Using Type 2 charging stations with a standard 3.3kw charger

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Rooksie

New member
Joined
Jul 30, 2013
Messages
2
I'm about to purchase a Leaf in the UK, and I'm planning on just getting the standard 3.3kw 16A charger, as most of the time a standard 240V household plug will be fine for my charging needs.

However most of the public chargers near me are of the 32A Mennekes Type 2 variety.

Am I correct in thinking that if I bought a 32A Type 1/Type 2 cable like the one from Zero Carbon World I could charge my 16A 3.3kw Leaf from a 32A 6.6kw Type 2 station safely, although obviously at a reduced rate of 3.3kw?

I don't need the extra charging speed, just access to the chargers themselves.

The Type 1/Type 2 cable... http://shop.zerocarbonworld.org/cables/32a-type2-type1-cable.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sorry if this question has been answered before, I've been all around this forums, and although found similar posts, I've not been able to find anyone asking this exact same question. I also asked the dealer and they didn't have a clue, although the seem clueless on everything about the Leaf at the moment!

Thanks,

Rooksie
 
Rooksie said:
Am I correct in thinking that if I bought a 32A Type 1/Type 2 cable like the one from Zero Carbon World I could charge my 16A 3.3kw Leaf from a 32A 6.6kw Type 2 station safely, although obviously at a reduced rate of 3.3kw?
Click to expand...
This looks like the what you need to access public chargers using the Mennekes standard.

Note that the charging rate may be lower than 3.3kW using this cable, just as charging a LEAF at a public charger in the US is slower than at home. The reason is that the cable likely simply picks up two of the three phases so you will only get line-to-line voltage, which is typically lower than your single-phase household voltage (at least in the U.S.). The 2011/2012 LEAF will not draw more than 16A no matter what voltage it sees.
 
Sounds like a good question to post at:


http://www.leaftalk.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Might not be as extensive and in-depth as this forum, but all things UK.
 
DNAinaGoodWay said:
Sounds like a good question to post at:


http://www.leaftalk.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Might not be as extensive and in-depth as this forum, but all things UK.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice, I'll check it out.
 
Rooksie said:
Am I correct in thinking that if I bought a 32A Type 1/Type 2 cable like the one from Zero Carbon World I could charge my 16A 3.3kw Leaf from a 32A 6.6kw Type 2 station safely, although obviously at a reduced rate of 3.3kw?
Click to expand...

Yes.

The Type 2 EU standard provides for three phase or one phase charging, interchangeably, at any current. Once the charger has communicated with the car, it will deliver one phase if that is all that the car can handle. The car will then take whatever current the charger takes, up to what the charging station can give.

Likewise, the Zoe that can take 3 phase charging will only pull one phase from a charger that is only one phase capable (3.3 or 7kW).

So you can plug a 3.3 or 7kW capable car into a 3.3kW one phase, 7kW one phase, 22kW 3 phase or 38kW 3 phase capable socket, and vice versa. No problem, The car and the charger figure it all out for you.

As you are probably aware, in the UK you can have a charging station installed at a residential address and paid for by Gov (i.e. tax-payer), at the moment. The companies who do this will offer you a 3.3 kW charger, providing you are in GSM range (because one of the Gov stipulations is that your charging data will be recorded, for research purposes).

I would strongly recommend you ask to pay extra to have the 7kW (30A) charger fitted, which they will usually do. I would also recommend you go for a Type 2 socket charging station, rather than a tethered lead type, because this will 'future proof' the charging station for any future EV you (or the next owner of the house) will have, as it will then simply be a case of getting a different lead type if the car charging point changes. But that will depend on your own circumstances and desires. If the car does not come with a lead as standard, you could save money by having a station installed with a tethered lead, if you plan only to charge at home. A tethered lead might also be slightly more convenient for you that unwinding your lead from your boot (or wherever you keep it) each time.

There is, currently, no case for 'continued' use of a 10A 3-pin 'occasional' charging lead. Especially while the installation of a dedicated circuit is available under Gov grants, you should take it.

I've just taken a look at the current UK brochure for Leaf. Are you buying new? The 6.6kW charger is an extra £850 (and then comes with the Type 2-J1772 lead). I guess that is an expense on the edge of whether or not to buy it. Shame they don't offer it a little cheaper then it'd be easier to make a decision to pay for it, because the faster charger will probably help its residual value, and also provide more opportunity to cover longer distances.
 
TonyWilliams said:
RegGuheert said:
2011/2012 LEAF will not draw more than 16A no matter what voltage it sees.
Click to expand...
Not true. It will pull 18 amps at 200 volts (standard voltage in Japan).
Click to expand...
Interesting! That implies that the LEAF might charge at 18A when connected to an EVSE powered by 208VAC in the US since the range is 197V to 218V. Does anyone know what the voltage threshold is for switching from 16A to 18A? I would assume it is above 210V to allow for variations in the Japanese power grid.
 
RegGuheert said:
TonyWilliams said:
RegGuheert said:
2011/2012 LEAF will not draw more than 16A no matter what voltage it sees.
Click to expand...
Not true. It will pull 18 amps at 200 volts (standard voltage in Japan).
Click to expand...
Interesting! That implies that the LEAF might charge at 18A when connected to an EVSE powered by 208VAC in the US since the range is 197V to 218V. Does anyone know what the voltage threshold is for switching from 16A to 18A? I would assume it is above 210V to allow for variations in the Japanese power grid.
Click to expand...

Yes, about 18 amps at 208 volt.
 
davewill said:
TonyWilliams said:
pchilds said:
The 2011 LEAF pulls 18 amps down to 156 volts.
Click to expand...
When does it transition from 18 down to 16 amps?
Click to expand...
I would think the transition would be down to the L1 limit of 12a. Do the '13 cars limit L1 to 12a like the '11 and '12 cars did?
Click to expand...

Yes.

Only Tesla goes to 20 amps on 120 volts.
 
donald said:
Yes.

The Type 2 EU standard provides for three phase or one phase charging, interchangeably, at any current. Once the charger has communicated with the car, it will deliver one phase if that is all that the car can handle. The car will then take whatever current the charger takes, up to what the charging station can give.
Click to expand...
Nice summation. The chargers are the same except for the extra pin and neutral to support 3 phase. No problem using an adapter.
 
SanDust said:
donald said:
Yes.

The Type 2 EU standard provides for three phase or one phase charging, interchangeably, at any current. Once the charger has communicated with the car, it will deliver one phase if that is all that the car can handle. The car will then take whatever current the charger takes, up to what the charging station can give.
Click to expand...
Nice summation. The chargers are the same except for the extra pin and neutral to support 3 phase. No problem using an adapter.
Click to expand...

The Mennekes Type 2 is a thing of beauty for a true world standard mechanical (non-inductive) plug up to about 100kW.

AC single pause, AC three phase, DC. It's what Tesla is using "modified" in Europe.
 
RegGuheert said:
TonyWilliams said:
RegGuheert said:
2011/2012 LEAF will not draw more than 16A no matter what voltage it sees.
Click to expand...
Not true. It will pull 18 amps at 200 volts (standard voltage in Japan).
Click to expand...
Interesting! That implies that the LEAF might charge at 18A when connected to an EVSE powered by 208VAC in the US since the range is 197V to 218V. Does anyone know what the voltage threshold is for switching from 16A to 18A? I would assume it is above 210V to allow for variations in the Japanese power grid.
Click to expand...
My understanding is that there is no switching threshold. The 3.3 kW charger simply operates power-limited, not current limited, when the supply is between 208V and 240V. Below 208V the charger becomes current limited at 18A.

In the US, I believe the vast majority of public L2 charging is at 208V, which is the most common commercial 3-phase phase-to-phase voltage. Those of us with 2011 and 2012 models never noticed because the power delivered into the car and the battery is the same as our home charging at 240V 16A.

The lucky folks with 2013 6 kW chargers will be current limited, so the common 208V gives them significantly slower charge on the road (about 1.6 X old charger rate) than 240V at home.
 
tbleakne said:
The lucky folks with 2013 6 kW chargers will be current limited, so the common 208V gives them significantly slower charge on the road (about 1.6 X old charger rate) than 240V at home.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure we actually know that.

27.5 amps at 240 volts has measured, but I haven't seen anybody actually measure off of 200-208 volts. I'll be it's 30 amps, though.

If somebody wants to bring a 2013 by my house with a 6.6kW charger, we will drive down to the local Walgreens and measure it at 208 volts.
 
tbleakne said:
My understanding is that there is no switching threshold. The 3.3 kW charger simply operates power-limited, not current limited, when the supply is between 208V and 240V. Below 208V the charger becomes current limited at 18A.
Click to expand...
O.K. That makes sense. In other words, the charger enforces both a power limit AND a current limit in Level 2 mode. Using Phil's power draw measurement of 3756W, this gives 15A at 250V increasing to 18A at 208V and below.

Thanks for the explanation!
 
Tesla does this, too. 40 amps until 250 volts (10kW), then amps drop to 36 amps at 277 volts (10kW still).

It will never exceed 40 amps or 10kW.

Also, it runs at 20 amps (not surprisingly) on 120 volts.
 

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