What's the WORST economy you've had in the Leaf?

Just curious about others' experiences.

My worst to date was this past week. We got 1-2 feet of snow, and they do not plow the roads here. So little Leaf and I became a snow plow to work. My neighbourhood up in the mountains was worse hit than the city because we are a thousand feet or so higher in elevation and once I got down lower the roads were "compacted" a bit. Not plowed, just driven on already.

I managed to use 20% of my battery to go 0.8miles from driveway to the top of the second road out of the neighbourhood. This is without heat on.

So in heavy wet snow that the Leaf is literally plowing through with the floor scraping the snow, the snow and ice that builds up in the wheel wells so that it rubs against the tire constantly, and temperatures in the -20C area, the leaf is a "4-mile range vehicle".


Ok, well not that bad, but it was pretty funny to lose so much so soon. I did only get about 14miles on that 100% charge though before LBW.

Off topic, but stories like this remind me why I live in San Diego, CA. Today we were in the mid 80's* f. Yesterday low 80's* f. Only a few weeks ago we were so cold that it never got above mid 60's* f. I am glad that it has warmed up a bit.

2k1Toaster said:

Just curious about others' experiences.

My worst to date was this past week. We got 1-2 feet of snow, and they do not plow the roads here. So little Leaf and I became a snow plow to work. My neighbourhood up in the mountains was worse hit than the city because we are a thousand feet or so higher in elevation and once I got down lower the roads were "compacted" a bit. Not plowed, just driven on already.

I managed to use 20% of my battery to go 0.8miles from driveway to the top of the second road out of the neighbourhood. This is without heat on.

So in heavy wet snow that the Leaf is literally plowing through with the floor scraping the snow, the snow and ice that builds up in the wheel wells so that it rubs against the tire constantly, and temperatures in the -20C area, the leaf is a "4-mile range vehicle".


Ok, well not that bad, but it was pretty funny to lose so much so soon. I did only get about 14miles on that 100% charge though before LBW.

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What was your Km/Kwh (M/Kwh) on your return trip back up the 300m to home?

What tires does this PlowLeaf wear? How many mm left?

During our last snow storm we had here I had to run and get the kids (14 mile round trip), I had a full charge. We have Bridgestone Blizzacks snow tires, second winter on them, and I dropped them to 20 PSI and had to run the defrost on heat the whole time, it was 5F or -15C. I passed a lot of stuck vehicles, drove through mostly 4-6 inches and some good drift's, but I got home warm with no problem with the 4 kids. That trip was 1.6 M/Kwh lowest to date and I think I used about 50%, it was fun

I think I've seen numbers below 3 miles/kWh when driving in snow but I've never been in a situation like the OP experienced. Typical winter driving for me is about 4.2 m/kWh, but that's on clear roads, albeit with large elevation changes.

Graffi said:

Off topic, but stories like this remind me why I live in San Diego, CA. Today we were in the mid 80's* f. Yesterday low 80's* f. Only a few weeks ago we were so cold that it never got above mid 60's* f. I am glad that it has warmed up a bit.

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But snow is pretty... When I was a kid growing up in Hawai'i (fifth generation kama'aina) snow was a picture in a book. Now after more than three decades here I still enjoy having four seasons and anticipate each one. Next up: "Moab season"! The wildflowers should be prolific this spring in Arches National Park (and around my house in May).

A couple of pictures from bedroom windows here:




Sunrise touches the mountains to the south.

I lived in San Diego for thirteen years (Revelle '75); the population went from one million to two million. I don't miss it.

I am sorry to see that people in subzero climates and mountains are actually buying these leafs.... The leaf is for temperate, flat environments....

powersurge said:

I am sorry to see that people in subzero climates and mountains are actually buying these leafs.... The leaf is for temperate, flat environments....

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Oh come now. It depends on how far you want to go. I've had great fun with my LEAF over the last 4+ years. It made me hate taking ICEV anywhere. The LEAF is also a fine snow car if you are within its range limits.

Regardless, the coming longer range EVs, including LEAF 2, will make the our current short range ones obsolete and widen the potential pool of drivers.

Yes we go from running right about 3.0 in the coldest part of winter to 6.0 in summer, the tire swap, snow and cold all mess with things.

dgp I can't remember are you running on snows? Those numbers seem great for winter, maybe not running a lot of heat and you must not have been on the big island and gone up Manua Kea, I have seen snow up there

dgpcolorado said:

powersurge said:

I am sorry to see that people in subzero climates and mountains are actually buying these leafs.... The leaf is for temperate, flat environments....

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Oh come now. It depends on how far you want to go.

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I had a recent experience where I wanted to travel 55 miles but didn't think I could make it.
Range anxiety - bailed on 55 mile trip

BrockWI said:

Yes we go from running right about 3.0 in the coldest part of winter to 6.0 in summer, the tire swap, snow and cold all mess with things.

dgp I can't remember are you running on snows? Those numbers seem great for winter, maybe not running a lot of heat and you must not have been on the big island and gone up Manua Kea, I have seen snow up there

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No, I had never been to the Big Island as a child. Definitely no snow on O'ahu!

No, I don't use snow tires. In sunny Colorado the roads are clear and dry most of the time and plowing and sanding is quite prompt when it does snow (even the remote dirt road I live on is plowed quickly). The main problem I have is getting up my long steep driveway. I have to wait until I can get it shoveled and even then it is sometimes slick if the snow is warm. Then I use cable chains. Only need them a few times a winter.

One big factor that doesn't apply to many other places is altitude. The air is a lot thinner here so I get better miles/kWh (and ICE cars get much better mpg) than folks who live at low altitude. The lowest my LEAF has been since I got it home in 2011 has been about 5700 feet elevation and most of my driving is a lot higher than that.

And, no, I don't use the heater, except for defrosting the windshield (for defogging I use unheated outside air). The steering wheel heater is plenty for me for comfort because I dress warmly in winter (I used to have a coworker in Boulder who wore shorts all year, not for me!). Below zero is unusual here during the day and if I am only in the car for forty-five minutes or so, the heater just isn't necessary. Especially on sunny days.

ElectricEddy said:

What was your Km/Kwh (M/Kwh) on your return trip back up the 300m to home?

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My average is about 2.9 to 3.1 miles/kWh for all my driving all the year long. Going up the "hill" takes 5% to 10% of SOC usually. So if it is 2.4kW and it is about 1.8 miles or road, then that's 1.3 miles/kWh (2 km/kWh). I don't usually measure it because there's nothing I can do or would want to do to avoid it. On the way down the Leaf doesn't like charging much after it first starts. The Prius is great because it kills the battery up and then on the way down the mountain fully recharges it. The Leaf is stubborn and refuses to put full regen into a cold start pack for some reason even when the SOC is down at like 50%.







I only charge with L1 at home and at work. Sometimes a DCQC if I don't have time for an overnight charge and sometimes L2 charge at the movie theatre.

arnis said:

What tires does this PlowLeaf wear? How many mm left?

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plowLeaf, along with all my vehicles except the sport cars, wear Michilin X-ICE 3 winter snow tires. They are not studded, but never have a problem on snow or ice in any of the vehicles. I rarely change them out seasonally, I rock them all year long for 2-3 years then buy a new set. They are between $130 and $280 per tire depending on the size. For example the Lexus RX450h takes the $280/tire version... The ones on there now are from this season, replaced the stock super bald crap tires in August 2015.

powersurge said:

I am sorry to see that people in subzero climates and mountains are actually buying these leafs.... The leaf is for temperate, flat environments....

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Completely disagree. The Leaf is excellent in the mountains. You just have to know its limits. There is more to the world than flat temperate zones. I love how the car can be warmed up before I get there. Not for me, but so that the layer of thick ice can be loosened a bit so I can scrape it off in chunks instead of actually having to scrape.

dgpcolorado said:

In sunny Colorado the roads are clear and dry most of the time and plowing and sanding is quite prompt when it does snow (even the remote dirt road I live on is plowed quickly). The main problem I have is getting up my long steep driveway. I have to wait until I can get it shoveled and even then it is sometimes slick if the snow is warm. Then I use cable chains. Only need them a few times a winter.

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Around here the city is big enough and with few enough plows it took 4 days before a plow even approached our neighbourhood and then did one single lane down the middle making things worse. Instead of an even pile of ice, snow, and slush, now there was a huge ridge just off to the side of the plow track that poor PlowLeaf shouldn't attempt to make it over. It was 2 days before anything but the major roads got plowed at all. The streets right off of the major roads (like highways) were not plowed.

dgpcolorado said:

One big factor that doesn't apply to many other places is altitude. The air is a lot thinner here so I get better miles/kWh (and ICE cars get much better mpg) than folks who live at low altitude. The lowest my LEAF has been since I got it home in 2011 has been about 5700 feet elevation and most of my driving is a lot higher than that.

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Same here. The lowest my Leaf has been is Ft. Collins, right around 5000ft. Usually it sits around 6800ft at work, and almost 8000ft at home.

dgpcolorado said:

And, no, I don't use the heater, except for defrosting the windshield (for defogging I use unheated outside air). The steering wheel heater is plenty for me for comfort because I dress warmly in winter (I used to have a coworker in Boulder who wore shorts all year, not for me!). Below zero is unusual here during the day and if I am only in the car for forty-five minutes or so, the heater just isn't necessary. Especially on sunny days.

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Rarely do I turn the heater on, and it is not a Leaf thing. If it is above freezing, I usually have a window down or cracked. I did a full year in shorts once just because I wanted to see if I could. Coldest was -28C/-17F in shorts and a t-shirt with sandals. Just like Hawaii lol.

2k1Toaster said:

...Rarely do I turn the heater on, and it is not a Leaf thing. If it is above freezing, I usually have a window down or cracked. I did a full year in shorts once just because I wanted to see if I could. Coldest was -28C/-17F in shorts and a t-shirt with sandals. Just like Hawaii lol.

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Not for this thin-blooded Hawaiian! For me it is long underwear and long sleeve shirts and multiple layers. I do keep it a bit on the cool side in my house as well: 62 mornings and evenings and 52 at night. 70 feels very overheated to me in winter.

I do like it when the snow is "squeaky cold" (single digits and lower). One of life's pleasures IMO!

My typical efficiency is about 2.5 mi/kWh in the winter. The lowest I've seen for the day is about 1.2 though. That's basically a series of short trips, with the car starting from cold every time, and blasting the heater because I have two kids in the back in carseats.

Graffi said:

Off topic, but stories like this remind me why I live in San Diego, CA. Today we were in the mid 80's* f. Yesterday low 80's* f. Only a few weeks ago we were so cold that it never got above mid 60's* f. I am glad that it has warmed up a bit.

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I'm with dpgcolorado. Snow is beautiful. It also blocks/diffuses sound very well. There is nothing more peaceful that the almost eery silence of a light snowfall. But I'm glad that you like where you live. To each his own. One of my pet peeves is the number of people who claim to hate winter yet choose to live in the snowiest city in the country.

powersurge said:

I am sorry to see that people in subzero climates and mountains are actually buying these leafs.... The leaf is for temperate, flat environments....

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Long Island is hardly a temperate climate, especially when compared to San Diego. I remember playing in the snow at my grandmother's house in Amityville as a child. It is flat, though.

And the Leaf works incredibly well in cold climates. There is no warm-up time for the engine (previous cars were still not outputting heat when I got to work, whereas the Leaf outputs heat pretty much immediately). The electric drivetrain also performs much better than a cold ICE drivetrain.

The worst we have gotten on out '15 Leaf S is 402.5Wh/mile.

The average consumption we have recorded is ~258Wh/mile.

(click on image for link)

X-Ice are really good on compacted snow. Not the best in soft deep fluffy snow.
I would not recommend running winter tires in summer. They get too soft around +15C or above.
Sharp edges are ruined and next winter they are not good any more.

True, Leaf works really well in cold climates. It keeps cabin toasty down to -15C and mild down to -25C.
One thing I don't like is very aggressive ESP system - it can be disabled. Unfortunately no "pro" setting
Performance driving with ESP is pretty much impossible. It corrects absolutely everything even at 10MPH :lol: