6.6 Kw LEAF Charger

Does anyone know anything about the new 6.6 Kw on-board charger that is an option for the 2013 LEAF? Can it be retrofitted to a 2012 LEAF? How much does the charger and it's installation cost? Are there 3rd party alternatives?

It's a 6.0 kW on-board charger

KeiJidosha said:

It's a 6.0 kW on-board charger

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And no, it can't go in a 2011 or 2012.

The 6.0kW charger is standard, not optional on the SL.

Actually, several places on the Internet (like http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1081547_2013-nissan-leaf-longer-range-faster-charging-leather-seats-and-more-all-the-upgrades" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false list the charger at 6.6 Kw and not 6.0 Kw, but thanks to THREE different replies for correcting me on that.

Regardless of that seemingly minor distinction, I'm interested in whether this larger charger can be a LEAF 2012 upgrade, what is the cost, and are there 3rd party alternatives?

EVDRIVER posted 'No'. So if you want one, you will have to get a 2013. However, you may be able to buy a retrofitted charger from Ingineer.

Here's the aftermarket 6 kW charger Phil (aka Ingineer) demoed at National Plugin Day in SF and the thread, which preceded it.



Click to open

Can someone please explain the Kw ratings on the 2013 LEAF onboard chargers. All the specs I've seen so far list ratings as 3.6 kW (3.3kW Output) for the 2013 S model and 6.6 kW (6.0 kW Output) on the 2013 SV and SL models. The Nissan Rep (not Tim, the other fellow) at the meeting in San Jose on Saturday told me that the 3.6kW on the 2013 S model is better/faster than the charger on the earlier 2011 and 2012 LEAF models. Is this a fact? What is the output on the 2011 onboard charger 3.3kW? 3.0kW? Is there a difference?

Yes, it's possible. No, it's not worth it.

solarman said:

Can someone please explain the Kw ratings on the 2013 LEAF onboard chargers. All the specs I've seen so far list ratings as 3.6 kW (3.3kW Output) for the 2013 S model and 6.6 kW (6.0 kW Output) on the 2013 SV and SL models. The Nissan Rep (not Tim, the other fellow) at the meeting in San Jose on Saturday told me that the 3.6kW on the 2013 S model is better/faster than the charger on the earlier 2011 and 2012 LEAF models. Is this a fact? What is the output on the 2011 onboard charger 3.3kW? 3.0kW? Is there a difference?

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As far as we know, the 3.3kW charger will draw 16 amps for 3.8kW power draw from a 240 volt electrical supply in the USA/Canada. The charger will be exactly the same specification for 2011, 2012 and 2013. That doesn't mean that they are the same manufacturer, as the 2013 LEAF uses a different design and manufacturer.

I suspect that the optional 6.0kW charger is wrongly named for the USA/Canada North America market, since 30 amps at 200 volts (the Japanese standard) = 6.0kW. Commercial USA sites will use 208 volts, making 6.2kW. Residential USA voltage will be 240 volts pulling 7.2kW.

If it is pulling 30 amps at 240 volts, then we have a 7.2kW power draw from the electrical supply, which would equal approximately 6.3kW into the battery. No known J1772-2009 cables are rated for 32 amps in the North American market, making 30 amps the default current draw maximum for the 2013 LEAF.

In summary, 30 amps will draw 6.0kW at 200 volts in Japan and 6.2kW to 7.2kW in North America, depending on commercial or residential voltage service. In the rest of the world using 230 volts, this will be about 6.9kW from the electric supply.

Having said all that, just like the 3.3kW charger that pulls 3.8kW of power (86% of 3.8kW is 3.3kW), any of the above examples may have approximately 90% efficiency. Therefore, a "6.6kw" charger may pull about 7.2kW from "the wall".

Additionally, a 6.0kW charger may pull 6.6kW, however is will be at 27.5 amps at 240 volts. Why is this not probable? Because standards for continuous power through a circuit breaker are subject to a guideline of 80% of their respective rating. Circuit breakers for these types of uses are typically rated at nice even numbers; 10 amps, 15 amps, 20 amps, 30 amps, 40 amps, 50amps, etc.

So, 80% continuous load equals the following:

Circuit ---- 80% continuous
breaker ---- load

10 amps ---- 8 amps
15 amps ---- 12 amps
20 amps ---- 16 amps
30 amps ---- 24 amps
40 amps ---- 32 amps
50 amps ---- 40 amps

Do you see a trend here? The engineers are not going to specify a 27.5 amp unit, unless that was a limit. Ordinarily, they could make 32 amp units, but as I previously stated, there are not 32 amp rated J1772-2009 "nozzles" in the world. So, they make 12 amp, 16 amp, 30 amp, 40 amp, and 75 amp ones. Did you notice that nobody is making a 27.5 amp J1772 nozzle?

At 30 amps, the following applies:

Power -- Voltage -- at 88% efficiency into the battery

7.5kW ---- 250 ---- 6.6kW
7.2kW ---- 240 ---- 6.3kW
6.9kW ---- 230 ---- 6.1kW
6.2kW ---- 208 ---- 5.5kW
6.0kW ---- 200 ---- 5.3kW

kubel said:

Yes, it's possible. No, it's not worth it.

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Yes, but that also depends on your perspective and needs. Phil has not announced availability or pricing for his aftermarket 6 kW charger.

TonyWilliams said:

If it is pulling 30 amps at 240 volts, then we have a 7.2kW power draw from the electrical supply, which would equal approximately 6.6kW into the battery. No known J1772-2009 cables are rated for 32 amps in the North American market, making 30 amps the default current draw maximum.

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Great summary! For what it's worth, the ActiveE allegedly has a 7.2 kW charger, but the highest power draw I have ever witnessed from the wall was 6.5 kW. I believe that other field trial participants fared similarly. I would take manufacturer marketing material or any technical information for consumers with a grain of salt. The effective feed into the battery will depended on a number of factors, with line voltage being the major one, just as was explained in great detail above.

The Rav4's Tesla charger is 40 amps. Therefore, the "10kW" charger is:

Power -- Voltage -- at 88% efficiency into the battery
11kW ---- 277 ---- 9.7kW (the maximum voltage that the charger can accept)
10kW ---- 250 ---- 8.8kW (hey, it just happened to be 10kW)
9.6kW --- 240 ---- 8.4kW (typical residential power in North America)
9.2kW --- 230 ---- 8.1kW (typical voltage in the rest of the world)
8.3kW --- 208 ---- 7.3kW (typical voltage at a public charge station in North America)
8.0kW --- 200 ---- 7.0kW (typical voltage in Japan)

So, like always, it's wise to specify exactly what you're referring to.

TonyWilliams said:

...I suspect that the optional 6.0kW charger is wrongly named for the North America market, since 30 amps at 200 volts (the Japanese standard) = 6.0kW. Commercial USA sites will use 208 volts, making 6.2kW...

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I also think this might be the case. I hope for future LEAF owners sake that the 6.0kW spec is an oversight, and that the new on-board charger actually pulls 30 amps at 240 volts and can deliver 6.6kW. My concern comes from Ingineer’s picture below of the dash that shows time to fully charge where the 6kW number is only 25% less than the 3kW number. Clarification from Nissan would save a lot of angst.

I assume the 6.0 charge will not benefit during the top 20% to 40% of capacity.

smkettner said:

I assume the 6.0 charge will not benefit during the top 20% to 40% of capacity.

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Oh, I doubt that the charger will stop slowing down that soon. I'd guess above 90% is when the amps start getting reduced during the charge.

iamchemist said:

Does anyone know anything about the new 6.6 Kw on-board charger that is an option for the 2013 LEAF? Can it be retrofitted to a 2012 LEAF?

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EVDRIVER correctly answered "no" on the retrofit, but a bit of explanation might help. The charger in the 2011-2012 is a stand-alone unit located in the hump behind the rear seat. The 2013 charger, both the 3.3kW and the 6kW unit, is located under the hood as part of an integrated power stack along with the inverter and motor. All parts of that unit are water cooled using a single integrated cooling system, so none of them could stand alone. This means that the only possible way to use the 6kW unit in a 2011 or 2012 would appear to be to gut nearly everything under the hood and replace it with what goes there in the 2013. (Even the layout of other components has been changed.) This would be extremely expensive.

Ray

I wonder if Phil's add-on 3.3kW charger can be used with the new 6.0kW charger?.. you would end up with a total 9.3kW charge.

Herm said:

I wonder if Phil's add-on 3.3kW charger can be used with the new 6.0kW charger?.. you would end up with a total 9.3kW charge.

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Maybe. I have no doubt that Phil could connect it into the MY'13 systems but I don't know if it would actually do anything. I understand that the Leaf BMS actually requests charging higher than 3.3KW on the CAN bus. The main charger supplies 3.3KW and Phil's charger supplies up to another 3.3KW, totaling up to what the BMS requests. The question is how high does the request from the BMS go? If it only goes to 6.6KW, Phil's charger will sit there doing nothing.

Phil- at least on the MY'11 and '12, how high does the BMS charge request go? I'd assume the MY'13 does the same.

DoxyLover said:

Herm said:

I wonder if Phil's add-on 3.3kW charger can be used with the new 6.0kW charger?.. you would end up with a total 9.3kW charge.

Click to expand...

Maybe. I have no doubt that Phil could connect it into the MY'13 systems but I don't know if it would actually do anything. I understand that the Leaf BMS actually requests charging higher than 3.3KW on the CAN bus. The main charger supplies 3.3KW and Phil's charger supplies up to another 3.3KW, totaling up to what the BMS requests. The question is how high does the request from the BMS go? If it only goes to 6.6KW, Phil's charger will sit there doing nothing.

Phil- at least on the MY'11 and '12, how high does the BMS charge request go? I'd assume the MY'13 does the same.

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The BMS does not request charging. You can dump whatever you want into the pack and the BMS will regulate it as needed. As long as the similar connections are there in the 2013 LEAF and they can handle more current, charging can be added up to that limit of the connections.

EVDRIVER said:

DoxyLover said:

Herm said:

I wonder if Phil's add-on 3.3kW charger can be used with the new 6.0kW charger?.. you would end up with a total 9.3kW charge.

Click to expand...

Maybe. I have no doubt that Phil could connect it into the MY'13 systems but I don't know if it would actually do anything. I understand that the Leaf BMS actually requests charging higher than 3.3KW on the CAN bus. The main charger supplies 3.3KW and Phil's charger supplies up to another 3.3KW, totaling up to what the BMS requests. The question is how high does the request from the BMS go? If it only goes to 6.6KW, Phil's charger will sit there doing nothing.

Phil- at least on the MY'11 and '12, how high does the BMS charge request go? I'd assume the MY'13 does the same.

Click to expand...

The BMS does not request charging. You can dump whatever you want into the pack and the BMS will regulate it as needed. As long as the similar connections are there in the 2013 LEAF and they can handle more current, charging can be added up to that limit of the connections.

Click to expand...

That's not how I understood from Phil, but maybe I misunderstood him.

In any case, the question is if the BMS will pass more than 6.6KW to the battery, other than in a QC setup. QC seems to be different since the BMS does tell the QC station how much power to send.