Official Plug-In 2010 Conference thread

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evnow

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This is the thread for all the Plug-in 2010 conference related news & information.

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Place : San Jose, CA

Date : 26-28 July, 27th is the public evening

Official Site : http://www.plugin2010.com

Facebook : http://www.facebook.com/pages/Plug-In-2010/196501228868

Exhibitors : http://www.plugin2010.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8&Itemid=7

Who is there : GM, Nissan, Toyota, Think, AV, Ecotality, Coulomb, Leviton etc
Who is Missing : Ford, Honda, BYD, Coda, Mitsubishi, European and other Asian car makers ...

Article in evworld : http://evworld.com/blogs/index.cfm?authorid=144&blogid=889&archive=1
 
You can go to the public event for $10 ...

BTW, here is something interesting about what they consider media ...

Credentialed media may attend and cover all aspects of Plug-In 2010, free of charge. To qualify for a credential, you must provide verification that you meet one of the following criteria:

•Represent a commercial newspaper or magazine funded by subscription or paid advertising. Internal organization publications do not qualify.
•Represent a broadcast media outlet.
•Represent a news service (i.e. wire service).
•Represent a website that reports original news content on automotive, environmental or related issues.

Freelance writers must demonstrate an assignment to do a specific story for a specific publication or outlet.
 
<Crumbles> I paid the $10 bucks.

Some pics are posted up on my flickr here (Note: I was more interested in looking at the chargers) : http://www.flickr.com/photos/43375161@N00/

Overall, the event was pretty packed. Lots of interest from the general public. Lots of vendors ranging from the proto cars to charging infrastructure providers to consortias. I spent most of my time looking at the charging systems instead of the other EVs. having said that, there was the Mitsu MiEV, the Smart Fortwo plug-in, Ford Focus plug-in and a Ford Escape Plug-In Hybrid, etc etc.

The Leaf, for the first time that I have seen did not have the ropes around it. The staff were fending off the general public and people were told not to put their hands on it. How silly is that? If they don't want fingerprints on the car, they should just rope it.

Nobody gave out any charging infrastructure pricing except the Blink folks. The Blink L2 system costs $1195. Ouch!

Plugless Power had an interesting touchless charging system. BTCPower had a L3 public charging terminal with POS integration which I think was interesting.
 
mxp said:
I spent most of my time looking at the charging systems instead of the other EVs.

Ditto at the D.C. auto show. I know I gave more time to the various chargers on display than I did to most of the cars with the exception of the Volt and the LEAF.

mxp said:
The Leaf, for the first time that I have seen did not have the ropes around it.

Well, that one back in February / March was their multi-million dollar prototype; I can understand why they had it roped off. What you have there at plugin America I think is more of a real deal, or at least a more refined prototype and the one @NissanLEAF has been pimping to celebrities on Twitter.

Honestly the LEAF did not get the traffic it deserved, at least while I was there. Of course, I came after 5pm so it may have been busier if there were some engineers or Mark Perry might have been around earlier.

I've got my D.C. 2010 Auto Show on my Facebook if anyone's curious or my public Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/timehorse/sets/72157624476528257/
 
A normally-wired 3-prong (old type) dryer socket has a neutral, not a ground.

However the neutral wire is connected to the "ground" back at the main service panel. The dryer neutral may carry substantial current, so it might be substantially "above" ground. The ground is for "safety", only meant to carry "emergency" currents.

So, they are almost the same, but not "legally" the same.

If a ground breaks somewhere, just the "safety" is lost. However, if the neutral "return" breaks, the "neutral" can become shockingly "hot".
 
Misc. tidbits gathered from the show last night. (2 hours wasn't enough time for the public!!!)

Chargers: There were several vendors at the show. I spent half of the time talking and listening to them.
Leviton charger is now my favorite. They have both a level 1 portable 7/12amp J1772, cat. no. EVK02-00M to be able to take to a friends house or wherever to charge. They also have a self-install level 2, 24amp w/J1772, cat. no. EV03-00D that can be self-installed by plugging right into a dryer or oven existing plug! Also have a 32amp, cat. no. EV05-00D. The prices aren't disclosed yet, but they told me it will be less than $800.00 L2 (can you say bye bye AV?). This is the one I'll be getting.

Blink charger: Level 2 charger, like the Mercedes of chargers with digital readouts and menus cost over $1100 not including installation.

Chargepoint charger by Coulomb, too expensive, I believe it was over $3,000 for a level 2 not including installation.

Liberty charger: Mainly for public sale, as it is a metered charger, like a parking meter. But you could buy one and let the public use it and make money off it. Great if you live in a busy downtown environment.

Schneider Electric charger: Their unit is J1772 level 2. Price isn't disclosed, but it will be less than $800 not including installation. They are my second favorite.

AV chargers: The EVSE evaluation pricing is too high for my tastes. After going to the show and talking to them, it seems they are charging prices with an average fee structuring. So, even if you have an easy install, the 1-2 hour cost of labor works out to $300-600 per hour. Seems there won't be any installs less than $2,000. That's just plain crazy.
If I'd gone to the show before my evaluation by AV, as well as read the threads about costs with AV, I wouldn't have paid for the evaluation. I'll probably by a Leviton or Schneider charger.

Cars at the show: IMEV was there. I was able to sit in it. I'm 6'2" as this car isn't going to cut it. Seats were totally uncomfortable.

Volt: I spent the least amount of time there. 40 miles on electric power (15-20 miles on freeway) 4 cyl, 1.4 ltr generator motor feeds power back into the 16 kw battery pack as needed. But the battery management system only uses max 8 kw of the entire pack to protect the battery pack. Approx. 300 mile range.

Smart EV: top speed 65 mph. Heard this info and moved on.

Nissan Leaf: Public couldn't sit in the vehicle. Fit and finish is superb. Navigation is automatically updated by Nissan, no extra charge, periodically (no monthly fee). Size of nav screen is the same in both models, 7". Type of tires-Bidgestone Ecopia. No spare tire-canister refill. Battery warranty-8yr, 100k miles. Battery tech said they don't want people to keep topping off the battery pack. It can shorten the life of the pack. He said to use the vehicle like an ice and refill when low, say 15-20 percent. L1, L2, and L3 included in both the SV and SL models. It isn't necessary to buy a charger to get the car. Buyers opting-out will have to sign a disclosure about not purchasing a charger. Most sales will the the SL model. Test drives in October. Cargo cover is an option in the SV. Solar panel doesn't really feed much power back into the system. There was no confirmation of the 4,000 vehicles in the first release. Leaf reps indicated that it is best to purchase from a Nissan dealer that has a lot of deposits. They will be the dealerships that get the most vehicles for sale.

SPAL cooling fans: They are the fans that NASCAR uses. Brushless or brush motors are completely sealed units. Brushless 30,000 hour lifespan, brush 12-15,000 hour lifespan. Cost: example 16" brushless $160.00. They had a fan and motor running completely underwater.

I was really rushed to go through the show in 1 hour 30 minutes so I didn't get any really technical info, sorry.
 
Why was Best Buy at the conference? Are they installing chargers in their parking lots? or Are they going to be selling home chargers?
 
I wasn't at the show, so I don't know the details of Best Buy at Plug-In, but Best Buy does sell electric motorcycles and electric bikes and such at some of their stores...so it could be just that or that they might add plug in parking spaces...it would make sense for a company selling electric motorcycles

There WAS also some mention of Best Buy selling the Aptera when it came out...but I don't know where that stands...but it does seem that Best Buy might get into the small electric car business at some point....

I hope it is the TW4XP... :)

Gavin
 
Unofficial Leaf curb weight: approx 3600 lbs per the reps.

Also, Remy electric motors was there. They are the supplier to Aptera, the 3 wheel EV vehicle that will probably never be made. I waited 2.5 years with a deposit to purchase it, ending in total disappointment.
 
gasmiser1 said:
Azrich said:
Why was Best Buy at the conference? Are they installing chargers in their parking lots? or Are they going to be selling home chargers?
I'm not sure. There was so much to see at the show, I never made it over to the booth. Anyone have an idea?

According to some articles (I may have posted some here as well), BB is very interested in EVs. They will sell EVSE and may also sell some EVs. They look at this as an extension of their current electronics offering ...
 
garygid said:
The Level 3 is included in all SV and SL models!
That is the first such statement.
Cool, and Hot!
I thought that L3 was an option, and you had to get SL to even be able to get that option. This is a very important point. Which is it???
 
And yet we had a dealer hear just the opposite in a training meeting last week. So either....

a) Nissan has changed it's mind (again).
b) Nissan rep at the show is wrong.
c) Nissan rep doing the training last week is wrong.
d) Dealer being trained misheard or misunderstood.

GAK! :shock:
 
I suspect that few LEAFs will have L3 "included" until the USA's Level 3 standard is sufficiently decided.

Standards people ... please, get on with it. And only "invent" when it is REALLY necessary.
 
Azrich said:
Why was Best Buy at the conference? Are they installing chargers in their parking lots? or Are they going to be selling home chargers?

A Nissan rep near the open battery display told me that I'd be able to buy an EVSE at Best Buy. He also mentioned that they surveyed most of the EVSE manufacturers before choosing AV (IMHO could have been for installation logistics reasons rather than particular cost or technical merit of the EVSE itself).
 
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