New member with loads of installation questions!

Hi all,

Just bought my Nissan Leaf, and trying to figure everything out.

Looking into what needs to be installed into our garage, and here are my questions:

1. How safe is it to charge a Leaf on a 110V or a 240V that is already installed in a garage? Should I have the outlet rated before I charge?

2. I'm looking at having a TOU meter installed for the new circuitry in addition to the existing meter used for existing circuitry. Once installed, is it possible to remove the TOU later down the road?

3. Can the newly installed outlet be an 8 kW outlet? (Not knowing as much about electronics as I should, I'm not sure if that question even makes sense!) I know that the battery is a 6.6 kW (it's a 2015 Leaf with the rapid charge package). The electricity company gives incentives (is it 2.5 cents per kWh?), but only for 8 kW. Does that mean that the outlet needs to be 8 kW or does that refer to the car? Is it likely that I could charge the 6.6 kW car on a newly installed 8 kW outlet and be able to take advantage of the incentive?

4. Do I have to install an actual "EVSE" in order to get incentives like the 2.5 per kWh and refunds for installation, etc, or can I just use my cable to connect to a newly installed 10-30 outlet and still be able to get the incentives?

5. Is there anything else you would like to advise me on?!

Thank you very much in advance for any response!

~m

1a: Trickle charging (110V) is not recommended. This is mostly because it takes a VERY long time. From the Leaf's perspective, there is nothing wrong with it.
1b: By default, you can't charge on 220/240V at home. You're thinking of something like EVSEUpgrade.com

2: That depends on your Utility Provider, you're unlikely to get an answer here without updating your location info (User Control Panel, top right of screen)

3: You can (and should) overprovision the wiring/outlet. This reduces line losses, and helps futureproof. It also sounds like you're mixing terminology. 8kW is power. Your battery is 24kWh (energy), not 6kW, not 24kW. (Technically speaking, its rated for ~90kW, but that's irrelevant in this context). Using a higher-rated EVSE is perfectly safe. The Leaf (or any compliant vehicle) will never draw more than it can handle.

4: Same as #2

5: Update your profile. Very many answers are dependent on your location, model, and trim.

Thank you, mctom. I updated my location (Pasadena, CA). Does that help?

I didn't see a place to put such information as model, trim, etc, but for information: it's a Nissan Leaf S (with an upgraded 6.6 battery).

Thank you for the information, btw.

Regarding 220/240v home charging, yes, I'm talking about EVSEUpgrade.com. I'm looking at the upgrade from the provided cable to a unit with interchangeable plugs.

Trickle charging should be safe, though, right? I wouldn't necessarily need to have the circuit certified for it or anything, should I? If I were to go to a friend's house, would I be safe plugging into their outlet?

It helps, but not for me, as I'm not from that area.

Going off the perks you mentioned, it doesn't sound like you're on PG&E like I am, so I can't help much. Hopefully someone else from that area will know about the perks.

Trickle charging is perfectly safe, if done as instructed. The problem is almost every single house is not wired as the EVSE requires. This alone isn't a problem, but if you have something else running on the same circuit (washer/dryer/fridge/lights) you are likely to blow the breaker.

If you got the EVSE upgrade, it's likely a better scenario, as an L6-30 or 10-30 outlet is likely to be alone on the breaker.

In any case, it's never a bad idea to have an electrician inspect it. I wired my own, and have not had any issues with it.

If your home has fairly new wiring, *and* the outlet used feels nice and "tight" with the portable EVSE plug inserted, then as long as the circuit isn't handling much more than the Leaf and a light or two, you are ok. Older wiring should be checked.

Re #2: we have NYSEG in NY, and they let you change to or from TOU billing every one or two years. Two, IIRC.

Finally, it is your onboard charger that was upgraded to 6.6kw. You have the same battery as all other Leafs of that year.

That makes sense.

On the battery - does that mean that if I ever upgrade the battery, the max I could get charging is 6.6?

Looks like the city of Pasadena program for experimental EV TOU rates stopped accepting new customers on 6/15/14. Did you find out otherwise? It would be nice for them to update their website if that is the case...I didn't see any reference on their website to a 8 kW outlet.

http://www.ci.pasadena.ca.us/waterandpower/EV/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

mikelb said:

That makes sense.

On the battery - does that mean that if I ever upgrade the battery, the max I could get charging is 6.6?

Click to expand...

The battery can't (yet) be upgraded. Nissan has not announced any plans. You're confusing the on-board charger (aka OBC) with the battery. The EVSE is also not the charger, it merely supplies power to the Leaf's OBC.

Both the 3.3 and 6.6kW OBC have the same battery, same performance, etc.. The only difference is how fast it can charge.

Is it possible to upgrade to a larger capacity battery (if one is ever made) without changing the OBC?

mikelb said:

Is it possible to upgrade to a larger capacity battery (if one is ever made) without changing the OBC?

Click to expand...

I've heard of a few aftermarket kits adding 8 or 16kWh, but they are quite expensive.

Nothing official from Nissan, nor any plans made public.

Regarding #4, if you're talking about the federal tax credit for purchasing and installing a charging station on your property, note that this credit expired at the end of 2013 and AFAIK was not renewed.

mikelb said:

Is it possible to upgrade to a larger capacity battery (if one is ever made) without changing the OBC?

Click to expand...

I guess you could relate it to a laptop...

This part is inside the car. It is the actual charger, and since it is in the car, it is the onboard charger:



Then the EVSE is really just a fancy plug adapter with safety shutoffs that takes some input connector and makes it into the one the car requires So it could be a standard US outlet, a dryer outlet, a UK outlet, whatever:




The car itself is the laptop. The battery plugs into the car, and generally there are no aftermarket extra capacity batteries. But if there were, it would have to fit the exact same hole and charge at the same rate. There are some external laptop batteries which are basically batteries that fit on externally to the laptop and give you a larger range like my Toshiba. This would be akin to the extra battery capacity kits that are made. They interface to the original car pack and are just supplemental.

That's an awesome analogy.

Agreed. Thanks, 2k1tToaster.

mikelb said:

Agreed. Thanks, 2k1tToaster.

Click to expand...

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=16948" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You can try this.. works very well.. and it just $25

mikelb said:

...
1. How safe is it to charge a Leaf on a 110V or a 240V that is already installed in a garage? Should I have the outlet rated before I charge?
...

Click to expand...

mikelb said:

...
Trickle charging should be safe, though, right? I wouldn't necessarily need to have the circuit certified for it or anything, should I? If I were to go to a friend's house, would I be safe plugging into their outlet?

Click to expand...

How safe 120V charging is depends on how lucky you are.
Very few garages have the correct properly installed high quality single outlet supplied by a single breaker.
Code only allows using 80% of the circuit rating for a long term continuous load.
So on a 15 amp circuit nothing else should be on the same circuit while the car is charging.
And a lot of 120V gets put in poorly using push in connections.
One person had a bad fire most likely from staples that had damaged the cable in the wall.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=15784&hilit=+fire#p352567" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Have a qualified person verify that what you are using is correct.
But in general a proper new carefully done 240V installation is much safer.

And forget modifying your 120V EVSE.
Very unlikely OP has proper qualifications to do this!! :shock:

Hello MikeIB,

Welcome to the Wonderful World of Leaf! Just be happy with what you have. Do not worry about upgeading, extended battery, etc. If you Lease, you do not want to do anything that will cost you when you turn in the Leaf. If you own, you do not want to do anything that voids the warranty.

If range is an issue with you, just slow down to 55mph on the freeway and you can GREATLY extend the range compared to 70+mph.

Getting a 30a EVSE at home will allow your Leaf to charge at the 6.6kw max rate. We are VERY happy with ours. There are lots of choices available, from DYI to full install packages, and vary in price from a couple hundred to couple of thousand dollars.

If you have to hire an Electrician to come out to install a new circuit, then "future proof" it by having them run wires and install circuit to work with higher kw rating of the Tesla or Rav4EV. However, anything larger than 40a circuit for 30a EVSE is wasted on the current Leaf package. As was stated earlier, the OBC on your Leaf has a max 6.6kw charge rate.

In case you have not seen it already, the various charge rates are about this:

Miles per kwh will average you about 4.

L1 (120v): 4 to 5 miles per hour charge
L2 (240v): 25 miles per hour charge
L3 (440v DCFC): 150 miles per hour charge

At low state of charge the battery will take as much as you can get into it. When you get close to 100% the charge rate will slow down.

Before you spend money having your EVSE upgraded research the other options available. First determine what your needs will be. We have found that we are already driving at the maximum miles per our lease with just local driving and almost never use any charging but at home. Why spend an hour parked somewhere else just to get $1.00 of electricity, even if it is free. My time is worth so much more than the electricity we got for free. If we have to pay for it, it is much cheaper at home.

We thought we would use the Leaf for more trips, but since it costs us $0.15 per mile for any mile over our 15,000 per year, it is cheaper to just use our ICE for any drive outside the local area. Therefore the longest trip we will take in the Leaf is about 80 miles (40 miles each way). My wife uses the Leaf for her commute (19 miles RT each day, 100 miles weekly) but we still end up with about 300 miles each week on the Leaf.

Good Luck with your EV experience.

Thank you TimLee and Graffi. I'm definitely feeling welcome and part of the community already

After looking at all the options, depending on the electrical inspection, I'm thinking that installing a 240v 10-30 outlet on a new circuit into the garage may be the best option, with an EVSEUpgrade. Since the LEAF doesn't have an 8 kW battery (and I may be past the incentive period anyway), it won't do me much good to install a TOU.

Although, one more question: would there be any benefit to installing a charging station over doing an upgrade on the cable via EVSEUpgrade?

Thanks so much, all, for the warm welcome and help!

mikelb said:

Although, one more question: would there be any benefit to installing a charging station over doing an upgrade on the cable via EVSEUpgrade?

Click to expand...

Well, if you set yourself up to depend on the portable EVSE cable that comes with the car, you have to either keep stowing & un-stowing it each day or leave it semi-permanently plugged somewhere you routinely park. Stowing/unstowing it each day is a hassle, but leaving it behind deprives you of the capability of picking up an emergency charge at some location (a friend's garage, say) that only has a normal L1 outlet. I was fortunate enough to get an EVSE installed "for free" through the DOE's EVProject program, but I think that even if I had to pay for it, I'd have installed a home EVSE. And I still would have had the portable one upgraded as well.

mikelb said:

Since the LEAF doesn't have an 8 kW battery (and I may be past the incentive period anyway), it won't do me much good to install a TOU.

Although, one more question: would there be any benefit to installing a charging station over doing an upgrade on the cable via EVSEUpgrade?

Click to expand...

You keep using the erroneous terminology that others explained earlier.
The kW rating you are referring to is the On Board Charger (OBC), NOT the battery.
Yours is maximum 6.6 kW from the wall, 6.0 kW into the battery.
evseupgrade of your 120V EVSE is $287 and it has a maximum kW of 4.8 so it cannot charge at the maximum rate the vehicle OBC supports.
But it provides easy portable flexibility for charging while traveling if you purchase the right plug adapters.
There are many 6.6 kW capable EVSE now available. Lowest cost available new with warranty is ~$450 but many are more like $500 to $600 new.
Your choice and decision on time of charging versus $ versus portability / travel issues.