Boy are WE are in for TROUBLE when our Warranty runs Out!

[apvbguy]

for giggles can you post a site that offers one for a LEAF?

Nissan Santa Rosa seems to get a fair number of nods on other Nissan Forums:

http://nissansantarosaservicecontracts.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But we've had discussion on this issue before, and a number of sites were referenced in that thread. Use the search and take a look (I don't have time right now to search for you).

interesting, thanks for that, while I didn't dig very deeply into the coverage because I am on a 24 month lease, I think it is great that this coverage is available.

has anyone gotten into the battery coverage?

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

How about some good links to genuine Nissan Extended Warranty info?

Aren't some parts of the 2011 LEAF on 3-year warranty?

Almost any non-warranty repair would seem likely to cost more
than the (roughly $1600) cost of the extended warranty, right?

I would really appreciate some experienced wisdom in this area, please.

There are lots of things that could crap out that would be nowhere near that amount, or at least they shouldn't be. Say a power window motor goes, that should be like $300. If you're lucky some things like that use common parts with other models, maybe even generics available, but I wouldn't count on that. Just a set of wiper blades is like $105 from the dealer.

 

[QueenBee]

Here is one thread on the Extended Warranty, from about a year go:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=9438" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Seems to say that the dealer cost for the 8-year 100k mile $0 deductible
Gold Plus (apparently the most and best that Nissan offers for a "new"
LEAF) was about $1450, plus $100 if you are over 12 months or 12k miles.
The "new" apparently applies under 36 months and 36k miles.

I guess that I will have to contact some dealers.

Either not all dealers pay the same cost or whoever was told that the dealer cost was 1,450 was lied to, or that includes the overhead, commission, etc. of that dealer.

If you are still covered by the original 3 year/36 month warranty you can buy the extended warranty but will need to have an inspection performed by your local dealer.

Here is the pricing from http://nissansantarosaservicecontracts.com/ which includes a 0% Interest Payment Plan. The plan can be transferred to the a new owner.

LEAF Gold Preferred 24 Month 40,000 Mile Coverage: $297.00
LEAF Gold Preferred 39 Month 39,000 Mile Coverage: $306.00
LEAF Gold Preferred 36 Month 40,000 Mile Coverage: $315.00
LEAF Gold Preferred 36 Month 45,000 Mile Coverage: $379.00
LEAF Gold Preferred 39 Month 49,000 Mile Coverage: $399.00
LEAF Gold Preferred 48 Month 60,000 Mile Coverage: $437.00
LEAF Gold Preferred 36 Month 60,000 Mile Coverage: $480.00
LEAF Gold Preferred 60 Month 60,000 Mile Coverage: $763.00
LEAF Gold Preferred 60 Month 75,000 Mile Coverage: $802.00
LEAF Gold Preferred 72 Month 75,000 Mile Coverage: $942.00
LEAF Gold Preferred 60 Month 100,000 Mile Coverage: $1,000.00
LEAF Gold Preferred 84 Month 70,000 Mile Coverage: $1,088.00
LEAF Gold Preferred 72 Month 100,000 Mile Coverage: $1,114.00
LEAF Gold Preferred 48 Month 48,000 Mile Coverage: $1,255.00
LEAF Gold Preferred 84 Month 100,000 Mile Coverage: $1,395.00
LEAF Gold Preferred 96 Month 100,000 Mile Coverage: $1,453.00

 

[RegGuheert]

interesting, thanks for that, while I didn't dig very deeply into the coverage because I am on a 24 month lease, I think it is great that this coverage is available.

We purchased the 96-month/100,000-mile warranty for $1200 at the time we purchased our LEAF. We have never done that before, but we felt that nearly any repair of the electronics in the car would cost more than that. My only disappointment with this warranty is that it was not available for 120-months/120,000 miles like it is for other Nissan products.

has anyone gotten into the battery coverage?

This is an exclusion type warranty. Basically anything which is not specifically excluded in the warranty document is covered. Both the traction battery and the 12V battery are excluded from coverage under the extended warranty.

 

[QueenBee]

We purchased the 96-month/100,000-mile warranty for $1200 at the time we purchased our LEAF. We have never done that before, but we felt that nearly any repair of the electronics in the car would cost more than that. My only disappointment with this warranty is that it was not available for 120-months/120,000 miles like it is for other Nissan products.

Is that the gold with $0 deductible?

 

[garygid]

Any idea what the detailed Inspection costs?

I might need to have the LEAF's firmware updated.

 

[RegGuheert]

Is that the gold with $0 deductible?

Good question! I had to look at our paperwork. The answer is that it is Gold Preferred with a $50 deductible per visit. I will also correct the amount we spent: $1220.

BTW, I think one of the main reasons we got a decent deal is because the salesman for the add-on contracts did not have the details of what was covered for the LEAF, so he could not answer our specific questions. As a consolation, he offered the contract at a decent price.

For reference, here is what the contract paperwork says:

NO STANDARD PLANS AVAILABLE FOR NISSAN LEAF

In other words, only Preferred plans are available.

Silver Preferred: ... For Nissan LEAF, covers over 600 components in the areas of Steering, Suspension, Brakes, Body & Interior Nissan A/C / Heater, Audio and Video/Navigation.

Gold Preferred: ... For Nissan LEAF, covers over 900 components in the areas of Steering, Suspension, Brakes, Body & Interior Nissan A/C / Heater, Audio and Video/Navigation.

It looks like the preferred contracts include towing up to $100 and car rental up to $35/day for up to 5 days with a $175 maximum per breakdown. Fortunately, our Nissan dealer rents cars, so it is convenient.

One thing interesting I see on the Extended Warranty Agreement is the In-Service Date. It reads: 03/16/12. I like seeing that there. This was a demo car and sometime AFTER I purchased the car, on of the service writers showed me that the in-service data was in late September 2011. Since I have this date printed on a contract signed by the dealer the date we purchased the vehicle, we may have some recourse out to the full 8 years after our purchase date. I will definitely whip this contract out if it comes to that!

 

[Valdemar]

Is there any indication that the Gold Preferred covers the EV system, e.g. the inverter, the onboard charger, and the motor? These are the items I'd more concerned about than the mechanical parts.

 

[RegGuheert]

Is there any indication that the Gold Preferred covers the EV system, e.g. the inverter, the onboard charger, and the motor? These are the items I'd more concerned about than the mechanical parts.

Not on the original contract paperwork we signed. This was the question which the contract negotiator could not answer that helped us get a good deal. Since that time, we received a printed brochure from Nissan that details what is covered/not covered. Those are in there. I cannot give you the exact wording from the brochure since it is out with my wife and the LEAF right now. Let me see if I have posted that elsewhere on the forum...

Edit: Nope, it doesn't appear I have posted that information elsewhere on the forum. I will look at the pamphlet when my wife gets back and post what I find there.

FWIW, here is something I posted previously that answers an earlier question about extended coverage for the traction battery:

8 WHAT IS NOT COVERED BY MY SERVICE AGREEMENT
8.1 Nissan Electric Vehicle lithium-ion battery (your 8-year/100,000-mile Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) factory battery warranty still applies. See the Warranty Information Booklet for complete details, terms and conditions).

 

[RegGuheert]

O.K. The electric drive components are NOT excluded, which means they are included. Here is the entire list of exclusions in our agreement:

8 WHAT IS NOT COVERED BY MY SERVICE AGREEMENT
8.1 Nissan Electric Vehicle lithium-ion battery (your 8-year/100,000-mile Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) factory battery warranty still applies. See the Warranty Information Booklet for complete details, terms and conditions).
8.2 Paint, exhaust system, carpet, glass, upholstery, soft trim, weatherstripping, convertible soft top fabric and liner, moldings, bright metal, clutch disc, pressure plate and throw out bearing (manual transmission), air bags and any related sensors and modules, conversion of the air conditioning system to operate on R134, battery, lenses and bulbs, tires, brake drums, disc brake rotors, wheels, MacPherson strut inserts, shock absorbers, squeaks, rattles, water leaks, wind noise, immobilizer key and remote keyless entry switch assembly.
8.3 Maintenance service expenses specified in your Owner's Manual such as: engine tune-up, wheel balance and alignment, spark plug and wire replacement/adjustment, timing belt replacement, fluid and lubricant replacement/replenishment, wiper blade replacement, headlight aiming, filter replacement and brake pad and shoe replacement.
8.4 Any repairs relating to loss of performance caused by normal wear and tear unless an actual MECHANICAL BREAKDOWN occurs.
8.5 Any failures due to damage resulting from: accident, fire, theft, water damage, freezing, vandalism, explosion, natural disaster, acts of God, physical damage, or any other outside influences.
8.6 Any failures resulting from:
- Lack of normal maintenance as specified in your vehicle Owner's Manual
- Overheating of the powertrain
- Use of improper or contaminated fuels, fluids, or lubricants
- Failure to maintain proper fluid, coolant or lubricant levels
- Use of inferior, modified or non-approved parts
- Modification of the vehicle beyond the original factory specifications
- Negligent operation of a vehicle with a failed component(s)
- Pulling a trailer or other vehicle that exceeds Nissan's recommendations or exceeds the maximum Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) of the vehicle
8.7 Any failures due to rust or corrosion regardless of cause.
8.8 Any failures caused by racing or other competition.
8.9 Service adjustments not usually associated with the replacement of parts.
8.10 Any incidental or consequential damages such as loss of the use of the vehicle, storage charges, inconvenience or commercial loss.
8.11 Any vehicle with an inoperative or altered speedometer and/or odometer so that the actual mileage of the vehicle cannot be determined.
8.12 Any vehicle used for commercial uses (such as taxi, limousine, rental, etc.).
8.13 Any expense that is covered by your New Vehicle Warranties, parts warranties, or other Agreements.
8.14 Any repair or replacement that has not been authorized by NESNA, or in which the information provided to NESNA cannot be verified as accurate or is found to be deceptive.
8.15 This Agreement, and all coverages described herein, does not apply to any vehicle which has ever been:
- the subject of a 'salvage' or similar title under any state's law, or
- 'totaled' by a licensed insurance company; that is, been the subject of any insurance company's cash payment of claim in lieu of repairs because of a determination that the cost of repairs exceeded the actual cash value of the vehicle. If this Agreement is written on such as vehicle, the full amount of the NESNA's liability under this agreement is limited to a refund from NESNA of the amount paid to NESNA for this Agreement.
8.16 Liability for damage to property or injury to or death of any person arising out of the operation, maintenance, or use of the vehicle described in this Agreement, whether or not related to the PARTS COVERED by this Agreement.
8.17 Any vehicle not distributed by Nissan.
8.18 Repairs of covered components which components are still covered by a Nissan warranty even if the particular repair is excluded from coverage by the terms of the warranty.
NESNA'S MAXIMUM LIABILITY UNDER THIS AGREEMENT IS AS FOLLOWS: TOTAL ACCUMULATIVE CLAIMS DURING THE TERM OF THE AGREEMENT SHALL NOT EXCEED THE PRIVATE PARTY VALUE OF THE VEHICLE AS LISTED BY KELLEY BLUE BOOK(TM) AT THE TIME OF THE CURRENT CLAIM.
This Agreement provides coverage only with respect to MECHANICAL BREAKDOWNS which occur during the Agreement period in the United States (excluding U.S. Territories).

 

[Valdemar]

Thanks for sharing this. The last sentence worries me a bit as clearly states this agreement is for MECHANICAL BREAKDOWNS only. Am I not reading it correctly that it doesn't cover electric drive components unless the failure is in fact MECHANICAL?

Also, with current Leaf depreciation rate of about $5,000/year after tax credits, the clause about maximum liability not to be more than the KBB value leaves me wondering if you'll actually be able to get any meaningful reimbursement should a (major) failure occur after 7 years :lol:

EDIT: This is how Nissan defines a mechanical breakdown:

"A Mechanical Breakdown is defined as the inability of a covered part(s) to perform the function(s) for which it was designed, due solely to defects in materials or faulty workmanship."

It is pretty general, so could apply to failure in electronic components as well.

Also, here, it says that the electric motor is not covered in AZ.

 

[RegGuheert]

Thanks for sharing this. The last sentence worries me a bit as clearly states this agreement is for MECHANICAL BREAKDOWNS only. Am I not reading it correctly that it doesn't cover electric drive components unless the failure is in fact MECHANICAL?

Yes, I had the same pause, but the term MECHANICAL BREAKDOWN is defined in the original contract as:

MECHANICAL BREAKDOWN means the inability of a covered part(s) to perform the function(s) for which it was designed, due solely to defects in materials or faulty workmanship for which Nissan is responsible.
MECHANICAL BREAKDOWN does not include damage due to negligence, damage caused by an accident, or the gradual reduction in operating performance due to wear and tear. In addition, the Agreement does not provide any benefit for any mechanical failure or breakdown caused by a non-covered part.

Later it says:

4 WHAT DOES MY SERVICE AGREEMENT COVER?
The Agreement covers any repairs needed due to MECHANICAL BREAKDOWN, as defined above, for Nissan components in the areas of Engine, Fuel, Transmission, Front Wheel Drive, Rear Wheel Drive, and Four Wheel Drive, Suspension, Steering, Brakes, Electrical and Nissan Air Conditioning (Original Equipment Manufacturer Only).

Based on the above wording and the lack of exclusion in the detailed agreement, I think they would have a tough time getting out of repairing the charger, inverter, DC-DC converter or battery controller unless they were excluded due to lightning, etc.

Fortunately, with the exception of the chargers, the electronics in the LEAF have been bulletproof. My hat is off to the power-electronics engineers at Nissan!

 

[Valdemar]

Yup, I came across the mechanical breakdown definition and updated my previous post.

Electronic component failure rate goes up with time, even more so for high-current applications. With that short term reliability may not be a very good indicator of what we can expect in the future.

 

[RegGuheert]

Yup, I came across the mechanical breakdown definition and updated my previous post.

Thanks! It's great to have it in PDF format!

Electronic component failure rate goes up with time, even more so for high-current applications. With that short term reliability may not be a very good indicator of what we can expect in the future.

There are two main reliability issues with power electronics: keeping all components within the safe operating area (SOA) and wearout. Both are important for long-term product reliability. Extremely low failure rates of the inverter, DC-DC converter and the battery controller with 70,000+ cars on the road tells me they got the SOA stuff right. Now we only need to keep our eyes out for wearout issues, as you say.

 

[GlennD]

Just another reason to lease. Considering a 36 month lease is really 35 months since the first payment is due at lease start, It will never be out of warranty.

 

[Valdemar]

Just another reason to lease. Considering a 36 month lease is really 35 months since the first payment is due at lease start, It will never be out of warranty.

If you can keep your mileage under control. I'm averaging 1500/month, soon will be more. Lease gets expensive above 15000/year.

 

[Ingineer]

There is a good reason why you cannot order separate parts for an assembly such as the inverter. There really is no user serviceable parts inside! There are factory calibrated parts that cannot easily be re-calibrated in the field, not by dealer techs, and definitely not by an owner!

Inverter drive boards are NOT interchangeable between different inverters, as there are calibration parameters stored! You cannot simply swap some of these parts without possible dire consequences!

Even if you replace the entire inverter in a LEAF, you have to use Consult III+ to match it to the exisiting resolver/motor calibration parameters!

I agree it might be annoying to not be able to order the gasket, but it should really never need replacement; for one; You shouldn't be going inside there, and for two; even if you do, how did you screw up the gasket?

If you lost a screw while in there, then that sucks, but again; You shouldn't be in there... Hopefully you don't drop it inside the housing!

Finally, as long as you don't screw it up, the inverter is extremely reliable. I don't expect to ever experience an inverter failure, so I'm not worried.

The only thing in the car I might have any complaint with is the OBC, as a simple blown diode can render the whole multi-kilobuck assembly useless, and we have many reports of this now. Of course if you are actually qualified, you can repair this fault without the need to replace the whole assembly. If it ever happens to me, I will do just that, and if demand after warranty exists, I will offer a repair service. I repaired thousands of Prius Combination Meter boards before Toyota finally owned up to the deficiency!

About the only thing on the LEAF that's of serious worry is the battery pack, and we still don't yet have an official replacement cost/procedure.

-Phil

 

[RegGuheert]

Finally, as long as you don't screw it up, the inverter is extremely reliable. I don't expect to ever experience an inverter failure, so I'm not worried.

Phil, do you know if Nissan's inverter design includes electrolytic capacitors? I suspect at this power level they are required, even given the three-phase design. They are almost certainly included in the DC-DC converter and the charger. If so, those of us hoping to keep our LEAFs for a very long time may be in need of some repairs of these items at some point.

 

[Ingineer]

Finally, as long as you don't screw it up, the inverter is extremely reliable. I don't expect to ever experience an inverter failure, so I'm not worried.

Phil, do you know if Nissan's inverter design includes electrolytic capacitors? I suspect at this power level they are required, even given the three-phase design. They are almost certainly included in the DC-DC converter and the charger. If so, those of us hoping to keep our LEAFs for a very long time may be in need of some repairs of these items at some point.

The capacitor module is metal-film. There are no large electrolytics. The one in the LEAF is proprietary, but similar to this.

-Phil

 

[RegGuheert]

The capacitor module is metal-film. There are no large electrolytics. The one in the LEAF is proprietary, but similar to this.

Thanks, Phil! Since you said "the one in the LEAF" I'll assume you are talking about the capacitor module in the inverter only. But the OBC is a single-phase design. Does it manage to process 3.3kW at a very high power factor without any electrolytics? How about the new 6.0 kW design? Finally, what about the DC/DC converter? I would be pleasantly surprised to hear that they are ALL electrolytic-free. Thanks again.