estomax
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:23 pm
Delivery Date: 21 Jan 2017
Location: Seattle

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:15 am

are the 30 kwh battery cells the same dimension as the 24 kwh? just more dense? interesting.
2013 Leaf SL Premium
27k, 93% SoH, 2/17
32k, 96% SoH, 6/17
37k, 92% SoH, 9/17

camasleaf
Posts: 611
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 5:20 am
Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2011
Location: Camas, WA

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:22 pm

rmay635703 wrote:Cor normally takes raw cells from for example a 30kwhr battery and reshells it into the old battery with the existing electronics.

So the car wouldn't know the difference and since the min max voltage on 30kw batteries is the same the car will just think it has lots of capacity past low battery


I say on an earlier post that the "electronics in the 30kWh are incompatible with 24kWh". Has this 30 to 24 transplant been done? Are L2 and quick charging working fine?
2011 SLe 06/17/11 Over 76000 miles 71%SOH 15.7kWh
2015 SV 09/02/14, Over 36000 miles soon to be returned for a 2018
5.7kW DC System

baustin
Posts: 527
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:23 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2015
Leaf Number: 402162
Location: North Las Vegas, NV

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:37 am

camasleaf wrote:
rmay635703 wrote:Cor normally takes raw cells from for example a 30kwhr battery and reshells it into the old battery with the existing electronics.

So the car wouldn't know the difference and since the min max voltage on 30kw batteries is the same the car will just think it has lots of capacity past low battery


I say on an earlier post that the "electronics in the 30kWh are incompatible with 24kWh". Has this 30 to 24 transplant been done? Are L2 and quick charging working fine?


Swapping the cells from the new battery to the old shell gets around the compatibility issue by using the existing BMS and the existing wiring between the battery case and the vehicle. The BMS will learn the capacity of the new cells and adjust accordingly. Actually doing this will require an intact, undamaged 30kWh pack from a wrecked Leaf containing one. It may be a while before we see a report of it being done.
2013 Leaf SV - Cayenne Red - QC Port - LED Headlights

jkenny23
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:49 pm
Delivery Date: 19 Sep 2017
Leaf Number: 009318

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:44 pm

Thanks Cor for my successful module swap (2013 pack at 92% into a 2011 Leaf, replacing a 44% SOH pack). Ran it down to VLBW today since I wasn't too sure what the real state of charge was, and quick charged it up to 71% (per the readout on the CHAdeMO station, the car's BMS thought it was at 92.5% at end of charge), pack temps didn't exceed 79 F. Probably shouldn't have abused the new pack that much, but I'm sure it will hold up fine, cell voltage was still around 3.7 when I got to the QC with "---" on the GOM.

I'll keep you all updated on how long it takes for the battery gauge to figure out the new pack, still reads 5 bars at the moment.

RNM
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:11 am
Delivery Date: 05 Mar 2016
Leaf Number: 012707

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:49 am

baustin wrote:Swapping the cells from the new battery to the old shell gets around the compatibility issue by using the existing BMS and the existing wiring between the battery case and the vehicle. The BMS will learn the capacity of the new cells and adjust accordingly. Actually doing this will require an intact, undamaged 30kWh pack from a wrecked Leaf containing one. It may be a while before we see a report of it being done.


Since the 24 and 30 kWh discharge curves are different, I not sure that the LBC "will learn the capacity of the new cells and adjust accordingly".

If anyone has PROOF, that would be awesome!

RNM
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:11 am
Delivery Date: 05 Mar 2016
Leaf Number: 012707

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:53 am

estomax wrote:are the 30 kwh battery cells the same dimension as the 24 kwh? just more dense? interesting.


Dimensionally, 1x 30 kWh module equals 2x 24 kWh modules

Image

estomax
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:23 pm
Delivery Date: 21 Jan 2017
Location: Seattle

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:39 am

RNM wrote:
estomax wrote:are the 30 kwh battery cells the same dimension as the 24 kwh? just more dense? interesting.


Dimensionally, 1x 30 kWh module equals 2x 24 kWh modules

Image


how many wh are the 24 kwh modules? 500wh then to make the attached photo you put make sense? and are the 24 kwh modules always double stacked so the 30 would drop in place of them in most cases?

cheers
Marko
2013 Leaf SL Premium
27k, 93% SoH, 2/17
32k, 96% SoH, 6/17
37k, 92% SoH, 9/17

Cor
Posts: 158
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:53 am
Delivery Date: 07 Jul 2015

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:37 pm

estomax wrote:how many wh are the 24 kwh modules? 500wh then to make the attached photo you put make sense? and are the 24 kwh modules always double stacked so the 30 would drop in place of them in most cases?

Hi Marko,
Yes, the 24kWh modules actually have the text 500Wh printed on them and yes, they are always stacked in even numbers,
that is why the 30kWh pack could combine two of them to increase usable volume and eliminate space that the enclosure uses.
The 24kWh pack has two front stacks of 12 modules each and one rear stack of 24 modules.
Both front stacks have the modules laying flat with terminals pointing to the center line of the pack (and car), from front to back its height is 4 modules, 4 modules, 2 modules and 2 modules. The 4-high is below the front seat, the 2-high is under the rear footwell.
The rear stack is a single row of 24 modules stacked all on top of each other laying sideways with the terminals pointing forward.
As far as I can judge, the 30kWh pack modules were designed to replace the old modules in pairs.
JKenny23 has shot a timelapse of the pack refurbishment last weekend, I will let him do the honors of posting his video.
This may clarify a lot of questions about the layout of the pack. Note that this refurbishment is putting newer 24kWh modules into a 2011.
But I see no reason why modules from a 30kWh pack should be a problem,
other than getting your hands on those modules.

RNM
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:11 am
Delivery Date: 05 Mar 2016
Leaf Number: 012707

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:59 pm

Cor wrote:But I see no reason why modules from a 30kWh pack should be a problem,
other than getting your hands on those modules.

Different discharge curve is a potential problem.
If the LBC doesn't adjust to that it's very good.

Cor
Posts: 158
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:53 am
Delivery Date: 07 Jul 2015

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:17 pm

RNM wrote:Different discharge curve is a potential problem.
If the LBC doesn't adjust to that it's very good.

I think you meant to say that if the LBC *does* adjust (to the larger capacity) then that is good.
As far as I know, the 30kWh pack is the same chemistry as the 24 kWh version, so I do not expect a radical different discharge profile,
just larger capacity and the LBC *has to* adjust capacity, because it needs to be able to follow the degradation of the pack, adjusting for ever smaller capacity and I have seen in the Leafs that received a new battery pack without changing the LBC, that in a matter of weeks the capacity estimation grew to (close to) the capacity of the new installed pack and based on that, the Guess-o-Meter also increased the estimated range.
So, installing a 30kWh pack into an old Leaf will simply cause the LBC to adjust its capacity even higher, presuming that there is no artificial limit in the Software of the LBC that would prevent it from going higher than (say) 67 Ah and it can adjust up to 80 Ah capacity.

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