Boy are WE are in for TROUBLE when our Warranty runs Out!

Upset… Going to rant a bit……Oh Boy…..

I’m doing a project, and needed some Leaf parts to mess around with.
Surprisingly, I couldn’t find some of the part numbers online for the pieces I needed.

I specifically needed a couple of “Valve Cover” gaskets for the inverter housing.
I was hoping to discover that some nicely twisted Nissan engineer used the same footprint for the inverter cover as the valve cover for a 1977 Datsun pickup or something, and the things would be like $6

Doesn't matter, not important...........

So I went over to the dealer with my list, and he took one look at it and laughed (nicely).

He said

“When it comes to these kind of internal parts, our system might as well have a picture of a
Leaf, and one Part number”.

It should say “Nissan Leaf, Part Number 0001, tires available separately”

Uh Oh……

I wanted some spare Inverter cover screws, and inverter cover gasket, and was curious as to what the inverter control circuit board sold for as a replacement part.

Their parts diagram makes it look like the whole inverter assembly might as well be a solid block of aluminum.

I can’t order a replacement cover screw?
I can’t order a replacement gasket?
Really Can't!
There are no part numbers available.

The most fragile item in there is that control circuit board, and ironically they designed it for quick change.
I could replace it in 2 minutes once I pulled the cover off…… but I can’t, because it doesn’t have a part number!!
No part number means they are not going to sell it to you.

EVER!
Never Ever!

And keep in mind, our 2011 and 2012 cars have unique parts.
Those are not the same bits under our Japanese hood’s as these new-fangled Southern 2013 cars.

I just have a bad feeling about the future.
These things are going to age.
No matter how much I love this car, Stuff is eventually going to fail.

I now think back to my conversation with Nissan Corporate when my charger failed and needed to be replaced, and it takes on a more ominous cast.

After a frustrating week of no answers, and a VERY frustrated dealer who was willing to replace the charger immediately out of pocket, (But they wouldn't sell him one?), I simply wanted to know what piece had failed.

What component had released the magic blue smoke and brought me to a standstill, so that I might learn from it, and be ready if it ever happened again post-warranty?

No amount of sneaky round about questioning, requests for an engineer to call me back, nothing got results.

I Got:

“It’s fixed. The problem has been corrected so it shouldn’t happen again. Thank you for your time, BYE!”

NOT Going to tell Me. NOT!
Keep in mind I own this car. No lease -Paid cash. It’s MINE!

Wow. We are really staring at a “no user serviceable components inside, core charge, rebuilt alternator mentality “ in our future apparently.

Except that all the “Modular Components” in the car cost like $3000.00

In a couple years when my Inverter fails because a $1 diode got a bit of corrosion on it, I’m out $3000 for a whole assembly because apparently “It’s all Lasers, Ninja's and VooDoo and Magic **** inside there…OOOoooooo!”

Thanks
Sorry.

Don't even have a part number for a screw? hope the tech doesn't drop one? Oh, never mind, he's not allowed to take THAT cover off. Bad Ju JU voodoo will get out.
Need a Shaman from Nissan corporate for that; incantations and chanting before "magic box evil bad be opened"....Ooooooooooo

There will be plenty of salvage yard parts if the new parts are too crazy.

You have a point to a point, but put the shoe on the other foot. Suppose you were selling a very complicated (to the average customer) product and had to repair it under warranty. Would you trust that everyone out there had the necessary engineering background to modify your product. One mistake by them and you are left having to make good on their mistake. I think Nissan has enough on their hands trying to train their own dealership's technicians without opening it up to everyone. I have a 2011 and am satisfied with it without modifying it in any way.

However to your point, if you are willing to disavow your warranty, perhaps Nissan could have you sign a waiver of warranty and then sell you whatever parts you may need.

Once the warranty is done you will not hesitate to open the component and poke around.
And like most stuff now you will just search u-tube for an instructional to repair.
No fear.

It will all change over time. Nissan isn't going to have the resources to send their special engineers out, or even consult over the phone, for every niggling problem in an EV fleet of half a million cars.

And, when they have some serious competition in the space, some of their close-fisted approaches like unknowable part-numbers, will have to change. Not to mention the after-market and "tuner" scene, which will be just as happy to sell you higher-power inverters as they are tricked-out cams, exhaust and ignition systems.

KillaWhat said:

apparently “It’s all Lasers and VooDoo and Magic **** inside there…OOOoooooo!”

Click to expand...

Don't forget the Leprechauns that come out at night and do all that VooDoo!!

But in all seriousness, I have a feeling that Nissan is going to try and protect all their "internal" parts as closely as possible. JUST PLAYING DEVIL'S ADVOCATE HERE..

But if one of their boards fails under warranty (rather you own the car or not, I own mine as well) they will still want to replace that unit/board under contract and possibly send the faulty one back to HQ for eval and testing on why it did and how.

I can understand why they won't sell a gasket maybe or a cover unless there is warranty or accident damage involved.

They are trying to keep us tinkerers and DIY'ers out!!

But in the end, parts will be as common as ICE parts are.

Part of the problem is that working in the area you are requires dealing with high voltage. Nissan is probably scared spitless of home mechanics or even third party mechanics working in those areas. While everyone's cars are in warranty, they think they can get away with this. However, as we know, some people are already out of warranty, due to mileage, and the calendar will take the 2011s out of warranty starting next Dec.

It's a little reminiscent of the battery pack replacement price fiasco. I would post this question to EVShels to get onto the agenda for the advisory panel. Unfortunately, that won't help you at all in the near term.

I have a 2011 and am satisfied with it without modifying it in any way.

Click to expand...

It's not about tinkering, or modifying, or any of that.
THERE are NO part numbers.
And Nissan is not going to go back, and assign part numbers later!

Yes, 99% of the Leaf owners have NO interest in opening and repairing something in the "Gooey Center" of these cars.
And that is as As it should Be.
I agree.... But.....................

My wife is brilliant, but has NO interest in even opening the Hood of anything we own.
But if she takes our Suburban in for service (I know, an unlikely scenario, but bear with me), and the garage calls her to tell her that "Your Valve Cover gasket needs to be replaced, but GM says the engine is only available as a unit".... that would sound absurd, right?

So are we to believe that no one knows what goes on in the Magic Box, and it's better that way?
What is this, a Mac? :roll:
Should she have to rely on some hopefully future cottage industry springing up to help us deal with this.

Send it off to Tennessee and we will see what we can do?
Car down for a month because a Diode Failed?
Crap!

For somebody like Ingineer, these cars are the "Toddler's end of the Pool".

The bottom line is that someday somebody, maybe somebody specialized and brilliant, is going to have to fix these, but not if nobody can get any internal parts, including the Dealers?
Because... there are NO part numbers?

It's a Cookbook!

KillaWhat said:

It's a Cookbook!

Click to expand...

To Serve Man?

Stoaty said:

KillaWhat said:

It's a Cookbook!

Click to expand...

To Serve Man?

Click to expand...

Somebody got it that quick!
My faith is restored.
(seriously)

Part of the problem may be that there are no spare parts for these cars as of now. My home charging station is a Scneider Electric EVLink. The EVLink had a recall that I didn't know about because a 3rd party manufactured the hose and nozzle. There was arcing across the 2 pins and it screwed up my 220V connection on the Leaf.

Nissan did not have any spare receptacles so they had to pull one off the assembly line, send it to my dealer and have the Leaf Tech get into his space suit to do the install.

If you have one of the EVLink units you need to call Schneider Electric with the serial number to see if you are affected. Their service tech drove 300 miles to my house to replace the hose and nozzle. They were going to cover all repairs and rental car but Nissan just put it all on warranty.

So far, very happy with both Nissan and Schneider for standing by their product.

ERG4ALL said:

You have a point to a point, but put the shoe on the other foot. Suppose you were selling a very complicated (to the average customer) product and had to repair it under warranty. Would you trust that everyone out there had the necessary engineering background to modify your product. One mistake by them and you are left having to make good on their mistake. I think Nissan has enough on their hands trying to train their own dealership's technicians without opening it up to everyone. I have a 2011 and am satisfied with it without modifying it in any way.

However to your point, if you are willing to disavow your warranty, perhaps Nissan could have you sign a waiver of warranty and then sell you whatever parts you may need.

Click to expand...

It has nothing to do with not selling the individual parts to consumers or other repair shops. If the control board that KillaWhat mentions fails right now the dealership tech is not able to order a new control board. He has to order the entire unit as a whole, as others mentioned this is fine while it's under warranty since Nissan is paying.

IMO this is not some conspiracy to keep DIYers out or non dealer mechanics. I think it's just the decision they made to keep the part number list down, tech training down, etc. You have to draw the line somewhere and they've probably drawn it too soon but I disagree that they can't change their mind later. When they see a specific part failing that is easily serviceable they can add more parts numbers and service bulletins, etc.

A good example is on my 2000 Acura TL there was a wiring harness to the fan motor that apparently had a tendency to fail. They made a TSB and a special part number to repair it instead of having to hack something together or order the entire wiring harness. If the control board starts failing regularly enough they can easily add a part number for it and a TSB with instructions on how to replace it, etc. Obviously the incentive to do this after warranties have expired is lower than during but still...

It's very common for dealers to not have specific part numbers for every internal part. For example look at an alternator. These can be rebuilt somewhat easily but do you think you could find the dealer part number for the parts needed to rebuild one? A dealership tech is never going to rebuild an alternative so why would they offer part numbers so that someone could?

So IMO Nissan is not yet expecting a dealership to repair the unit so that's why we don't have individual part numbers. This can change and if it doesn't then there might be a market for repair services (If possible), refurb services if different parts are failing, units will be valuable from the salvage yard, etc.

But anyone that doesn't think these cars are going to be expensive to maintain as electrical components start to fail is crazy Even if you could just order that circuit board, how much would it cost from the dealer?

All the more reason to stick to leases until this stuff is ironed out.

No way I want to be dependent on finding spare parts in junk yards. That might work in CA but not here.

LTLFTcomposite said:

All the more reason to stick to leases until this stuff is ironed out.

Click to expand...

We have a winner!
this is just another very good reason to lease these cars for 2 or 3 years, maybe after a few thousand more are sold will an aftermarket develop, until then spare parts will remain difficult to obtain.

All the reason for buyers to pony up for an extended warranty. Not sometime I do in the main. But for certain items I use everyday, and use to death for that matter (my treadmill is a stellar example), I've found the extended warranty to be a wise purchase.

mwalsh said:

All the reason for buyers to pony up for an extended warranty.

Click to expand...

are there any extended warranties being offered for the LEAF? I'd be surprised if they are

More importantly, who is issuing the extended warranty? My experience on a car extended warranty from a long time ago is they have this multiple page long list of stuff that's covered, everything from frammajammer to the flux capacitor, but somehow whatever breaks on your car is something not on the list, and they weasel out of paying anything. Ever since, I made a point to not buy them, and consumer watch dogs generally recommend against them.

apvbguy said:

mwalsh said:

All the reason for buyers to pony up for an extended warranty.

Click to expand...

are there any extended warranties being offered for the LEAF? I'd be surprised if they are

Click to expand...

Of course they are: I bought one at the same time I bought my Leaf (extended everything out to equal the battery "warranty"). I typically don't buy extended warranties, but I figured no one would be able to work on this car (or get parts) for years, and the price was reasonable.

KillaWhat said:

I have a 2011 and am satisfied with it without modifying it in any way.

Click to expand...

It's not about tinkering, or modifying, or any of that.
THERE are NO part numbers.
And Nissan is not going to go back, and assign part numbers later!

Yes, 99% of the Leaf owners have NO interest in opening and repairing something in the "Gooey Center" of these cars.
And that is as As it should Be.
I agree.... But.....................

My wife is brilliant, but has NO interest in even opening the Hood of anything we own.
But if she takes our Suburban in for service (I know, an unlikely scenario, but bear with me), and the garage calls her to tell her that "Your Valve Cover gasket needs to be replaced, but GM says the engine is only available as a unit".... that would sound absurd, right?

So are we to believe that no one knows what goes on in the Magic Box, and it's better that way?
What is this, a Mac? :roll:
Should she have to rely on some hopefully future cottage industry springing up to help us deal with this.

Send it off to Tennessee and we will see what we can do?
Car down for a month because a Diode Failed?
Crap!

For somebody like Ingineer, these cars are the "Toddler's end of the Pool".

The bottom line is that someday somebody, maybe somebody specialized and brilliant, is going to have to fix these, but not if nobody can get any internal parts, including the Dealers?
Because... there are NO part numbers?

It's a Cookbook!

Click to expand...

It is all modular so they don't expect anyone to open anything, even for warranty they just start replacing entire assemblies because no tech is ever going to service internal inverter parts just like they don't fix ABS ECU modules on ICE cars.

QueenBee said:

...When they see a specific part failing that is easily serviceable they can add more parts numbers and service bulletins, etc.

Click to expand...

Agreed. For the valve cover example, in ICE vehicles, valve covers warp from heat or occasionally ham-handed mechanics doing other work. On a LEAF I'm not sure what the field failure rate for that piece would be... maybe miniscule. On an ICE the gasket is subject to intensely hot oil and can develop leaks. On the LEAF its job is much easier. Different situations.

It's very common for dealers to not have specific part numbers for every internal part. For example look at an alternator. These can be rebuilt somewhat easily but do you think you could find the dealer part number for the parts needed to rebuild one? A dealership tech is never going to rebuild an alternative so why would they offer part numbers so that someone could?

Click to expand...

Ran into that back in the '80s with my mom's Chrysler. The starter was failing and for some inexplicable reason even a remanufactured one was over $300 (in 1980's dollars!). New was closer to $500, iirc. I thought they were pulling my leg but I called all over and got the same story. The only thing wrong with the darned thing was one of the contacts had eroded in the solenoid. I fixed it for 1/3 of a copper penny and a little brazing and filing. Oddly, they didn't carry replacement solenoid contact blocks.