Leaf Ownership without Home Charger

Hello everyone!

First time posting but I've been reading this forum for a long time. I think I'm getting a great deal on a Leaf S plus quick charge ($280 including tax, $0 down, 12k miles plus $2500 rebate in September because I'm in socal).

My question is are there Leaf owners who don't have a 240 volt charger at home? With quick charge option, it would be about 20 mins at the local dealership that's 15 minutes away. Also, there are some Level 2 Chargers scattered around in my area (Ralph's, ChargePoint, etc.) I'm also trying to convince my Apartment complex to use the 120V charger at night or during the weekend.

How crazy is it to own this car without a home charger?

Thanks...

Don't do it without some sort of home charging. I've done what you're describing (temp housing w/o charging but I had L2 at work a few miles away) and it plain sucks.

Charging with L-1 at 120 volts at home isn't hard - I do it. Driving an EV with no ability to charge at home, or with that ability uncertain is unwise to say the least. Also, it's an "EVSE" or "charging cable", not a charger. The charger is inside the car.

Whoops, I'm still new to all this terminology but thanks for the feedback. With the quick charge at the dealerships, nearby Level 2 charging stations, and charging near work, why would having 120v capability at home be that important?

Is it any less crazier with having only 120v capability at home? Is a 240v a must? The quick charge option is the only reason I'm considering leasing this in the first place.

BrownLeaf said:

Whoops, I'm still new to all this terminology but thanks for the feedback. With the quick charge at the dealerships, nearby Level 2 charging stations, and charging near work, why would having 120v capability at home be that important?

Is it any less crazier with having only 120v capability at home? Is a 240v a must? The quick charge option is the only reason I'm considering leasing this in the first place.

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even an l2 charger will require 6 hours or so to fully charge the car, the dealership will not be so friendly after seeing you charge everyday, also being dependent on public charging stations for your regular charge can be hard, what will you do if the chargers go down, are already occupied or ICED?
the majority of us have installed 240 service for a reason. good luck and YMMV

L1 at home will cover 40 to 50 miles per day. Although a shared outlet in a shared row of garages could be problematic. The 12a charge going for 10+ hours really maxes out the circuit.

QC might be OK but L2 near work..... will you walk the distance every single day? Park by it now every day and walk for a week and see how that goes. L2 still takes several hours every single day.

What about the days you don't go to work, do you want to drive around for palace to charge?

What if you get home with low charge and need to go out within hours?

Good luck and let us know how it works out with apt management.

Ian B

It pretty much boils down to what you think your time is worth. The only time charging your car has zero time cost is charging at home, or at work, provided you aren't spending more time getting to the charging plug. If you add up the value of the extra time needed without a convenient charging station, you might as well buy gas.

I've been driving a Leaf since early 2011 and have never had home charging more powerful than 120V - and rarely used that.

The first couple of years were occasionally problematic since my '11 Leaf didn't have a CHAdeMo port, and there were so few CHAdeMo charging stations available it wouldn't have mattered. By early 2013 the availability of CHAdeMo stations in Los Angeles had developed enough to convince me to trade in my '11 for a '13 with a Quick Charge port. That was a turning point.

Since then, I've charged almost exclusively with Quick Charge stations, many of which are very convenient to me because I've lived between downtown and Hollywood, which is central to many QC installations, most of which have been free until recently, when Nissan began converting their QC stations to the ChargePoint network. (LADWP QCs are still free and will be for at least a couple more years, they say.)

The gamble has paid off for me, absolutely. In three years I've probably spent less than $50 on paid charging, and in the last year have only minimally gone out of my way to charge, or spent unnecessary time doing so. I'd advise you to consider your proximity to Quick Charge stations as one of the primary factors in your decision. If you live in a favorable location, you may very well have little problem living without L2 charging at home.

The BIG question that needs to be answered is "Where do you live / work?"

Some folks here in San Diego that live in apartment units without charging capabilities are now subscribing to NRG eVgo for unlimited DCQC. Since we do not know where in the world, or off-world for that matter, you are, it is difficult to make reasonable recommendations.

You will have to make a lifestyle change to do all charging away from home. Maybe do more reading or work in your car, or listen to book on tape/CD. In our case, being able to just plug in as soon as we pull into the garage and know that within 30 minutes or more we are good to go again is a great comfort. Our Leaf is set to charge to 80% so we do not use the charge timer. There have been days when we actually have come home and were recharging while there and ended up charging 3, or more, times in a single day. With the 6.6kw onboard charger with the 240v EVSE we get about 4 miles every 10 minutes it is plugged in. Using the DCQC, even for free still cost time which we do not pay for when we are home. Charging at home only costs about $0.01 per minute in electricity cost so the time spent away from home and other activities is much greater that the cost of energy.

BrownLeaf,

I leased an "S" with QC for $280, $0 down, 24 months, kind of like you. Of course I got the $5000 Georgia Tax credit. (Direct deposited to my account yesterday)

My wife and I figured that after driving the vehicle for two years "FREE", we would make $900. That being said, I was having a tough time making my 40 mile commute. I would get home each day at 5PM and hook up. The problem was that by 6AM the next morning, it was not even close to being fully charged. L1 20 hour charge times.

Now I do admit that I drive extremely fast and it's Interstate driving 95% of the way. (kills it for me compared to using the two-lane roads) Add that to the fact of us having one of the coldest Winters in decades. I went ahead and bought the Schneider EVlink wall unit for $600, plus $200 for the electrician. I figured that in 19 more months I can get at least $300 back out of it on Craigslist.

In my case, buying an L2 unit was the best option, given my poor driving habits. Also, you can forget about preheating on those cold, frosty mornings, while plugged up with a L1, if that matters to you. The L2 handles it just fine.

Now that the weather is warming up it's not quite as critical to have the L2. However, the 4.5 hour charge times are great and worth every penny of the $800.

I guess that I should have added that I can't charge at work, but there is ONE, free L2 charging station five minutes away from my job. It's usually occupied when I get there. There are two L2's at the local Nissan dealership, but its 15 to 20 minutes out of my way going home.

I have two small children and there is something always going on so.....for me the charger is well worth it.

LeftieBiker said:

Charging with L-1 at 120 volts at home isn't hard - I do it. Driving an EV with no ability to charge at home, or with that ability uncertain is unwise to say the least. Also, it's an "EVSE" or "charging cable", not a charger. The charger is inside the car.

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I generally agree. As for EVSEs for L1 and L2 charging and the charger being on-board the car, OP can see http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14728&p=332668#p332668" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

FWIW, I have no L2 EVSE at home.

I get free L2 charging at work and have an ICEV as my "range extender". I only charge @ home (at slow 120 volts) on weekends. If I don't drive the Leaf much on the weekend or take a side trip on Friday night, I can skip charging at home. I sometimes use free public L2 charging and have used free CHAdeMO DC fast charging 7 times, so far.

Graffi said:

You will have to make a lifestyle change to do all charging away from home. Maybe do more reading or work in your car, or listen to book on tape/CD.
...
Charging at home only costs about $0.01 per minute in electricity cost so the time spent away from home and other activities is much greater that the cost of energy.

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Agreed. For me, when I use free public charging, I often stay w/my car and catch up on emails on my phone or reading forum posts. One place w/7 free L2 J1772 handles is near some places to eat, so I sometimes walk over to the nearby Chipotle to eat.

I know someone who does what you are thinking and it works ok for her.

She works regular shifts with L2 at work. In Raleigh, there are a number of free L2s at destinations. That is what she does on weekends. It is doable but not exactly convenient 100% of the time. Around here we can keep to modest speeds and distances.

I have free L2 at work and often don't charge at home on the weekends. I am married and my wife has an ICE so I could skip home charging entirely. But... the best Leaf value proposition (both $ and environment) involves putting as many miles as you can on the car (vs driving an ICE) to help minimize the relative contribution of calender degradation. I always hate to hear about someone with 3 year calendar degradation that only put 8000 miles on the car. That is a waste.

BTW, OP mentioned he lives in So Cal and also mentioned Ralph's (another giveaway for those familiar w/that area).

OP, can you update your location info via User Control Panel (near top) > Profile (left side)? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

What are your daily driving needs in terms of miles? How much city vs. highway? Will you have the ability to charge at your work/destinations?

As for QCing at a dealer, it could be broken, there could be a line, you could become unwelcome or the dealer might start charging $. See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=15867" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for context. The CHAdeMO DC FC at the closest Nissan dealer to me and its sister station were both broken for weeks. Heck, even the DC FC at http://api.plugshare.com/view/location/13491" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; was broken for weeks. (I've never used that one, yet.)

Someone I know posted about DC FCing at Boardwalk Nissan (was free). Problem was there were 5 Leafs in line behind her.

Most dealers don't open till 9am and lock the station over night, and what if their station breaks down? Pay the extra money or get one modified from EVSE Upgrades.

Thanks for all the replies. I live in Socal, specifically the Playa del Rey/Playa Vista area. This would be secondary commuter car with about 12-15 miles a day (20 miles max). I'm also trying to convince my apartment to let me access the 120v plugs for overnight.

Is there some sort of cap as to how many free/Charge Point charge ups one can get at the dealership? Nissan South Bay in Manhattan Beach would be the closest. I don't mind paying for the Charge Point and Blink networks but the Quick Charge would be the most time efficient.

Reading about the long lines and getting ICEd is certainly worrying. But the Leaf is just so much car for the money, compared to cheaper lease for a Focus, Civic etc...

If you can get 120 volt access at home, you should be OK with 15-20 miles per day.

Alternately, if you can plug in at work, it would be OK.

Planning on using public charging exclusively would not be wise.

BrownLeaf said:

With quick charge option, it would be about 20 mins at the local dealership that's 15 minutes away.

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20 Mins on a L3 will fill you up to 80%, to get up to 100% will take another 25 mins.

Then you say it's 15 mins away. Is that highway miles or Local?, How many miles will you have left when you get home?


I cannot function without a Level 2 at home.

There are times when I get home at 11PM and need to leave by 6AM, with a L1 that is not going to happen.

I sort of do this at a location I drive to regularly.

I have one of those "240 from 2 out of phase 120 outlet" hookups, and have an EVSE upgrade that makes good use of the 240 charging L2.

Charges pretty quickly.

It works.

If you are committed to this, and understand what you are getting into, you can make it work.

Lasareath said:

BrownLeaf said:

With quick charge option, it would be about 20 mins at the local dealership that's 15 minutes away.

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20 Mins on a L3 will fill you up to 80%, to get up to 100% will take another 25 mins.

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Ummm... That's not quite right either. IIRC, one of the cases I encountered w/someone w/bad charging etiquette who had left their car w/no contact info plugged in and going, well into taper phase (drawing less than 4 kW on the DC FC even though their car has a 6 kW OBC) was plugged into a http://nissanqc.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for over 50 minutes, possibly 54 minutes. They still were not full.

Charging power and speed are much faster if you start off w/an empty or new empty battery and can pretty quickly taper.

TonyWilliams said:

If you can get 120 volt access at home, you should be OK with 15-20 miles per day.

Alternately, if you can plug in at work, it would be OK.

Planning on using public charging exclusively would not be wise.

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Agreed.