LeftieBiker
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Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Talk to me about charging/EVSE and charging stations

Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:18 am

A longer post got eaten by the server.

No go, at best something like 3 or 4 miles of charge at your friends house...


She wants to charge for *four hours* at her friend's house, not one. That's at least 15 miles of range added. Please read more carefully.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium and no QC, a 2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, and 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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Wennfred
Posts: 382
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 3:47 am
Delivery Date: 24 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000660
Location: San Diego, CA (Imperial Beach)

Re: Talk to me about charging/EVSE and charging stations

Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:29 am

LeftieBiker wrote:A longer post got eaten by the server.

No go, at best something like 3 or 4 miles of charge at your friends house...


She wants to charge for *four hours* at her friend's house, not one. That's at least 15 miles of range added. Please read more carefully.


Dude what's your problem, keeping it to laymans terms here with her, you can answer her questions with all of your technical knowledge and lose her as most people on this board, this is one of the most hostile forums I've join, it's no wonder why people are afraid to ask questions here.

From the very first post "well he has a few wrong answers, Who gives a Hoot. As long as she gets what I mean, the Link added was even more confusing.

Relax dude.


Fred San Diego Ca
MFG: FEB 2011, Red Recd 08/10/13 @ 19600 Miles
"Eco Mode" only. 06/24/15 - 9 CB @ 43,000mi 100% charge: GIDS=199, S=95.37, C=46.76, H=50.51 Lost 1st CB at 26300, 2nd CB 34274 3rd CB 43000 miles

LeftieBiker
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Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Talk to me about charging/EVSE and charging stations

Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:34 am

"Dude", you can be as laid-back as you want, but don't give incorrect answers to people. Calling an EVSE a "charger"is a fairly harmless mistake, but telling someone that L-1 charging at someone's home for four hours will only give 4 or 5 miles of range is not acceptable. Hopefully a Moderator will ask you to cut that out, but at the very least I'm going to correct you so you don't give bad advice. As for my posts being overly technical (at least I think that's what you meant, but really, who knows?), you haven't run into a real Leaf Geek yet. I was just too technical for you.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium and no QC, a 2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, and 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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Wennfred
Posts: 382
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Delivery Date: 24 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000660
Location: San Diego, CA (Imperial Beach)

Re: Talk to me about charging/EVSE and charging stations

Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:40 am

LeftieBiker wrote:"Dude", you can be as laid-back as you want, but don't give incorrect answers to people. Calling an EVSE a "charger"is a fairly harmless mistake, but telling someone that L-1 charging at someone's home for four hours will only give 4 or 5 miles of range is not acceptable. Hopefully a Moderator will ask you to cut that out, but at the very least I'm going to correct you so you don't give bad advice. As for my posts being overly technical (at least I think that's what you meant, but really, who knows?), you haven't run into a real Leaf Geek yet. I was just too technical for you.


Really dude Really? 15 miles is all you got out of those 4 long hours? LoL 15 miles I eat up on my first 15 minutes of my commute, just keeping it real, 4 hours of charge for 15 miles still not enough.

I love my Leaf but I would of gone with the Volt for the added range when needed. My round trip to work and back runs around 40 miles. Could also run the Volt to Vegas with no worries if needed.

Mother of 2 and her husband has concerns, I would go with the Volt or even the Rav4 Ev for more range.
MFG: FEB 2011, Red Recd 08/10/13 @ 19600 Miles
"Eco Mode" only. 06/24/15 - 9 CB @ 43,000mi 100% charge: GIDS=199, S=95.37, C=46.76, H=50.51 Lost 1st CB at 26300, 2nd CB 34274 3rd CB 43000 miles

RonDawg
Posts: 2751
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Delivery Date: 11 Jan 2013
Leaf Number: 027089
Location: SoCal

Re: Talk to me about charging/EVSE and charging stations

Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:29 am

lifeincolor wrote:One more quick question. On the share plug app there are seven different varities of chargers you can check to show, starting with the wall 120, and includes stations like "NEMA 14-50" and "Tesla Supercharge". Which ones out of the seven can I check to charge the Leaf SL?


NEMA 14-50 is a type of outlet, not a charger. When you see this in PlugShare, it means there is a 240 volt outlet available of a certain type that is capable of supplying a continuous 40 amp current. But without an EVSE to plug into it, it cannot charge your car.

The EVSE that comes with the car is designed to work with 120 volt outlets only, but for around $300 there is a company that will modify it to accept both 120 and 240 volt current. The plug that is installed with this modification is called an NEMA L6-30, but you can purchase from the vendor (and MyNissanLeaf member) an adapter that lets you plug into a standard grounded 120 volt outlet. Another adapter will let the upgraded EVSE use NEMA 14-50. Link: http://evseupgrade.com/?main_page=produ ... ducts_id=2

I should mention this now, as there is misinformation on the Internet: DO NOT CONNECT AN UNMODIFIED EVSE FROM A US OR CANADIAN MODEL LEAF TO AN OUTLET OF OVER 120 VOLTS!!! Despite what is being misreported, Nissan is NOT providing dual-voltage EVSEs with Leafs sold over here. To do so will destroy a part that costs as much as $1,000 to replace and WILL NOT be covered under warranty. On the contrary, Nissan is wise to this practice and have specifically advised dealers to look for telltale damage. Even though the plugs are different for 120 and 240 volt, that has not stopped a few Leafers from attempting this using adapters and even improper wiring, and blowing up their EVSEs.

In PlugShare, if you want to see public charging stations (and not those at someone's home), deselect "Residential Chargers." If the Leaf you get does not have a Quick Charge port, you can also deselect "High Power Stations." If it does have QC, go into the settings (for the web version, it's the "cog" icon next to the search field) and deselect anything with Tesla in the name. Nissan subscribes to the CHAdeMO quick charging standard.

For 208/240 volt charging, you'll want to see "J1772" in the description. That is the standard being used for EVs being sold today in North America. There are a few legacy chargers still installed, like the "paddle" chargers that the GM EV-1 used to use, and those will not work with the Leaf.

On 120 volt charging: at this voltage, the Leaf draws 12 amps. That means you will need a properly grounded outlet on a circuit with at least a 15 amp capacity that is not shared with anything else, especially high-current appliances like refrigerators and air conditioners.
Last edited by RonDawg on Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar on 11/21/2015 at 26,435 miles.
Lease returned on 12/23/2015. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL

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planet4ever
Posts: 4674
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Delivery Date: 02 May 2011
Leaf Number: 1537
Location: Morgan Hill, CA, south of San Jose

Re: Talk to me about charging/EVSE and charging stations

Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:48 am

Wow! I'm going to have to jump in here, and unfortunately I'm going to start by taking sides. lifeincolor, I think you should give LeftieBiker's comments more credence than Wennfred's. Insisting on calling EVSE's chargers does muddy the waters, especially when we are talking about how long it takes to charge. And some of Wennfred's numbers are questionable.

On the other hand, some of his points are good. A key point he made is that, for an EV, speed kills range. Your proposed 88 mile trip with 4 hours of trickle charging is possible, but not if you try to drive 65-70 mph. And LEAF batteries, like all batteries, do wear out. It may not be possible four years from now without holding your speed down to 50 mph. Rain is also a problem, and you get a lot of that. Wennfred is right that if you were to get an EVSE Upgrade for your trickle charge cord, and if your friend had an electric dryer outlet in the garage, this would become an easy trip. You can get adapters for whichever type of plug is in the house.

The really big thing you have going for you is that you are located near one of the densest concentration of Quick Charge stations in the nation. Do be sure to get the Quick Charge port. It comes standard on the SL model, is an added cost on the S and SV models. As Leftie said, it has to be built into the car; it can't be added later.

If you have the QC port you will also have the faster charger in the car. This not terribly important at home, as even the "slower" type of 240v (L2) charging can easily charge the car from empty to full overnight. But if you should run low on the road, and not be close to a QC station, the faster charger will fill your battery at 25%-30% per hour. The slower one in the base S model and the 2011/2012 cars only give you about 15% per hour. Note that the QC gives you more like 70% in half an hour.

It is important to note that the faster on-board charger does not speed up charging at L1.

Finally, let me emphasize one of my first points. Tell your husband you will not run out of power with your two girls in the car and be stranded. Here is what will happen instead. You may be 15 miles from home and get a "low battery" warning. No problem. Get off the freeway if you are on it. Slow to 35 mph. You will make it home. It will take you 10 minutes longer than you expected, but that is very unlikely to be a catastrophe. Speed kills range. Low speed buys range. It's that simple.

Ray
End of April 2013: Traded my 2011 SL for a 2013 S with charge pkg.

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DNAinaGoodWay
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Leaf Number: 23156
Location: Central Massachusetts

Re: Talk to me about charging/EVSE and charging stations

Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:49 am

lifeincolor wrote:We went and test drove the Leaf SL today, I love it, my husband still wants us to go look at the Volt. He is so scared I'll run out of power with our two girls in the car and be stranded. I think a little planning is all it will take (and I don't like the thought of only have four seats on the Volt!). I downloaded the PlugShare app, as the dealer recommended, to play around with and think it's pretty neat. But I am totally confused about all the abbreviations and types of charging stations. I also don't really understand how much I can charge say, when I'm visiting friends and just plug into their regular power (120?) with the charger in the trunk. Can someone explain to me the different charging stations/type/brands, how they work and how long they take. Or point me to a site that has this info in an easy to understand format? Thank you so much!


Hi lifeincolor. You're doing the right thing by researching as much as you can, to really understand what you'll need to do to drive an EV, and put your husband's fears to rest. You can do it. :D

You live in one of the best areas of the country for driving a LEAF. Look at all the green and orange in Portland on your Plugshare app! OMG! We don't have any orange at all here. When I drive 50 miles into Boston, I have to find a green one (EV plug, means 240 volt, Level 2 charger) and plug in for 2-3 hours to ensure I can get home, and my 2012 SL charges at half the speed a 2013 does at 240 volts. But with the orange ones (CHAdeMO, 440 volt DC Quick Chargers), and so many of them!!!, you're free to move around the cabin! So, Portland is not a problem.

See, you're already more conscious about your driving. :P

The friend's house, 88 miles round trip, is another matter. L1, or 120 volt charging will still only get you about 4 miles worth of charge per hour, even in a 2013, so you need to plan. You could: leave home fully charged and hang out there for five hours on 120, or look for an orange quick charger on your route and get the kids a snack while you charge for 20 minutes. ;) a healthy snack.

The EVSE upgrade is good if a 240 outlet is within reach.

You'll want a 240 unit at home too, where you'll do most of your refueling. Best of all, your electric costs are dirt cheap in OR.

I looked at the Volt too, and it's good for what it is, but the back seats are pretty tight.

Good luck to you.
'12 SL last reading @ 2 yr, 22k, 260 GIDs, 62.35 Ahr

'15 SV w/QC, Mfd 5/14, Leased 8/14, 292 GIDs, 64.38 Ahr when new
@ 36 months, 34k, 270 GID, 57.49 Ahr

'17 Bolt LT



6.72 kW Array

LeftieBiker
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Re: Talk to me about charging/EVSE and charging stations

Sun Oct 20, 2013 4:07 am

Now at least I can stop grumbling over the detailed post this site's server ate! The only quibble I have with the two excellent posts above is that I seem to get 5% per hour on L-1, with my 2013 SV. That may be because I'm close to the hydro plant that supplies my power, though. Sometimes the car is charged an hour earlier than I expected.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium and no QC, a 2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, and 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

cwerdna
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Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Talk to me about charging/EVSE and charging stations

Sun Oct 20, 2013 4:57 am

^^^
As for eaten posts, I often (but not always) copy and paste what I'm writing into notepad as I go along, just in case something goes awry.

This site goes down around 1 am or 1:10 am Pacific time each day for backups.
planet4ever wrote:Wow! I'm going to have to jump in here, and unfortunately I'm going to start by taking sides. lifeincolor, I think you should give LeftieBiker's comments more credence than Wennfred's. Insisting on calling EVSE's chargers does muddy the waters, especially when we are talking about how long it takes to charge. And some of Wennfred's numbers are questionable.

Yep, Wennfred, please get the terminology straight and stop using the words "charger" when you actually mean EVSE. See diagram at viewtopic.php?p=262630#p262630.

For L1 and L2 AC charging over J1772, the charger is on-board the car under the hood, part of the PDM stack. In almost every case where you said "charger", you meant EVSE. (On '11 and '12 Leafs, the on-board charger is in the back, under the plastic hump behind the seats.)

Perpetuating the wrong terminology can lead to confusion down the road, wasting money or buying the wrong vehicle, equipment or options/equipment level.

viewtopic.php?p=301972#p301972 has a table of charging rates. How quickly one can charge is influenced by many factors such as the max input/output of the on-board charger, max output of the EVSE, line voltage, etc.

As an FYI for the OP, the '13 Leaf SL and SV (and S w/quick charge package) have 6 kW on-board chargers, while the base S has only a 3.3 kW OBC. '11 and '12 Leafs only have 3.3 kW OBCs.
planet4ever wrote:It is important to note that the faster on-board charger does not speed up charging at L1.

Yep. 6 kW OBC won't help w/making 120 volt charging any faster as the car only draws about ~1.3 or ~1.4 kW at 120 volts.
Last edited by cwerdna on Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

KJD
Posts: 1348
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Re: Talk to me about charging/EVSE and charging stations

Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:55 am

lifeincolor wrote:I really don't go far that often and I am looking forward to the leaf forcing me to think about where I am driving and why. I'm already trying to bike my girls around as much as possible. I only drive about 9,000 miles a year now, so I think I can make the leaf work as long as I understand that charging times/options and plan my trips. I love the idea of supporting this technology!

When I put the bike in the back of the LEAF I tell everyone I now have a range extended electric vehicle.

There are hitch kits for the LEAF and then you can add a bike rack easily.
2012 SL Delivered 12/08/2011
Sold 05/12/2015
2012 Tesla Model S 85

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