2013 SL Crashed - What next?

Hey y'all,

Wife was on her way home last night and got slammed into by a distracted driver. Still working through things, but can't imagine who would want to repair it: https://imgur.com/NKWAdYT

In looking at options for where we're at, and a bit more range now with what's out there, I'm kind of curious what you all would suggest. Local dealer has a Leaf Plus SV that looks cool, a bolt, or going with the ever popular model 3. We had gotten the 2013 used, so all of them would be an increase in cost for us. However, I don't really feel like going back to an ICE. What's the current opinion on best replacement at this point, or at least recommendations? Any advice really would be appreciated. Thanks!

Wow! I hope ( assume) your wife wasn't injured? Looks like a total loss to me. If you were happy with the Leaf, and depending on your driving requirements, another used Leaf would probably be the least expensive if you want to stay with a BEV.

Wife was fine, and I was super impressed at how the car took the impact. Another used leaf would probably be the most affordable, also difficult for our area. Had to drive 300 miles and tow it back to get this one here. While possible, just thinking we might want to upgrade to something with more range, even if it's a lease this time.

If available in your area, take a look at the Kia Niro - Great reviews!

joeriv said:

If available in your area, take a look at the Kia Niro - Great reviews!

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I wish. Closest is 900 miles away.

Sorry to hear about the crash. What's your area?

Can you update your location info via your user name in the upper right > User Control Panel > Profile tab? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

Energon5 said:

In looking at options for where we're at, and a bit more range now with what's out there, I'm kind of curious what you all would suggest. Local dealer has a Leaf Plus SV that looks cool, a bolt, or going with the ever popular model 3. We had gotten the 2013 used, so all of them would be an increase in cost for us. However, I don't really feel like going back to an ICE. What's the current opinion on best replacement at this point, or at least recommendations? Any advice really would be appreciated. Thanks!

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What are your daily driving needs in terms of miles? How much city vs. highway? Will you have the ability to charge at your work/destinations?

Seems like your '13 Leaf was suitable enough... so you could get another '13 Leaf used...

In my area, Bolts are being heavily discounted but tax credit on new GM EVs/PHEVs and Teslas is now only $3750. I bought from this dealer in Jan 2019 when the tax credit was $7500 still and discounting wasn't as high:
https://www.chevroletoffremont.com/VehicleSearchResults?search=new&model=Bolt%20EV&sort=salePrice%7Casc

I still have my '13 Leaf but I've been sort of trying to sell it as Bolt is replacing it.

If you care about DC fast charging inlet, (your '13 SL had a CHAdeMO inlet standard) make sure you pick a car with the $750 DC FC option. Click the window sticker link. It's not standard on either trim (LT and Premier). Bolt's DC FC inlet would be SAE Combo, not CHAdeMO.

cwerdna said:

Sorry to hear about the crash. What's your area?

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South Dakota. Sorry 'bout that, updated.

cwerdna said:

What are your daily driving needs in terms of miles? How much city vs. highway? Will you have the ability to charge at your work/destinations?

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Daily driving needs is 30-40 miles, mixed between interstate and in-town. With no charging really available except at home. Not a whole lot of EV infrastructure around here except for Tesla chargers and a single quick charger at the Nissan dealer.

cwerdna said:

In my area, Bolts are being heavily discounted but tax credit on new GM EVs/PHEVs and Teslas is now only $3750. I bought from this dealer in Jan 2019 when the tax credit was $7500 still and discounting wasn't as high:
https://www.chevroletoffremont.com/Vehi ... rice%7Casc

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Those are some awesome prices. The single Chevy dealer here has 2 Bolt's, one LT, one Premier, and the LT is $32k, while the Prem is $35k. Hoping to hear back on insurance says value on the '13 in their eyes is to really go further there. I guess the other option we've been looking at on the Chevy side is the Volt, which is definitely more affordable at this point, I just prefer the full EV option.

cwerdna said:

If you care about DC fast charging inlet, (your '13 SL had a CHAdeMO inlet standard) make sure you pick a car with the $750 DC FC option. Click the window sticker link. It's not standard on either trim (LT and Premier). Bolt's DC FC inlet would be SAE Combo, not CHAdeMO.

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Not too concerned about the DC Fast Charging style at this point. The CHAdeMO outlet with the '13 was just something we stumbled into having when we purchased. I guess the biggest deal without the FC option would be if we ever get to travel long distances with the car, which I'm still unsure of.

Thanks for updating your location info.

Energon5 said:

Those are some awesome prices. The single Chevy dealer here has 2 Bolt's, one LT, one Premier, and the LT is $32k, while the Prem is $35k. Hoping to hear back on insurance says value on the '13 in their eyes is to really go further there. I guess the other option we've been looking at on the Chevy side is the Volt, which is definitely more affordable at this point, I just prefer the full EV option.

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Keep in mind Volt's dead and production has ended, so it'll become increasingly hard to find a new one.

Also, if tax credits on a new GM EV/PHEV or Tesla matter, see https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/bolt-ev-electric-car (search for tax credit) and https://www.tesla.com/support/incentives for the dates of reduction. https://insideevs.com/features/337511/november-update-4-automakers-closest-to-losing-federal-tax-credit/ may also help for the other automakers.

cwerdna said:

Keep in mind Volt's dead and production has ended, so it'll become increasingly hard to find a new one.

Also, if tax credits on a new GM EV/PHEV or Tesla matter, see https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/bolt-ev-electric-car (search for tax credit) and https://www.tesla.com/support/incentives for the dates of reduction. https://insideevs.com/features/337511/november-update-4-automakers-closest-to-losing-federal-tax-credit/ may also help for the other automakers.

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With the Volt being dead, does that make it less viable? They've got a new one here in town for I think $23k, which is much nicer than $32k for the Bolt.

Tax credits don't matter that much here. There are no state incentives in SD, so anything I get would have to be purely the federal credit, which I think even the $3250 is a decent amount. Do you like your Bolt? Really the most affordable for us I think would be either the Bolt or Volt for new. The Leaf Plus gets into the same price range as an M3, which would almost make we want to look into that over the Leaf.

Energon5 said:

cwerdna said:

Keep in mind Volt's dead and production has ended, so it'll become increasingly hard to find a new one.

Also, if tax credits on a new GM EV/PHEV or Tesla matter, see https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/bolt-ev-electric-car (search for tax credit) and https://www.tesla.com/support/incentives for the dates of reduction. https://insideevs.com/features/337511/november-update-4-automakers-closest-to-losing-federal-tax-credit/ may also help for the other automakers.

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With the Volt being dead, does that make it less viable? They've got a new one here in town for I think $23k, which is much nicer than $32k for the Bolt.

Tax credits don't matter that much here. There are no state incentives in SD, so anything I get would have to be purely the federal credit, which I think even the $3250 is a decent amount. Do you like your Bolt? Really the most affordable for us I think would be either the Bolt or Volt for new. The Leaf Plus gets into the same price range as an M3, which would almost make we want to look into that over the Leaf.

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As for the bolded part, not really. $23K for a new Volt? That sounds too low. I haven't really shopped around for them but none at that cheap at Fremont Chevy: https://www.chevroletoffremont.com/VehicleSearchResults?search=new&make=Chevrolet&model=Volt.

Federal tax credit is $3750.

As for do I like my Bolt, there's good and bad. I've written too much already and don't have time to find it all or rewrite it all. Some of it is below:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=547382#p547382
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=548726#p548726
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=548833#p548833
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=548912#p548912

The range is incredible compared to my Leaf. Acceleration is WAY better than my Leaf. Premier trim's Surround Vision camera sucks compared to Nissan AVM (picture quality and no right side curb view). I posted already about the charging inlet location. Front seats are definitely a step down in comfort for me. I love Apple Carplay but using it vs. what I had in Leaf SV is ummm... different.

There are definitely numerous quirks or things GM does/decided to do differently (not necessarily wrong).

Given what was available in Jan 2019 for the prices and tax credit situation of the time, I wouldn't have done anything different.

I considered the 3 but there are too many downsides for me and it more was than I wanted to pay back then, which is why I ruled it out. However, 3 has many advantages over the Bolt, as well (e.g. excellent Supercharger network and charging speeds, better interior, OTA updates). Other than 3 prices having come down, none of my other concerns/requirements/wants have been addressed, so I still would not buy a 3 if I were in the market for a pure EV today. However, everyone's different and one's "deal breakers" or things that are important may not be at all for another person.

The only monetary CA govt related incentive I received was the $800 https://www.pge.com/en_US/residential/solar-and-vehicles/options/clean-vehicles/electric/clean-fuel-rebate-for-electric-vehicles.page. I do not qualify for $2500 CVRP (https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/eng/eligible-vehicles). My income's way too high.

If you are going to go for a used Leaf, please read this first:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=26662

If your needs are only 30-40 miles a day, then it's hard to justify anything other than a used Leaf. Could probably get a 2015 with 11 bars for $10K or maybe even less. We have similar cheap deals on 2018 Leaf, Bolt and Volt, but but I just can't talk myself into it. My 2014 Leaf with 10 bars meets 95% of my needs. I use my wife's car for the other 5%.

We owned a 2013 Leaf and a 2017 Volt until about 6 months ago. We sold the Leaf and purchased a used Tesla Model S. By the time we sold the Leaf the Volt had about the same effective electric range as the Leaf because the Volt has the backup gas motor so you can use the entire battery range. With the Leaf we pretty much ran it between 80% and 20% to preserve battery life and avoid range worries.
The Volt has been a great car for us. It really gets 53 miles of EV range but if you need to go for a trip it seamlessly transitions to gas power. We almost never use the gas engine but is great insurance and it means we don't have to have another backup gas powered car for longer trips. The Tesla has amazing range and with the well spaced supercharger network is also a fully road trip capable vehicle. I've taken 500+ mile trips in the Model S with no issues. A used model S is very similar in price to a new 200+ mile EV an much more capable due to the supercharger network. All three cars have been entirely trouble free.

jonemyers said:

We owned a 2013 Leaf and a 2017 Volt until about 6 months ago. We sold the Leaf and purchased a used Tesla Model S. By the time we sold the Leaf the Volt had about the same effective electric range as the Leaf because the Volt has the backup gas motor so you can use the entire battery range. With the Leaf we pretty much ran it between 80% and 20% to preserve battery life and avoid range worries.
The Volt has been a great car for us. It really gets 53 miles of EV range but if you need to go for a trip it seamlessly transitions to gas power. We almost never use the gas engine but is great insurance and it means we don't have to have another backup gas powered car for longer trips. The Tesla has amazing range and with the well spaced supercharger network is also a fully road trip capable vehicle. I've taken 500+ mile trips in the Model S with no issues. A used model S is very similar in price to a new 200+ mile EV an much more capable due to the supercharger network. All three cars have been entirely trouble free.

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I've been warned away from a used Model S by people who have purchased. Not necessarily in a bad way. The owners love them, they just make sure to point out that it is a luxury car and has luxury car maintenance issues/prices. New door handle - $1K. New license plate light system $1K. Random electrical issue - $1K. Nothing different than a nice Mercedez, and you're saving on gas and routine maintenance. Just need to consider it when you purchase it.

webb14leafs said:

If your needs are only 30-40 miles a day, then it's hard to justify anything other than a used Leaf. Could probably get a 2015 with 11 bars for $10K or maybe even less. We have similar cheap deals on 2018 Leaf, Bolt and Volt, but but I just can't talk myself into it. My 2014 Leaf with 10 bars meets 95% of my needs. I use my wife's car for the other 5%.

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I agree another used Leaf would fit current mission just fine. I'm thinking I want to expand into something with a little bit more range. For the weekend small trips to campgrounds, and other small trips that I would love to turn in to using an EV for. And the cold weather. I'm leaning toward checking out maybe a lease to own situation on a Bolt currently, but still looking for any input I can get.

I'm leaning toward checking out maybe a lease to own situation on a Bolt currently, but still looking for any input I can get.

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I looked into that in '17, and the leases were structured to make that financially unsound, with huge residuals. Maybe with current price reductions you'll be able to swing it, but they generally make buying a better plan.

LeftieBiker said:

I looked into that in '17, and the leases were structured to make that financially unsound, with huge residuals. Maybe with current price reductions you'll be able to swing it, but they generally make buying a better plan.

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If I may ask, did you just get all the info from the dealer being up-front about the lease-to-own option, or have to get most of the info yourself? I will admit, I'm fairly inexperienced when it comes to the leasing option, so figured would ask.

Energon5 said:

LeftieBiker said:

I looked into that in '17, and the leases were structured to make that financially unsound, with huge residuals. Maybe with current price reductions you'll be able to swing it, but they generally make buying a better plan.

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If I may ask, did you just get all the info from the dealer being up-front about the lease-to-own option, or have to get most of the info yourself? I will admit, I'm fairly inexperienced when it comes to the leasing option, so figured would ask.

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There is a Bolt forum here, and I got much of my info there. I suggest you do the same. Cwerdna can also help you here, as he just bought a Bolt.

LeftieBiker said:

I'm leaning toward checking out maybe a lease to own situation on a Bolt currently, but still looking for any input I can get.

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I looked into that in '17, and the leases were structured to make that financially unsound, with huge residuals. Maybe with current price reductions you'll be able to swing it, but they generally make buying a better plan.

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Leasing is a horrible option on a per mile basis. Would be better to just pay the tax credit amount toward the downpayment (and re-collect it later) to lower your monthly payment. Then again - if you're concerned about the monthly payment, you probably don't want to buy a new car.

@OP, you’ve gotten a lot of great advice here, and my experience mimics that of others. In your case, you have stated there is a nearby SuperCharger, a big plus for starting out or ending trips for the Tesla. Like others, I’ve found the Tesla to be a great trip vehicle, having taken our 3 on two 1,300-mile trips and several sub-1,000-mile ones easily done with its 325-mile range, and the 3 has been without any issues since we got it July 2018. I also really like my 2012 LEAF for its comfort, heated steering wheel, visibility, and easy ingress/egress but can’t take it anywhere beyond about 20 miles one way or I don’t get back.

But you’ve made some comments that I infer, perhaps erroneously, to be narrowing your desires to the sub-$30k market, while wanting a longer range than the 2013 LEAF gave you. That implies to me a used something. If used, then the Federal tax credit is not relevant. Also, it eliminates the Model 3 as used prices are higher than that today. An older Model S might be found but even those are generally pricier. You’ve eliminated the Kia because of distance to the dealership, so my conclusion is that you’re seeking a used Bolt or LEAF of a model year that gives you whatever mileage you’d like. Both choices will get you ranges beyond 2013 LEAF range, and could be in the sub-$30k range.

In my case, I wasn’t enamored with the Bolt all that much, and neither were the two local dealerships. Despite repeatedly asking about it, they never really “got” the Bolt and certainly did not promote it in any way. I don’t know if they ever even received one. I do know friends in other geographies who purchased one and love it, as some of the posters here also demonstrate.

Good luck with your decision, and please let us all know what you decide and why.