palmermd
Posts: 2484
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:19 pm
Delivery Date: 31 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 1100011011
Location: Hermosa Beach, CA

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:48 pm

As of this morning 26 March 2018 we lost the 4th bar. We sit at 43.47Ahr, 66.27%SOH and Hx44.14, 57,232 miles. 5309 L1/L2 and 9 DCQC charges.

palmermd wrote:As of this morning September 15, 2016 we lost our third bar. We now sit at 47.49Ahr, 72%SOH and Hx 51.78, 48,960 miles 4585 L1/L2 and 3 DCQC charges.

palmermd wrote:As of August 1st 2015 we lost our second bar. We now sit at 51.51Ahr, 78%SOH and Hx 60.23%, 37,016 miles, 3245 L1/L2 charges and 0 DCQC charges.

palmermd wrote:... As of today, 1st of June 2014 we have 54.91Ahr SOH 83% and Hx 68.63%, 25,382 miles, 1890 L1/L2 charges and 0 DCQC charges. ...





This seemed to take a bit longer, but we are driving less than before. Seems like miles is a larger impact than time. Fortunately, my drive to work is just 8 miles. I never had a regular commute with the car when we were living in Sacramento. I now drive the same route almost every day to and from work. Every day I start the car and have low 60's as a guess for range. I get home every evening and the car is at about mid twenties for remaining range. So a surface street easy drive 16 miles round trip uses 35 to 40 miles of guesstimate. It also reduces from 12 bars to 4-5 bars of capacity (usually 5). It is enough that I can't make the trip twice without charging. But as a work commuter that I own, it works just fine for now. But it will be replaced with a standard range Model 3 once they start producing them. I'm in no hurry, and I have been invited to configure if I wanted the long range pack, but I'll keep waiting.
Michael

Leaf since 31 March 2011
Driving electric since 1996


First Bar Loss
Second Bar Loss
Third Bar Loss
Fourth Bar Loss

ahagge
Posts: 298
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:38 am
Delivery Date: 02 Jul 2011
Leaf Number: 5175
Location: Northridge, CA

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:07 am

Apologies for the off-topic...

SageBrush wrote:NIce information, but regarding the Google Docs chart ...

How do you get a scale on both sides of the graph ? I've wanted that for a long time.

Also, I'm not able to open the interactive link.

Regarding the scale on both sides: In the Chart editor, under the CUSTOMIZE tab and "Chart & axis titles", the Type pulldown has an option of "Right vertical axis title" - that's where to put the title text. The axis itself is in the "Right vertical axis" pulldown under the CUSTOMIZE tab. (Note: I developed the chart using the old Chart Editor, so I have no direct experience with the above. YMMV :? )

Regarding the link: Try this one (not sure why the original went bad, hoping this one will keep working):

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... nteractive
Ocean Blue SL-e
Per LEAF Spy as of 06/26/18: 11 bars, 222 GIDs, 53.4 AHr on new (04/30/15) Lizard battery (1st bar lost 12/22/17)
Orig. battery lost 4th bar at 177 GIDs, 43.19 AHr, 44.74 Hx, 65% SOH after 45 months

User avatar
RegGuheert
Posts: 6239
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Fri May 04, 2018 11:01 am

RegGuheert on August 28, 2017 wrote:Let's see if the rate of capacity loss is increasing or decreasing:

1st Bar: 4/6/2015 - 24,496 miles - 54.01 Ah
2nd Bar: 6/11/2016 - 33,691 miles - 51.24 Ah
3rd Bar: 8/25/2017 - 46,100 miles - 47.47 Ah

1st-2nd Bar: 431 days/bar - 9,195 miles/bar - 2.77 Ah/bar = 155 days/Ah = 3319 miles/Ah
2nd-3rd Bar: 440 days/bar - 12,409 miles/bar - 3.77 Ah/bar = 116 days/Ah = 3291 miles/Ah
We haven't dropped our ninth bar, yet, but I thought I would take a look at what has happened over the last eight months. Here is the latest reading:

Date: May 3, 2018
ODO: 54,629 miles
AHr: 46.02 Ah
SOH: 70.15%
Hx: 48.18%

1st-2nd Bar: 431 days/bar - 9,195 miles/bar - 2.77 Ah/bar = 155 days/Ah = 3319 miles/Ah
2nd-3rd Bar: 440 days/bar - 12,409 miles/bar - 3.77 Ah/bar = 116 days/Ah = 3291 miles/Ah
3rd Bar-Now: ?? days/bar - ?? miles/bar - ?? Ah/bar = 171 days/Ah = 5882 miles/Ah

Of course it is normal to lose less capacity over the winter than over the summer. As such, I expect these numbers to turn completely around now that it has gotten hot. We'll see how things look when that next bar drops.

With the current battery conditions and now that the weather has gotten warm, my wife returns home from her 49-mile commute with about 35% SOC in the battery. Come next winter, she will have more days when she takes the hybrid rather than the LEAF to make her commute -- maybe 30 or more.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K miles: Apr 14, 2013, 20K miles (55.7Ah): Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah): Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah): Feb 8, 2017, 50K miles (47.2Ah): Dec 7, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

RelaxedGal
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:07 am
Delivery Date: 28 Feb 2015

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:24 am

Like RegGuheert I feel like I'm closing in on that 4th bar. I have a feeling it will be December of this year.

Past stats, pulled from my signature in case I change it in the future:

Purchased Certified Pre-Owned February 2015, 36,033 miles
First Bar lost: 39,879 miles, July 2015.
Second: 50,225 & 8/16.
Third: 62,960, 11/17.

Latest stats:
Date: August 2, 2018
ODO: 69,411 miles
AHr: 45.28 Ah
SOH: 69.02%
Hx: 60.86%

Sporting Milestar MS932 tires with ~ 20,000 miles of wear (used as summer tires since purchase) and averaging ~ 4.8 miles/kWh in the summer, 5.0 in Spring and Fall. Closer to 3.7 in winter tires Oct-March.

The car is racking up fewer miles now that my husband has his own EV, so that 4th bar miiiiiiiiiight stretch to March. The battery is losing SOH a little faster than the Battery Aging Model for Boston, but then again I'm 40 minutes in from the coast and there's no shade at my office. My car is baking on the blacktop and today is 93F with a heat index of 101F. The car was manufactured 6 years 8 months ago and the Battery Aging Model estimates 70% SOH at 7.8 years.
2012 Nissan Leaf SL
Purchased February 2015, 36,033 miles
First Bar lost: 39,879 miles, July 2015. Second: 50,225 & 8/16. Third: 62,960, 11/17.

User avatar
Marktm
Gold Member
Posts: 407
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:49 am
Delivery Date: 09 Jan 2016
Leaf Number: 022737

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:34 am

RelaxedGal wrote: The battery is losing SOH a little faster than the Battery Aging Model for Boston, but then again I'm 40 minutes in from the coast and there's no shade at my office. My car is baking on the blacktop and today is 93F with a heat index of 101F. The car was manufactured 6 years 8 months ago and the Battery Aging Model estimates 70% SOH at 7.8 years.


An amazing battery aging report by the "early adopters". When was this last updated? I may have missed it, but the statement about "recent" and "2013" indicates that not too much information on the "Lizard" has been included?

Also, LeafSpy Pro monitors remaining energy in both kWhs and GIDs - are the comments on GIDs still applicable when determining range? I've assumed (guess what that means) that GIDs are the more accurate representation.
2012 Leaf SL; 36,000 miles. Battery replaced November 1st, 2016.
Rural cabin with 6750 watts Grid tied PV. Off-grid solar Leaf charging capable (level II).
Location - Houston, TX

User avatar
Marktm
Gold Member
Posts: 407
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:49 am
Delivery Date: 09 Jan 2016
Leaf Number: 022737

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:06 am

The latest battery report on my replacement "Lizard" battery. It does seem the range is taking a nosedive recently - I'm going to have to watch closely.

Leaf bad cells.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
2012 Leaf SL; 36,000 miles. Battery replaced November 1st, 2016.
Rural cabin with 6750 watts Grid tied PV. Off-grid solar Leaf charging capable (level II).
Location - Houston, TX

cwerdna
Posts: 7983
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:25 am

^^^^
Umm, we do have a thread for "lizard" pack stats/capacity loss at viewtopic.php?f=30&t=24532.

You no longer have the crappy battery that came w/Leafs built before 4/2013.

Also, can you update your location info via your user name in the upper right > User Control Panel > Profile tab? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it. I have no idea where you are.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

cwerdna
Posts: 7983
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:55 am

Marktm wrote:
RelaxedGal wrote: The battery is losing SOH a little faster than the Battery Aging Model for Boston, but then again I'm 40 minutes in from the coast and there's no shade at my office. My car is baking on the blacktop and today is 93F with a heat index of 101F. The car was manufactured 6 years 8 months ago and the Battery Aging Model estimates 70% SOH at 7.8 years.


An amazing battery aging report by the "early adopters". When was this last updated? I may have missed it, but the statement about "recent" and "2013" indicates that not too much information on the "Lizard" has been included?

I was not involved in authoring the "aging model" but it originally covered the only known battery revision at the time: whatever was in '11 and '12 Leafs during the whole Phoenix/hot climate capacity loss fiasco: viewtopic.php?t=9694. Turbo3 (he lives a few miles from me) and I did loan some equipment to Surfingslovak for him to bring w/him to Phoenix to conduct Tony's range test (results at https://web.archive.org/web/20160113132 ... p?p=228326).

https://web.archive.org/web/20140714232 ... acity_Loss (July 14, 2014) seems to be as far back as the history goes of that page, at least at archive.org. Not sure if it was hosted elsewhere before and if earlier copies exist.

It is not clear to me whether the model covers the better batteries found in Leafs built 4/2013 thru model year '14. Probably not. We didn't know those were better until probably ~2 years after 4/2013. And, 4/2013 is a good educated guess as to when the switch happened. It seems Nissan quietly made a switch as it was never announced and AFAIK, never acknowledged either.

The copy of that page from July 14, 2014 most definitely couldn't cover the "lizard" packs which we'd just learned of on June 27, 2014: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17168. It generally takes at least 2 hot summers for us to tell how a pack is holding up. BBrockman alluded to a "hot battery" (as some have termed it) being in testing in Aug 2013: viewtopic.php?p=320754#p320754. Presumably, that became the "lizard" battery.

BTW, Leftiebiker coined a bunch of nicknames for some of the pack revisions: viewtopic.php?p=533420#p533420. I'm not sure if we ever got confirmation that the newly developed cell at https://www.nec.com/en/global/techrep/j ... 120112.pdf became either the "wolf pack" or the "lizard pack". One would guess that lessons learned from that were incorporated into some packs that went out to customers.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

User avatar
Marktm
Gold Member
Posts: 407
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:49 am
Delivery Date: 09 Jan 2016
Leaf Number: 022737

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:49 am

Appreciate the detailed response - and the reminder about my location - Thought I had taken care of that some time ago.

I am on my second summer of the "Lizard" replacement pack - I'll post the updated curve later this summer on the Lizard thread - however it does appear that the rather large uptick in ahrs during early summer is heading back down.
2012 Leaf SL; 36,000 miles. Battery replaced November 1st, 2016.
Rural cabin with 6750 watts Grid tied PV. Off-grid solar Leaf charging capable (level II).
Location - Houston, TX

Return to “Problems / Troubleshooting”