evchels
Gold Member
Posts: 329
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:50 pm

Re: Andy Palmer and Chelsea Sexton Discuss the Nissan LEAF

Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:47 pm

thankyouOB wrote:i like your theory and appreciate the thoughtfulness on your part, but i like allot of theories that turn out to be wrong.


chelsea?
andy?

nissan is debating what issues with regard to announcing a price on the battery?


I obviously can't appropriately answer this on Nissan's behalf. Andy did express concern to me that today's price would scare new folks, though I explained that it was important to some drivers to know for a complete TCO picture. I'm sure there's more to it internally than that, however.

I did bounce the $5000 figure off him though, and was told it's too low even compared to their internal costs.

User avatar
mwalsh
Posts: 9586
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:10 am
Delivery Date: 05 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 0213
Location: Garden Grove, CA

Re: Andy Palmer and Chelsea Sexton Discuss the Nissan LEAF

Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:02 pm

I did bounce the $5000 figure off him though, and was told it's too low even compared to their internal costs.


I figured as much. Should have bet Evdriver that pizza after all. Wish he'd cut the snark and deliver only facts. :?
2011 Blue Ocean SL with 78,000 miles
2015 pack on 12/30/15
Tinted windows
Bridgestone Ecopia 422+ tires
L1 EVSE upgrade
FIAMM horns
Superbright LED lighting
2013 sun visors
LED shifter
Heated seats
GT-R map lamp lenses
Altima illuminated door switches

User avatar
LEAFer
Posts: 2647
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:10 am
Delivery Date: 19 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 000215
Location: Sacramento Area

Re: Andy Palmer and Chelsea Sexton Discuss the Nissan LEAF

Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:07 pm

davewill wrote:They don't want to give us today's answer. LEAF batteries today are made overseas and are probably priced pretty scary due to yen-dollar exchange. Tennessee batteries will be cheaper, and they will likely get cheaper still in 3-8 years when people are actually likely to buy a new battery. So, if they are forced to announce a price, do they scare everyone with a high one? Do they announce a price consistent with the future and just hope they don't get burned by someone insisting on buying now or by the costs not dropping as they project?
The way the Tesla Roadster Replacement Battery Agreement works is quoting a fixed price ($12k) for pack replacement after 7 years from car purchase. Plus a fixed discount ($1k) for each year you wait beyond that, but not exceeding past the ninth year (so $9k is the 10th year price). After the 9th year it's use-it-or-lose-it. Before the 7th year is completed it's not usable (per the contract language). (But ... if you're out of warranty and your Roadster pack drops suddenly and you are in your 6th or start of 7th year ... maybe Tesla would "accomodate" you for a $1k upcharge for each year, but that's just a guess). However, I mention the latter, because for AZ LEAFs that show unusually fast degradation (oops, sorry, Normal Nissan AZ Year performance !) with a non-owner fault situation ( I think you know what I am getting at ... ), maybe Nissan would "accomodate" and pro-rate their 8th-year/100k-miles fixed replacement cost in such a way as to allow early replacement while providing a bit of a discount. Other "normal" regions (12,500 mile Nissan Year places) would get the standard contract without early replacement option.

(The Tesla Agreement does not specify any miles; calendar time only.)

The bottom line is ... with such a future contract price EVERY LEAF prospect can rest somewhat easier, knowing upfront what it MIGHT cost them at a particular point in time. I can't tell you how many times I am asked "how long will the battery last" and "how expensive is it". The answer I give regularly is the EXEMPLARY pioneering Tesla method, and finish up with ... "If Nissan gave me an 8th year as-new replacement battery for an additional 10% of LEAF MSRP upfront I would immediately opt-in." Because it helps me with the resale value of the LEAF if I opt not to keep it that long. ( The LEAF Replacement Battery Agreement would transfer with the car. And to me it's like an insurance policy to cover the long-term risk. I know it's non-refundable ( if the car is totaled for example ), but that part of the factors I can weigh when making the decision to purchase the LEAF RBA. :)

( The time-frame/miles parameters of the RBA could be user-choice for, of course, different cost. Just like extended warranty contracts can be chosen a-la-carte. )

Edit: Keep in mind the $12k Tesla RBA price is for a 56kWh (53kWh) pack of different construction & chemistry. Don't let that price influence the LEAF RBA cost.
Last edited by LEAFer on Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
2011 Silver SL+QC [Mfg: 11/2010] 36mo/15k LEASE
06Jun2013 Status [28.5 months][34,173 miles][11 bars]
Lost CapacityBar 6/6/13 @34,173 miles while in LEAF Battery Monitor: 83.41%, 71.4F (avg); cool overnight;

User avatar
LEAFer
Posts: 2647
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:10 am
Delivery Date: 19 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 000215
Location: Sacramento Area

Re: Andy Palmer and Chelsea Sexton Discuss the Nissan LEAF

Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:11 pm

evchels wrote:I did bounce the $5000 figure off him though, and was told it's too low even compared to their internal costs.
Was it made very clear that the requested price is for an EXCHANGE ***NOT*** a NEW part ? I.e. including a "core charge" whereby the old part is returned to Nissan, for perhaps, refurbishment and reuse ?
2011 Silver SL+QC [Mfg: 11/2010] 36mo/15k LEASE
06Jun2013 Status [28.5 months][34,173 miles][11 bars]
Lost CapacityBar 6/6/13 @34,173 miles while in LEAF Battery Monitor: 83.41%, 71.4F (avg); cool overnight;

Stoaty
Posts: 4468
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:50 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 3871
Location: West Los Angeles

Re: Andy Palmer and Chelsea Sexton Discuss the Nissan LEAF

Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:16 pm

mwalsh wrote:
I did bounce the $5000 figure off him though, and was told it's too low even compared to their internal costs.

I figured as much. Should have bet Evdriver that pizza after all. Wish he'd cut the snark and deliver only facts. :?

Yes, but Ingineer confirmed the $5,000 price. Perhaps the difference is between a new pack and a remanufactured one.
2011 Leaf with 62,000 miles given to Nephew
2013 Tesla Model S85 with 251 miles rated range at full charge
Leaf Spy Manual
Battery Aging Model Spreadsheet

evchels
Gold Member
Posts: 329
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:50 pm

Re: Andy Palmer and Chelsea Sexton Discuss the Nissan LEAF

Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:22 pm

LEAFer wrote:
evchels wrote:I did bounce the $5000 figure off him though, and was told it's too low even compared to their internal costs.
Was it made very clear that the requested price is for an EXCHANGE ***NOT*** a NEW part ? I.e. including a "core charge" whereby the old part is returned to Nissan, for perhaps, refurbishment and reuse ?


Yes. What my own automotive experience hasn't taught me, my better half has! :)

Though in reality, I also told him we'd be happy to take all versions of battery price they were willing to give. Modules, whole packs, core charge or not, etc.

palmermd
Posts: 2524
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:19 pm
Delivery Date: 31 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 1100011011
Location: Hermosa Beach, CA

Re: Andy Palmer and Chelsea Sexton Discuss the Nissan LEAF

Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:24 pm

Stoaty wrote:
mwalsh wrote:
I did bounce the $5000 figure off him though, and was told it's too low even compared to their internal costs.

I figured as much. Should have bet Evdriver that pizza after all. Wish he'd cut the snark and deliver only facts. :?

Yes, but Ingineer confirmed the $5,000 price. Perhaps the difference is between a new pack and a remanufactured one.


I think EVDriver and Ingineer had the same source, and it turned out that source was incorrect. He may have been a reliable source for information in the past, but it looks like they were both fooled by him this time.
Michael

Leaf since 31 March 2011
Driving electric since 1996


First Bar Loss
Second Bar Loss
Third Bar Loss
Fourth Bar Loss

thankyouOB
Posts: 3583
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:14 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 1442
Location: Coastal LA

Re: Andy Palmer and Chelsea Sexton Discuss the Nissan LEAF

Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:01 pm

evchels wrote:
thankyouOB wrote:i like your theory and appreciate the thoughtfulness on your part, but i like allot of theories that turn out to be wrong.


chelsea?
andy?

nissan is debating what issues with regard to announcing a price on the battery?


I obviously can't appropriately answer this on Nissan's behalf. Andy did express concern to me that today's price would scare new folks, though I explained that it was important to some drivers to know for a complete TCO picture. I'm sure there's more to it internally than that, however.

I did bounce the $5000 figure off him though, and was told it's too low even compared to their internal costs.

Wow!
Thanks.
U r the real thing.
may reserve/delivery 4/30/11
--
ECOtality/LADWP/ Blink 4/4/11
--
Gardena Nissan, msrp -1k
red SL with etec L3
SOLAR POWERED since 2008

lukati
Posts: 288
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:23 pm
Delivery Date: 07 Dec 2011

Re: Andy Palmer and Chelsea Sexton Discuss the Nissan LEAF

Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:05 pm

mwalsh wrote:
I did bounce the $5000 figure off him though, and was told it's too low even compared to their internal costs.


I figured as much. Should have bet Evdriver that pizza after all. Wish he'd cut the snark and deliver only facts. :?

While $5k might be too low, there is a limit to how high it can go. According to Bob Lutz, the Volt battery is on the order of $350/kWh. See http://www.forbes.com/sites/boblutz/201 ... olt-costs/

rumpole
Posts: 120
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:13 am
Delivery Date: 19 Dec 2011
Leaf Number: 15266
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Contact: Website Twitter

Re: Andy Palmer and Chelsea Sexton Discuss the Nissan LEAF

Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:53 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:
Volusiano wrote:It seems like Nissan has already known all along that its 80%/70% glide path in 5/10 years is a big drop off up front. So why did Nissan withhold that information from the customer at the point of purchase and let them assume incorrectly that the glide path is linear? Nissan never said anything about the glide path being non-linear with a big drop off up front until the cat was out of the bag and the premature losses in Phoenix started piling up.


They knew...it's precisely why that first capacity bar segment at the top is 15%. That's more than DOUBLE the remaining bars segments.

They just used a non-linear display to match the non-linear degradation, and like normal... didn't tell the consumer.



Can you review again how you measured that the top bar segment is 15% of the capacity?
2012 Brilliant Silver SV followed by 2014 Gunmetal Grey SV and now 2016 Kia Soul EV
Bumper Sticker: This Is What The End Of Gasoline Looks Like -> Get it and others at http://www.zazzle.com/leptoquark

Return to “General / Main Owners Forum”