. Going 37 miles would require you to use 160 wh/mile, which is surreal.

IBELEAF wrote:My average during 6 month ownership has been as reported 2 hours and I have Blink unit, but then my average daily mileage is 22 miles which far below Nissan's average.
This is what you'd expect from a careful driver. You're using about 260 wh/mile so I'd say that you're not driving very aggressively and you're not driving very fast.

LEAFfan wrote:LOL, of course you can! Who said you need 10-12? I've recharged to 80% many times in less than two hours! If it's at 5 bars left (48% actual), mine will charge 5 bars in about 100 minutes.
Charging 5 bars in 100 minutes would be quite the trick. Even if you only have 20 kWh usable that would mean you're ending up with 8.3 kWh in the battery in a little more than an hour and a half (5/12 X 20 = 8.333). Can't happen unless you believe that 1.5 X 3.3 = 8.3. Even if the charger was 100% efficient, which it isn't, you'd need two and a half hours (8.3/3.3=2.5). Since the charger will be at best 90% efficient, to get 8.3 kWh of charge into the battery from a 3.3 kW charger you'd need something close to three hours.

smkettner
Posts: 7313
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:13 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2014
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Average LEAF only Charges 2 hrs a day! INL

Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:29 pm

Good thing 2013 will cut the home recharge time in half.... to just one hour ;)
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV
RAV4 traded in for I-Pace Dec 2018

User avatar
planet4ever
Posts: 4674
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:53 pm
Delivery Date: 02 May 2011
Leaf Number: 1537
Location: Morgan Hill, CA, south of San Jose

Re: Average LEAF only Charges 2 hrs a day! INL

Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:14 am

SanDust wrote:Charging 5 bars in 100 minutes would be quite the trick. Even if you only have 20 kWh usable that would mean you're ending up with 8.3 kWh in the battery in a little more than an hour and a half (5/12 X 20 = 8.333). Can't happen unless you believe that 1.5 X 3.3 = 8.3. Even if the charger was 100% efficient, which it isn't, you'd need two and a half hours (8.3/3.3=2.5). Since the charger will be at best 90% efficient, to get 8.3 kWh of charge into the battery from a 3.3 kW charger you'd need something close to three hours.

You are overlooking at least three important things, SanDust:
  1. The twelve bars do not represent all of the available battery energy. You probably still have about 15% of it left when the last bar disappears. So you can't calculate 5/12 X 20 = 8.333.
  2. It seems very unlikely that all bars represent the same fraction of the available energy, again invalidating the above calculation as well as not allowing another term to account for the 15%.
  3. Phil (Ingineer) has calculated the input power to the charger carefully, and it is capable of 3.84 kW, not 3.3 kW. The charger is presumably capable of sending 3.3 kW to the battery, so you can forget your 90% adjustment, at least in terms of charger efficiency. There will be some loss at the battery, however. 85% seems to be an accepted overall efficiency with 240v 16A charging, so 3.26 kW into the battery is probably about right.

I could believe that LEAFfan is getting 5.4 to 5.5 kWh into his battery in 100 minutes, and that might well translate to charging from 5+ bars to 10- bars. (9.6 bars - 5.4 bars would be a delta of 4.2 bars.) Put another way, Tony's chart suggests LEAFfan might be charging to 80% from as much as 53%. Even assuming a 21 kWh capacity, 21 * 0.27 = 5.67 kWh. Not far off indeed.

Ray
End of April 2013: Traded my 2011 SL for a 2013 S with charge pkg.

mark13
Posts: 393
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 2:28 pm

Re: Average LEAF only Charges 2 hrs a day! INL

Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:43 pm

Tony Williams said.My typical Blink charge is just under 5 hours for 80%, and under 7 hours for 100%.

Hmmm my Blink charger does 100% in 4.5 hours with 10 miles left....My Blink is on the blink also..It either shows the Blink screen or a black screen ,no timer...Blink says there is not software fix :shock:

I was actually going to bring this up in a new thread..How fast does your car fully charge..I remember reading 6-7 hours..

Return to “Range / Efficiency / Carwings”