Just lost 2nd bar today

Hey everyone,

I bought a used 2011 LEAF SL w/QC on 9/1/14. It had 11 capacity bars, and 23,800 miles on it. I've had it for about 6 weeks, now have 25,200 miles on it, and just lost the second battery capacity bar today - 10/16/14. I find it interesting, as I took it in on 10/10/14 for a battery inspection and was given 5 stars, yet less than a week after that inspection I lose a capacity bar. Should I be concerned? Should I contact the dealership? Is this normal behavior to be down to 10 bars after only 25k miles and about 40 months since the car was manufactured? The original owner was in Santa Monica, CA and it's now in Monterey, CA - both pretty temperate climates. Nothing like Phoneix, AZ! Would love any advice you guys can offer.

Thanks!

It's too hard to tell on a car we have no real history on. Just 'cause the original owner lived in Santa Monica doesn't mean that's where the car sat during the day in summer heat - we have micro climates that differ greatly throughout the LA basin.

That said, loosing two bars at under 26,000 miles does seem a bit premature. I lost bar 12 at 30,000 miles and bar 11 at 34,000 miles.

Just be grateful that there is a capacity warranty you probably will qualify for. Unless the previous owner opted out of the class action lawsuit that Nissan now claims brought it about, in which case you may not.

I have read about the class action lawsuit and people not getting their warranties because they opted out. How do I find out if the original owner opted out? Or is it not even a factor because I'm a different owner? I bought the car through a dealership, it was an 2011 lease return.

armelwani said:

I have read about the class action lawsuit and people not getting their warranties because they opted out. How do I find out if the original owner opted out? Or is it not even a factor because I'm a different owner? I bought the car through a dealership, it was an 2011 lease return.

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Go to the dealer and ask him to pull a report on your car showing VIN warranty exclusions. You're looking for a B0133 PNC. Unfortunately, in Nissan's infinite wisdom, they've tied this to the car rather than the owner who opted out.

Thanks, mwalsh, I'll do just that. I'm going to be pretty annoyed if my car is opted out and the dealer neglected to inform me... :x

I called over there and had them fax me the report. I'm good to go! Phew!!

Made an appointment to take the LEAF in on Monday 10/20 for them to inspect further why I've degraded so much over such low mileage.

Good luck armelwani. They cannot help you until you're down 4 bars.

ILETRIC said:

Good luck armelwani. They cannot help you until you're down 4 bars.

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Thanks, ILECTRIC. I figured there isn't much they can do, but they asked me to bring it in anyway, so figured a paper trail was good to have for when I do hit 4 bars. Plus, seeing as they just did a battery inspection last week, they said there'd be no charge for this. I'll post the results here when I get back from the dealer on Monday.

Dealership was next to useless. Said that everything looked fine with the batteries and the degradation of two bars at 25k miles was normal. Does anyone know how I can open a case with Nissan to ensure that I'm on their radar? I suspect I'm going to be getting more lost bars over the coming months.

Things to do:

1. Call the 1-877-NO-GAS-EV hotline and report your issue.
2. Make sure your bar loss information is added to the wiki.
3. Post your information to the PIA battery survey.

If you have the tools, try a range test and/or energy from the wall recharge test to verify accuracy of the capacity meter.

armelwani said:

... Is this normal behavior to be down to 10 bars after only 25k miles and about 40 months since the car was manufactured? ...

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Yes, is normal.
I have around 23K miles in 41 months in TN and I am close to losing second capacity bar. Could happen any time now.
In general CA and TN climate isn't awful , but it is not good either.
One of the two poorly informed misguided people that filed the class action lawsuit against Nissan was in CA.
Not sure what micro climate they were in or how badly they treated the battery but they did get a battery replacement under the "free to all non-settlement Nissan 5 year / 60,000 mile capacity warranty."

A big part of Nissan LEAF battery capacity degradation is time.
Bit slower in Pacific NW or Canada if you drive quite a few miles pet year, lot slower in Norway.
But overall manufacture date and time matters more on capacity degradation than MOST people recognize.

drees said:

Things to do:

1. Call the 1-800-NO-GAS-EV hotline and report your issue.
2. Make sure your bar loss information is added to the wiki.
3. Post your information to the PIA battery survey.

If you have the tools, try a range test and/or energy from the wall recharge test to verify accuracy of the capacity meter.

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The phone number is (877) NO GAS EV.

-Sean

I lost my second capacity bar yesterday.
2012 Leaf with 52,700 miles.

I'm guessing that the capacity warranty is not going to apply to me. I guess I'll just run this car into the ground until the Tesla Model 3 is available.

garsh said:

I lost my second capacity bar yesterday.
2012 Leaf with 52,700 miles.

I'm guessing that the capacity warranty is not going to apply to me. I guess I'll just run this car into the ground until the Tesla Model 3 is available.

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Similar situation here - 2011 with 2 bars gone, only 35K miles but we're 4 months out from our 5 year mark, doubt we are going to lose 2 more bars before January.

When the time comes we'd love a Tesla, but If it's really the case that we can get a compatible, brand new LEAF battery for $5K at some point we might go that route. Has anyone actually bought the new battery (which I understand to be the 'lizard' variation, slightly better than our original)? Beyond that, are the ponderings about an even better (higher capacity) future replacement battery actually being compatible with a 2011 based on any real info from Nissan, or just wishful thinking?

wsbca said:

Similar situation here - 2011 with 2 bars gone, only 35K miles but we're 4 months out from our 5 year mark, doubt we are going to lose 2 more bars before January.

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Quite a lot of people in that boat - I have about 8 months to go and still have 10 bars, though the 10th should be going in the next couple months (49 Ah right now). I don't expect to lose the 4th bar until about the 5.5 year mark.

wsbca said:

When the time comes we'd love a Tesla

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Wouldn't we all!

wsbca said:

but If it's really the case that we can get a compatible, brand new LEAF battery for $5K at some point we might go that route. Has anyone actually bought the new battery (which I understand to be the 'lizard' variation, slightly better than our original)?

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The 2015 "lizard" battery appears to be holding up well so far, but it's too early to know for sure. A small number of people out of warranty have bought the pack outright, but far more have gotten it under warranty,

wsbca said:

Beyond that, are the ponderings about an even better (higher capacity) future replacement battery actually being compatible with a 2011 based on any real info from Nissan, or just wishful thinking?

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Nothing official from Nissan at this point in time.

I just lost my 2nd bar at the start of this month.. 33k miles (SoCal). Since then the capacity has actually been going up despite the heat and several QCs (from 51.345Ah 59.85Hx to 51.496Ah 60.21Hx) Go figure.

I still have 8 months left on my lease and at $236/mo I'll probably extend a few more months if I can. If they announce a 2017 with 150-200 miles range then my hope is the 2016s with 30kWh lizard packs might be had at a good discount by then... Waking up to 350 Gids would certainly be a lot nicer than my current 210 or so.. Really sucks when the QC ramps down dramatically before I even get to 50% charge :/

mwalsh said:

Just be grateful that there is a capacity warranty you probably will qualify for. Unless the previous owner opted out of the class action lawsuit that Nissan now claims brought it about, in which case you may not.

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Need to drop 2 bars in 1 year, possibly less. Will take some effort, and still likely not going to happen. As for being down 2 bars after 4 years sounds perfectly normal, almost within what Nissan has said.

Valdemar said:

... As for being down 2 bars after 4 years sounds perfectly normal, almost within what Nissan has said.

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Nissan said 80% capacity after five years.
Two capacity bars is 21.25% loss.
78.75% capacity in four years.

Guess it depends on your definition of almost

TimLee said:

Valdemar said:

... As for being down 2 bars after 4 years sounds perfectly normal, almost within what Nissan has said.

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Nissan said 80% capacity after five years.
Two capacity bars is 21.25% loss.
78.75% capacity in four years.

Guess it depends on your definition of almost

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Well, I'm looking through the prism of being at 66% and not even at 4 years, so 78.75% does seem to be perfectly within the spec to me

TimLee said:

Valdemar said:

... As for being down 2 bars after 4 years sounds perfectly normal, almost within what Nissan has said.

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Nissan said 80% capacity after five years.
Two capacity bars is 21.25% loss.
78.75% capacity in four years.

Guess it depends on your definition of almost

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If you lose your 2nd bar after 4.5 years you're losing capacity 10% faster than what Nissan told us to expect.

If you lose your 2nd bar after 4 years you're losing capacity 20% faster than what Nissan told us to expect.

If you lose your 2nd bar after 3.5 years you're losing capacity 30% faster than what Nissan told us to expect.

If you lose your 2nd bar after 3 years you're losing capacity 40% faster than what Nissan told us to expect.

I would consider 4.5 years or within 10% to be "almost". Anything under 4 years I would not consider to be "almost" and definitely at the point where one would not expect to be.

When Nissan does not provide any error bars on "80% after 5 years and 70% after 8 years", you expect to be in the "almost" category.

Valdemar said:

Well, I'm looking through the prism of being at 66% and not even at 4 years, so 78.75% does seem to be perfectly within the spec to me

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Yeah, but you are driving a lot more miles. Given that the capacity warranty has both a mileage and time limit, you should probably take the highest factor, not the lowest factor to determine your anomaly.

At almost 80k miles and 70% remaining, you're still losing capacity faster than expected, purely on miles alone one might expect to 70% at 96k miles, not 77k, so you're still losing capacity about 20% faster than expected based on mileage, still outside of the definition of "almost".