The I-5 EV corridor

I live about 30 miles East of Redding CA. Since I placed my reservation on 4/20, and as more and more questions about the LEAF have been satisfactorily answered, I really need only one question answered to make my purchase decision.

When will widespread roadside Level 3 infrastructure be developed? Or at least level 2?

I know many plan to use their LEAF as a "local" driver, but for me, the car's utility will be limited if I can't recharge once or twice to make the occasional drive to the SF Bay Area. And I sure hope that, in a few years, I'll be able to drive East to Reno.

Early in the LEAF roll-out, I expected I-5 from San Diego to Seattle to be the first freeway corridor to have 100 mile range EV capability. I also think that when this occurs, much of the "range anxiety" hysteria of new car buyers will fade, as they realize that they can drive more than 50 miles from their garage without fear. But today, I'm siting in the middle of the I-5 Sacramento to Oregon border gap, and no real indication that charging stations are on the way.

I'm waiting for a call back from PG&E for more info. Does anyone know:

Is the L 3 Vacaville charger is open to public? Any more planned?

The existing PG&E L 2 chargers, In Red Bluff and elsewhere, are they or will they soon be available to the EV driving public?

Those who have CARWINGS enabled-anything showing On I-5 from Sacramento north to Oregon?

i would guess that each locality will have a different roll out schedule. in WA, we have state cooperating with additional revenue and L3 stations so we can EV from North to South by summer/2011. not sure what the east-west options are but there was a solar powered EV charging station (12 L2 stations) setup almost halfway across the southern half of the state

edatoakrun said:

Those who have CARWINGS enabled-anything showing On I-5 from Sacramento north to Oregon?

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From everything I have heard, you are talking about the one section of I-5 not accounted for so far. The Oregon/Washington corridor should be deployed by June of 2011 as part of the EV Project. Contacts and information can be found here though: http://www.westcoastgreenhighway.com/

Level II on your 230+ miles to SanFrancisco is not 100% practical. You really need Level III (DC-QC, or DCQ).

The Vacaville DCQ was running on Saturday (12/11). If I had had my LEAF I could probably have used it. My prior visits there showed it was turned off and that a "key" was needed to use it. I have a strong interest in getting that one to work, so I will update here when I find out more.

There's a Tesla Clipper Creek in Orland. 240V/70A ! But that doesn't do LEAF drivers any good beyond 3.3kW even after it gets changed to standard J1772 (and I don't know when that will happen).

There's a Level II J1772 (real LEAF-compatible) in Woodland. And there will very soon be J1772's on the I-80 between Sacramento & SanFrancisco (let us know what you find out from PG&E).

"From everything I have heard, you are talking about the one section of I-5 not accounted for so far."

Agreed. And i'm not surprised, as North California is the least-populated stretch.

BTW, I forgot to mention earlier, I Dropped by Shasta Nissan (Redding) last week, the only dealer located on this section of I-5. They are supposed to be LEAF certified, but I was told it might be 3-4 months before they get chargers-presumable L 2. I may be driving my LEAF home from Petaluma by way of Sacramento-Chico on L 2 if no I-5 stations charge up before delivery day.

Thanks for the link

I spoke to a PG&E rep a few weeks ago. He said he expects the Vacaville CHAdeMO DC charger (photo in story link below) and the level 2 chargers in Orland and Red Bluff (once converted to J1772) to be available to LEAF drivers, by sometime this Spring.

"One major hurdle to the widespread adoption of electric vehicles is the time needed to recharge them. So-called quick chargers that do the job in about 30 minutes address that problem, but one major obstacle to the widespread adoption of quick chargers is the lack of a standardized plug.

That may soon change.

Earlier this year the Japanese embraced a standard plug they call CHAdeMO. Now it appears the United States may follow suit. According to a report in Yomiuri Shimbun, the United States (presumably through the Department of Energy) will install 310 CHAdeMO-equipped quick-chargers in Arizona, California, Texas, Tennessee, Oregon and Washington."

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/12/u-s-looks-to-japan-for-ev-quick-charge-plug/

Crown Motors Nissan in Redding has got 2 public level 2 chargers installed.

They are accessible 24 hours, and only a mile or so West of I-5. These are about 70 miles from Chico Nissan's level 2 chargers, so if any of you guys want to take a road trip north...

It's a great relief for me to see the them actually installed, as I was expecting them to be months away. According to the dealership, they're "virgins" as no one around here has actually got a car to plug into them, yet.

The dealership is in a commercial area, but restaurants, the library , and multiplex theatre are walking distance, within a half-mile or so, if you need to kill some time.

Good to know. It does seem knowing where the dealers are is our best bet for charging for now until a network is established.

Does a CARWINGS-connected LEAF, using an EVSE, enter that "charging-location" into CARWINGS?

Probably not, otherwise your home would be listed as an e-station.

Any time you charge up the location is put into your CarWings, but not the shared data base. That way you have a history of everywhere you have charged up in case you want to use it again.

Question though - aren't we supposed to limit ourselves to one quick charge per day max? So really, you're looking at a max of 180 miles per day.

Assuming level 2 for 8 hours, 100 miles of driving, level 3 for 30 minutes, 80 miles of driving. Next charge would have to be level 2 for battery life, leaving you at 8 more hours until you could drive again.

A string of Level 3 chargers along a freeway, spaced 80 miles apart would destroy the battery pack with that kind of cycling...

Here on the east coast they've had the "autotrain" for years. I wonder if EVs could increase the popularity of that approach.

driveleaf said:

Question though - aren't we supposed to limit ourselves to one quick charge per day max? So really, you're looking at a max of 180 miles per day.

Assuming level 2 for 8 hours, 100 miles of driving, level 3 for 30 minutes, 80 miles of driving. Next charge would have to be level 2 for battery life, leaving you at 8 more hours until you could drive again.

A string of Level 3 chargers along a freeway, spaced 80 miles apart would destroy the battery pack with that kind of cycling...

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I wondered the same thing: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1202. Most who responded gave me the impression it was fine to charge multiple times now and then, as long as you don't do it regularly. I might feel like an EV road trip once a year.

When it's time to replace my batteries, maybe I can buy some A123s.
http://green.autoblog.com/2011/01/04/mit-electric-vehicle-tests-rapid-charging-battery/

In one test, they took an A123 cell and performed an automated 1,500 rapid charge-discharge cycles. After the torture was over, the battery had lost less than 10 percent of its original capacity. If that translates over to real-world longevity, it could be significantly better than the Nissan Leaf's expected battery life. Recall, Nissan says it expects 70 to 80 percent capacity after 10 years.

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walterbays said:

driveleaf said:

Question though - aren't we supposed to limit ourselves to one quick charge per day max? So really, you're looking at a max of 180 miles per day.

Assuming level 2 for 8 hours, 100 miles of driving, level 3 for 30 minutes, 80 miles of driving. Next charge would have to be level 2 for battery life, leaving you at 8 more hours until you could drive again.

A string of Level 3 chargers along a freeway, spaced 80 miles apart would destroy the battery pack with that kind of cycling...

Click to expand...

I wondered the same thing: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1202. Most who responded gave me the impression it was fine to charge multiple times now and then, as long as you don't do it regularly. I might feel like an EV road trip once a year.

When it's time to replace my batteries, maybe I can buy some A123s.
http://green.autoblog.com/2011/01/04/mit-electric-vehicle-tests-rapid-charging-battery/

In one test, they took an A123 cell and performed an automated 1,500 rapid charge-discharge cycles. After the torture was over, the battery had lost less than 10 percent of its original capacity. If that translates over to real-world longevity, it could be significantly better than the Nissan Leaf's expected battery life. Recall, Nissan says it expects 70 to 80 percent capacity after 10 years.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

One point about the autoblog comment - the A123 numbers are from lab testing/automated charge/discharge cycling, while the Leaf pack info is a very, very conservative warranty number. These numbers should not be compared/contrasted...

A123 does make pouch/laminated cells and they are amazing. They are LiFePO4. One of the chemistry changes/tweaks being tested in the LiFePO4 world is replacing some of the iron with other elements (some use manganese, others yttrium) as the iron degrades first and that has a negative impact on calendar life. The Leaf pack is better for folks driving 40 mile daily commutes while the A123 cells are best for racers...at least today.

If you know more about these or other L2 locations between Vacaville/Sacramento and Redding Nissan, please post.

1) Woodland, vandalized months ago and still down. Clipper Creek has an "update" contract. but that is some months away. Adam at PG&E just called, and may have further info on getting this L2 operational sooner.

2) Orland Ca. Clipper Creek "Tesla" charger at the Berry Patch restaurant is presumably usable for 13 amps, if you have ingineers conversion and proper adapter. If your driving by, take a look , as neither PG&E presently seem to know who operates it, or when it will be upgraded to J 1772.

3) Red bluff. Unknown charger type, unknown operator, at Red Bluff, Hampton Inn & Suites, 520 Adobe Road. I saw it there last June. So if you're driving by...

As I calculate, there is a 102 mile gap between Vacaville and Orland, and a 98 mile gap on the alternate route between Nissan dealerships in Davis (if they or other Sacto area dealerships have L2 installed and open to the public) and Chico. Both problematic ranges, obviously.

You might want to check out PlugShare.
http://www.plugshare.com/#faq

edatoakrun said:

If you know more about these or other L2 locations between Vacaville/Sacramento and Redding Nissan, please post.

...

3) Red bluff. Unknown charger type, unknown operator, at Red Bluff, Hampton Inn & Suites, 520 Adobe Road. I saw it there last June. So if you're driving by...
...

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When I was there two years ago they had a large row of NEMA14-50s for RVs...


(NEMA14-50 on the left TT-30 on the right.)

TEG said:

edatoakrun said:

If you know more about these or other L2 locations between Vacaville/Sacramento and Redding Nissan, please post.

...

3) Red bluff. Unknown charger type, unknown operator, at Red Bluff, Hampton Inn & Suites, 520 Adobe Road. I saw it there last June. So if you're driving by...
...

Click to expand...

When I was there two years ago they had a large row of NEMA14-50s for RVs...

(NEMA14-50 on the left TT-30 on the right.)

Click to expand...

Thanks. when I was there, I saw PG&E EV's parked and charging there, so I assumed...

Do you know if they allow public EV charging there?

It's only about 60 miles from Orland to Redding Nissan, where there are 2 L2 24 hour chargers, but if you get tired of waiting in Orland, you could spend some time in beautiful Red Bluff.

So, Vacaville LIII charger shut down due to non-certification by Underwriters Laboratory. Well planned!

http://blogs.motortrend.com/nissan-leaf-energy-report-one-month-13-gallons-gas-15445.html

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/4092-TEPCO-CHAdeMO-Level-III-quot-quick-quot-charging-station-connector?p=67595

IF that is true, who is requiring it to be UL listed,
and has it even been submitted?