Is a used Leaf right for us?

I live in Los Angeles (Pasadena area) and am in the market to replace my Corolla. I originally planned on getting an older Prius, but now I'm leaning toward a used Leaf when I saw how cheap they were. As I did research on this forum about what I wanted and what to look for in a used Leaf, I realized you guys provide a lot of good insight on what I should be looking for based on my driving needs. So I'm just looking for some insight on what vehicle would be best for us.

My wife and I will share the car. Our other shared vehicle will be an SUV. My wife works from home and does a lot of activities with our 2 kids around town. My commute is only 2 miles, but I also regularly drive 25-30 miles one way for client meetings. I anticipate that I'll drive the Leaf on days that I have meetings and my wife will take it the other days (as long as it has the range she needs for the day).

I am looking for something that makes sense financially. I typically just buy an older commuter car and drive it for a long time. I'm considering a Leaf because it appears to me that we'll put enough miles on it (10-12k per year) that the gas and maintenance savings will make it worth the additional ~$5000 to go from a ICE to EV. And we also would get the benefit of driving a much nicer car and reducing our oil consumption.

Right now I was specifically looking at 2013-14 Leafs with 20-30k miles on them. I want to make sure it has Quick Charge ability so I have the ability to take it around town for work when needed. I also liked that the 2013s have 6.6 kw chargers. I see plenty of those available around town with 12 bars for $10k. That seemed like a good choice to me, but a lot of you guys recommend buying new or leasing. It doesn't seem to me that a new EV would save enough money to make it worth that upgrade, but I don't really know.

Lastly, I've read a couple of posts about using Leaf Spy to determine the battery quality. What do I need to buy to use the app and what should I be looking for when I hook up to a Leaf that I'm looking at?

Thanks in advance.

Sounds like you should be able to make it meet your mileage needs. You can charge at home? Looking at L2 or EVSE Upgrade?

See the LeafSpy thread for details, but you'll need an OBD ll that matches your phone, Bluetooth for Android, wifi for iPhone. You can compare SOH and AHrs on cars your looking at, the higher the better. Also check for bad cells, but that's unlikely.

DNAinaGoodWay said:

You can charge at home? Looking at L2 or EVSE Upgrade?

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Yes. I am leaning toward a Juice box 40. It seemed like the cheapest option that was still high quality and high enough amps to max out a 6.6 kw charger.

Sounds good. You've studied. You'll do well. 2013's were the first year built in TN and may have a slightly higher risk of build issues than a '14, but I don't see any advantage to getting a new one.

DNAinaGoodWay said:

See the LeafSpy thread for details, but you'll need an OBD ll that matches your phone, Bluetooth for Android, wifi for iPhone.

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Actually the LELink Bluetooth works good on iPhone.

https://www.amazon.com/LELink-Bluetooth-Energy-OBD-II-Diagnostic/dp/B00QJRYMFC?ie=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0

Look for a 2013 built after March of 2013, or a 2014. Look for one with 11 bars, and use LeafSpy to determine that it's a "solid" 11 bars, not 10 and change. I think that a 10 bar car might not last you enough years, and this is assuming that you can charge a bit on those 60 mile trips. If you want to be safer range-wise, look for a lower mileage car with all 12 bars.

DNAinaGoodWay said:

Sounds good. You've studied. You'll do well. 2013's were the first year built in TN and may have a slightly higher risk of build issues than a '14, but I don't see any advantage to getting a new one.

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Haha. I've done way too much research on it at work this week. But thanks.

paulcone said:

Actually the LELink Bluetooth works good on iPhone.

https://www.amazon.com/LELink-Bluetooth-Energy-OBD-II-Diagnostic/dp/B00QJRYMFC?ie=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0

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I have an android.

LeftieBiker said:

Look for a 2013 built after March of 2013, or a 2014. Look for one with 11 bars, and use LeafSpy to determine that it's a "solid" 11 bars, not 10 and change. I think that a 10 bar car might not last you enough years, and this is assuming that you can charge a bit on those 60 mile trips. If you want to be safer range-wise, look for a lower mileage car with all 12 bars.

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I've heard that build date cut off before, but didnt think much of it. I'll make sure and remember it, thanks. I'd obviously like to have one with more range, but I guess it'll just be a range/price tradeoff decision that I'll have to make.

I've heard that build date cut off before, but didnt think much of it. I'll make sure and remember it, thanks. I'd obviously like to have one with more range, but I guess it'll just be a range/price tradeoff decision that I'll have to make.

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Keep in mind that an early 2013 Leaf may lose bars as fast as a pre-2013 Leaf, when making that calculation. We aren't certain why, but those early 2013 batteries seem to degrade faster, going by the modest evidence we have.

DNAinaGoodWay said:

Sounds like you should be able to make it meet your mileage needs. You can charge at home? Looking at L2 or EVSE Upgrade?

See the LeafSpy thread for details, but you'll need an OBD ll that matches your phone, Bluetooth for Android, wifi for iPhone. You can compare SOH and AHrs on cars your looking at, the higher the better. Also check for bad cells, but that's unlikely.

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I'm sorry, but can you point me to the right thread? I've looked and the only thing I really have found is this from this thread

mwalsh said:

Lite will be fine, and yes you will be looking at the screen showing the shunting of the 96 cells. Specifically you're looking for the AHr reading from the car:

66.25AHr = approximate AHr value of a brand new 2011-2013 LEAF battery pack
54AHr-55.5AHr = expected AHr range at which loss of bar 12 occurs
50AHr-51.5AHr = expected AHr range at which loss of bar 11 occurs
46AHr-47.5AHr = expected AHr range at which loss of bar 10 occurs
42AHr-43.5AHr = expected AHr range at which loss of bar 9 occurs

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What are SOH and how would I look for a bad cell?

That's good stuff from mwalsh. Most used cars you'll see are close to one bar down if not more. Use AHrs to compare prices or negotiate.

The main LeafSpy thread is : http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=19147&hilit=LeafSpy which the developer, Turbo3 monitors and answers questions.

SOH or state of health, refers to chemical resistance built up in the cells. Weak cells show up on the cell graph screen with abnormally low voltage. A well balanced pack has low millivolt variance.

A well balanced pack has low millivolt variance.

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It should be noted, though, that a perfectly fine pack will get imbalanced if rarely charged to 100% and allowed to equalize. So I'd look for actual bad cells, not modest millivolt imbalances, when Leaf shopping.

Yes, a truly bad cell will have a huge variance, and is a rare thing. I wouldn't worry about it. I almost always charge to 100% so my pack gets balanced a lot, I'm clueless about how other graphs would look if a pack wasn't regularly balanced, or how much variance is tolerable before it significantly impacts range. If you can, charge the car up and take a reading. OTOH, watch out for cars left at 100% for long periods of time in the heat.

LeftieBiker said:

A well balanced pack has low millivolt variance.

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It should be noted, though, that a perfectly fine pack will get imbalanced if rarely charged to 100% and allowed to equalize. So I'd look for actual bad cells, not modest millivolt imbalances, when Leaf shopping.

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Ok, thanks for the info. So SOH should be close to 100%? How low of a number would be concerning? 85%

Ok, thanks for the info. So SOH should be close to 100%? How low of a number would be concerning? 85%

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85% is the point at which the first bar is lost, give or take 1%. I'd look for 90% or better, and settle for 89% or better.

GregO said:

My commute is only 2 miles, but I also regularly drive 25-30 miles one way for client meetings. I anticipate that I'll drive the Leaf on days that I have meetings and my wife will take it the other days (as long as it has the range she needs for the day).

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I would definitely avoid the '11-12 LEAF for 50-60 mile trips between charging unless it somehow still has 12 bars.

A '13 with 12 bars may be OK, but the question would be - for how much longer? The '13+ LEAF does tend to have a bit more range than the '11-12 LEAFs...