AndreaIta
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2016 8:34 am
Delivery Date: 18 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 009283
Location: Sicilia

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Sun Aug 07, 2016 1:38 pm

Ok and now the question, when battery need to change? And how much cost?

cwerdna
Gold Member
Posts: 7386
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Sun Aug 07, 2016 4:19 pm

AndreaIta wrote:Ok and now the question, when battery need to change? And how much cost?

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17168

However, from your other post, you don't live in the US, so we don't know about your prices.

Can you update your location info via your user name in the upper right > User Control Panel > Profile tab? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

As for "when", well, its depends on whether you want to spend the money and when the Leaf with its existing capacity is/isn't enough to meet your range autonomy needs.

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Sykora1
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2016 3:21 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 007439

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Fri Aug 12, 2016 3:49 pm

This post applies only to 2011 and 2012. I'm a new member. I have a 2011 LEAF SL that is about to run out of warranty. I bought LEAF Spy Pro several months ago and have been monitoring my batteries. Spy says I never charge to 100%. It ranges from 88 to 96% based on how far I've driven. It shows all the bars but Spy's State-of-Charge says I don't charge all the way. Am I the only one experiencing this?

My belief is Nissan uses %Capacity/(State-of-Charge * 100) to determine Battery State of health. The resulting number is what they use to set the number of bars on the dash. If they never charge to 100%, I contend the inability to fully charge amounts to a loss of battery capacity. I'm about to run out of warranty in seven days and would like to have confirmation the software on my LEAF is limiting the charge. My spreadsheet shows the % charge goes down as fewer miles are driven. Drive 10 mile and charge results in less than 90% State-of-Charge

I believe Nissan changed my software to limit full charge when they limited type 3 chargers to 80% maybe three years ago.

I want to take this too the local media but I'd like some feedback first.

Also, can somebody verify the State-of-Charge number is what is read directly from the LEAF computer?

Thank you
Greg

LeftieBiker
Posts: 7687
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Fri Aug 12, 2016 5:01 pm

The battery management system (BMS) is programmed to charge the pack to no more than 95% or so even when it indicates to the driver that it is at 100% (this SOC display started on the 2013 Leaf). While Nissan may have played with the capacity calculations, it is not entirely this that you are seeing.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium and no QC, a 2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, and 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

QueenBee
Posts: 1564
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:14 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 2062
Location: Bellevue (Seattle), WA

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Fri Aug 12, 2016 6:45 pm

Sykora1 wrote:This post applies only to 2011 and 2012. I'm a new member. I have a 2011 LEAF SL that is about to run out of warranty. I bought LEAF Spy Pro several months ago and have been monitoring my batteries. Spy says I never charge to 100%. It ranges from 88 to 96% based on how far I've driven. It shows all the bars but Spy's State-of-Charge says I don't charge all the way. Am I the only one experiencing this?

My belief is Nissan uses %Capacity/(State-of-Charge * 100) to determine Battery State of health. The resulting number is what they use to set the number of bars on the dash. If they never charge to 100%, I contend the inability to fully charge amounts to a loss of battery capacity. I'm about to run out of warranty in seven days and would like to have confirmation the software on my LEAF is limiting the charge. My spreadsheet shows the % charge goes down as fewer miles are driven. Drive 10 mile and charge results in less than 90% State-of-Charge

I believe Nissan changed my software to limit full charge when they limited type 3 chargers to 80% maybe three years ago.

I want to take this too the local media but I'd like some feedback first.

Also, can somebody verify the State-of-Charge number is what is read directly from the LEAF computer?

Thank you
Greg


There is no big conspiracy... If you go research lithium battery charging the first thing you'll learn is that you never want to charge to 100% or discharge to 0% which is why every production BEV has a reserved at the top and bottom and your LEAF has been doing this since its first charged.

SOC is in fact a number read from the LEAF.

Also there is no limit that CHAdeMO charging can not go past 80%, I do this often and have the latest updates.

I can confirm that the software on your LEAF limits the charge, if it didn't have limits your battery could explode.

"My belief is Nissan uses %Capacity/(State-of-Charge * 100) to determine Battery State of health."

That would be an incorrect belief since the state of health doesn't change based on the state or charge.

Let us know if that doesn't answer all your questions.

User avatar
drees
Moderator
Posts: 6212
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:51 pm
Location: San Diego

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:27 pm

Well, just lost my 4th bar today, just 2 months out of capacity warranty.

Final numbers:
Age: 5 years, 2 months, 5 days
Mileage: 53k
AHr: 43.3
Hx: 45.0
Last 100% / 80% GIDs: 186 / 152

Drove the car 50 miles today at 4.5mi/kWh down to 25.6% SOC and 37 GIDs. Normally hit LBW around 30 miles on 80% charge and 45 miles on 100% charge.

I am attempt to get how many kWh to charge from turtle to 100% to get an independent verification of capacity loss.
'11 LEAF SL Powered By 3.24 kW Enphase Solar PV

LeftieBiker
Posts: 7687
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Sat Aug 13, 2016 5:13 am

Are you going to try for a partial reimbursement for a new pack from Nissan?
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium and no QC, a 2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, and 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

TimLee
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:40 am
Delivery Date: 17 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2026
Location: Chattanooga, TN

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Sat Aug 13, 2016 8:45 am

LeftieBiker wrote:Are you going to try for a partial reimbursement for a new pack from Nissan?

drees have dealer document loss as soon as possible.

See my details on complete replacement two weeks past warranty at viewtopic.php?f=30&t=14102&start=1060#p467550.

Good luck with CSR.

Might be useful to let them know you are a diligent well respected moderator on mynissanleaf.com that has done a huge amount to support the LEAF community.
We appreciate all your hard work.

Tim Lee
Chattanooga, TN

Man. Date: 03/10/11, VIN # 2026
Delivered 05-17-2011
Blue Ocean, 2011 SL-eTec

User avatar
drees
Moderator
Posts: 6212
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:51 pm
Location: San Diego

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:41 am

Yes, I will take it to the dealer first and see what happens from there. Frankly, I'd be satisfied if Nissan offered partial compensation, which was what I tried to push for at part of the Nissan LAB group almost two years ago. The all or nothing aspect of the warranty sucks for something you can watch slowly wither away.
'11 LEAF SL Powered By 3.24 kW Enphase Solar PV

TimLee
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:40 am
Delivery Date: 17 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2026
Location: Chattanooga, TN

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:56 am

drees wrote:Yes, I will take it to the dealer first and see what happens from there. Frankly, I'd be satisfied if Nissan offered partial compensation, which was what I tried to push for at part of the Nissan LAB group almost two years ago. The all or nothing aspect of the warranty sucks for something you can watch slowly wither away.

I agree completely.

No proration was a big mistake by Nissan.

When I talked to CSR I was guessing they might offer 50% like another person got or maybe 75%.

But I was very close at two weeks and only 34,000 miles.

I stayed very business like and on point and calm.
Chris was top notch we probably talked 8 to 10 minutes on a Friday.
He said he would let me know in three business days.
He called me back Tuesday with the good news.

Replacement went smoothly.
Two to three hours for dealer to process replacement order.

Arrived in about six weeks.
About five hours to swap.
Three hours one day.
Loaner Versa Note (dreadful car).
Two hours next day picked it up.
Mountain View service department is superb.
Bought my second brake fluid flush too.

Tim Lee
Chattanooga, TN

Man. Date: 03/10/11, VIN # 2026
Delivered 05-17-2011
Blue Ocean, 2011 SL-eTec

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