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theaveng

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 8, 2012
Messages
342
Location
Los Angeles CA
Nice car. Quiet. Has plenty of power. I experimented with "Drive" versus "Eco" modes and couldn't really tell the difference. Both had equal amounts of power for 0-to-60 takeoff. I thought maybe it would be like "rich burn" and "lean burn" in my insight, which has a definite change in power, but that was not the case. So what is the dif between these two?

There was also a strange symbol on the speedometer that looked something like a genie bottle with a circle-shaped gauge? I experimented with Insight-style driving, which involves keeping the "power" gauge as low as possible to minimize fuel use. Also using regen braking to stop the car rather than friction braking. I couldn't figure out if my technique increased the EV's range or not..... I'd have to do a full 100 mile commute to see how far it goes. (I'll rent a leaf in Irvine or Santa Ana, if I can find one.)

Salesman wanted me to sign a 3-year-lease for "around $200". That price sounded way too low. Wouldn't be able to charge the car anyway (no place to plugin at my hotel or workplace).
 
ECO mode should require you to have to push the petal down a lot more to get the same amount of power. It also uses less power for AC/heating and will regen more than Drive mode.

Enterprise has the Leaf to rent in many markets. You should be able to see on their website. You can get a really cheap lease now because they are clearing out inventory for the 2013 model. Just be sure to make sure they aren't hiding any fees, etc.
 
So the only difference between Eco mode and Drive mode is you have to press deeper on the pedal? Hmmm. I thought they would limit the max power available in Eco, similar to how Honda's CVT limits power to 3000rpm to save fuel. But apparently not.

I didn't see any difference in the E or D regen; both seemed about the same when I lifted off the pedal. My salesperson was a bit annoying. He put the car in drive. I switched it to Eco. He put it back in drive. I said, "I want eco."
 
theaveng said:
Both [ECO and D] had equal amounts of power for 0-to-60 takeoff.
Click to expand...
If you put it to the floor for a 0-60 test, there is no difference. The difference shows up at part throttle. And it's just a mapping of pedal position to equivalent throttle amount.

There was also a strange symbol on the speedometer that looked something like a genie bottle with a circle-shaped gauge?
Click to expand...
This may be the "Tree" (economy) gauge. The circular readout is some kind of (determined by Nissan's programmers) efficiency rating. As an Insight driver, you already know the tradeoffs between acceleration, climate control use, and so on. The funny looking figure is really the base of the tree.
I'd have to do a full 100 mile commute to see how far it goes.
Click to expand...
Not sure there's anywhere in California where you could get 100 miles out that car. Maybe not even Shangri-La (Zip code? :D)
 
theaveng said:
Salesman wanted me to sign a 3-year-lease for "around $200". That price sounded way too low. Wouldn't be able to charge the car anyway (no place to plugin at my hotel or workplace).
Click to expand...

I'm curious as to why you've previously expressed interest in the Leaf if you have no where to charge it.
 
The pedal behavior in the LEAF is more like what they did in the Prius, with the Eco/Normal/Power modes. As you say, not limited.

There is one trick some have found. If you start from a stop and abruptly put it to part throttle, it will keep ramping up the motor drive, until you let off some (and you will let off, unless you want to be going 90). Makes the car feel very powerful.

You'd probably appreciate watching the energy into and out of the motor. Press the blue "e" button and select Energy Info. on the center display. This is like the "bubbles" on the main dash, but it isn't quantized or digitized, so it gives better detail.
 
mynameisjim said:
I'm curious as to why you've previously expressed interest in the Leaf if you have no where to charge it.
Click to expand...
I was looking for a way around that.... like maybe plug an extension cord into the hotel or workplace's exterior outlets. I struck-out. (shrug). The main reason I lost interest was the battery issue. Plus I've seen used Leafs for a few thousand less than the new purchase price, so that also dissuaded me. Why pay ~26,000 when you can pay 21,000 instead?

As for today's testdrive: I was at the dealer for service and had an hour to kill, so I drove one. I was actually looking to drive a Honda insight, but the nissan leaf was the first car I came-across.

If I can squeeze 89mpg out of the California interstate, I should be able to get 100 mile out of the Nissan EV. The key is to drive slow & not stop (regen braking is wasteful of energy). Oh and Shangri-la is a WW2 aircraft carrier which launched B-17 bombers against Japan. ;-)
 
theaveng said:
So the only difference between Eco mode and Drive mode is you have to press deeper on the pedal? Hmmm. I thought they would limit the max power available in Eco, similar to how Honda's CVT limits power to 3000rpm to save fuel. But apparently not.

I didn't see any difference in the E or D regen; both seemed about the same when I lifted off the pedal. My salesperson was a bit annoying. He put the car in drive. I switched it to Eco. He put it back in drive. I said, "I want eco."
Click to expand...

no. ECO also lowers energy usage of climate controls as well. ECO provides a higher level of regen but other than that, it has the same access to power as Drive mode. just have to push a little bit farther.

i like ECO in town because it gives me better control of speed. the LEAF accelerates so easily under 40 mph, i find my efficiency suffers at low speeds in Drive because the pedal response is so sensitive
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
theaveng said:
So the only difference between Eco mode and Drive mode is you have to press deeper on the pedal? Hmmm. I thought they would limit the max power available in Eco, similar to how Honda's CVT limits power to 3000rpm to save fuel. But apparently not.

I didn't see any difference in the E or D regen; both seemed about the same when I lifted off the pedal. My salesperson was a bit annoying. He put the car in drive. I switched it to Eco. He put it back in drive. I said, "I want eco."
Click to expand...

no. ECO also lowers energy usage of climate controls as well. ECO provides a higher level of regen but other than that, it has the same access to power as Drive mode. just have to push a little bit farther.
Click to expand...

<snip>
From what I've read here, I believe it's more accurate to say that Eco limits climate control energy usage rather than lowers it. I.E. CC is limited to a maximum draw of 1.5kW (or whatever the number is) in Eco, rather than 5+kW in D. I don't believe there's any change in efficiency in the two modes, Eco just limits how much energy you can use. If the temp is such that the limitation allows you to remain comfortable, great, but if it's really hot or cold and 1.5kW isn't capable of maintaining the conditions you want, you need to switch to D.
 
gsleaf said:
ECO mode should require you to have to push the petal down a lot more to get the same amount of power. It also uses less power for AC/heating and will regen more than Drive mode.

Enterprise has the Leaf to rent in many markets. You should be able to see on their website. You can get a really cheap lease now because they are clearing out inventory for the 2013 model. Just be sure to make sure they aren't hiding any fees, etc.
Click to expand...
My only bad surprise with the LEAF was the brake fluild flush that dealers are pushing every 15K to most owners based on Nissan's recommendation. This cost me around $150 if I remember correctly. Most ICE cars require this only every 60K so nobody really knows why Nissan is recommending this maintenance more frequently. There is a theory going around that it's to give dealers a chance to make a few bucks on us.

Other than that, you'll have to pay for electricity but I guess you know that. The good news is that depending on your kWh cost and what car the LEAF replaces it should be 2 to 3 times cheaper per mile than driving an regular car.
 
bowthom said:
I think the Shari-La launched B-25's against Japan. ;)
Click to expand...
Well, let's get it straight.
Yes, B25s, but from the carrier USS Hornet.
When FDR was queried as to where the bombers were from, he created the fictitious location of Shangri-la. :)
 
ericsf said:
gsleaf said:
ECO mode should require you to have to push the petal down a lot more to get the same amount of power. It also uses less power for AC/heating and will regen more than Drive mode.

Enterprise has the Leaf to rent in many markets. You should be able to see on their website. You can get a really cheap lease now because they are clearing out inventory for the 2013 model. Just be sure to make sure they aren't hiding any fees, etc.
Click to expand...
My only bad surprise with the LEAF was the brake fluild flush that dealers are pushing every 15K to most owners based on Nissan's recommendation. This cost me around $150 if I remember correctly. Most ICE cars require this only every 60K so nobody really knows why Nissan is recommending this maintenance more frequently. There is a theory going around that it's to give dealers a chance to make a few bucks on us.

Other than that, you'll have to pay for electricity but I guess you know that. The good news is that depending on your kWh cost and what car the LEAF replaces it should be 2 to 3 times cheaper per mile than driving an regular car.
Click to expand...
There are a bunch of threads, and lots of discussion about the "brake fluid flush and change". It's just a way for dealers to make a little profit on servicing your Leaf, since there's not much recurring maintenance on this car. Having your brake fluid changed every 15K miles is absolutely unnecessary---might as well just throw your money away. :roll:
 
ericsf said:
Most ICE cars require this only every 60K so nobody really knows why Nissan is recommending this maintenance more frequently. There is a theory going around that it's to give dealers a chance to make a few bucks on us.
Click to expand...

Yes, most ICE cars require it every 60k or higher... but their owners manuals ask for it to be done earlier. Most people don't read it and most shops don't ask for it because the shops know they will get the money from other services.
 
Yep, that is exactly what it is about! And if you read the service schedule, that is only recommended under the severe schedule. No one operates a EV under severe. I declined their "offer" when i brought mine in for the battery report...

ericsf said:
My only bad surprise with the LEAF was the brake fluild flush that dealers are pushing every 15K to most owners based on Nissan's recommendation. This cost me around $150 if I remember correctly. There is a theory going around that it's to give dealers a chance to make a few bucks on us.
Click to expand...
 
ericsf said:
My only bad surprise with the LEAF was the brake fluild flush that dealers are pushing every 15K to most owners based on Nissan's recommendation. This cost me around $150 if I remember correctly. Most ICE cars require this only every 60K so nobody really knows why Nissan is recommending this maintenance more frequently. There is a theory going around that it's to give dealers a chance to make a few bucks on us.
Click to expand...
Based on looking at the diagrams in the service manual of the brake manifold, my theory about this is that the Nissan LEAF contains the most complex braking system ever included in a production car and it is VERY sensitive to fluid abnormalities. As such, I'll pay for the service, but only every two years.

Here's an image from page BR-11 of the Service Manual:LEAFBrakeManifold.png
 
When I testdrove the Leaf yesterday I couldn't help noticing they advertised 96 - 110 mile range on the window. Even new that's unlikely and after just 20,000 miles the battery will have degraded to the point it's impossible. Nissan is deliberately misleading the public. (The law only allows advertising the EPA rating/range.)

BTW if I had a bad battery that could no longer carry me the 60 miles to work, I'd deliberately run it out of range, and then call Nissan Road Service to pick me up and taxi me the rest of the way. Every day. Let the battery issue be as big a hassle for Nissan as it is for me.
 
I have had my Leaf for 1 month now. I just can't find anything negative to say about the car. The headlights are a bit odd looking but that's as close as I can come to a negative comment. The guys at work have been so impressed with my Leaf experience that 2 of them are picking up their new Leaf tomorrow, and a third coworker is considering one too.

Being a new Leaf owner (lease), I have been reading through many threads on mynissanleaf. It appears to me that most Leaf owners have positive reviews and that most negative comments come from those who don't own one. I experience that same effect from coworkers. It surprises me how many people tell me what the Leaf CANNOT do, rather than what its assets are. Usually the 'cannot' comments are about its range. What they are describing is range anxiety. My range anxiety went away after the first week of ownership. My favorite negative comment received was from someone that doesn't own one and hasn't even test driven one. He informed me that if I run out of charge while driving on the freeway that it will destroy the batteries and they will have to be replaced. Maybe he was thinking about a flashlight.

When my wife and I test drove a Leaf we were trying to answer 2 questions: Can I reliably make my daily commute to work (even in Minnesota winters) and is it economically a good decision. To test the commute, we turned on everything electrical including heat while on the defrost setting so the AC would run, and drove it from the dealership to my employer, then to my home, and then back to the dealership, and did this drive on the freeway at as high a speed as we thought we could get away with. We still had 37 miles (non-eco) left. The test drive was 51 miles round trip which is 6 miles more than my daily commute. We felt that there was enough extra mileage to feel comfortable. Right now it is end of month and end of model year so there are some good deals to be had. Both of our questions were answered positively so we leased. Perhaps I will have a slightly different view in a year or two, but right now I would have no reservation encouraging others to get a Leaf.

I will also add a comment about changing the brake fluid since it has been mentioned in this thread. I asked my dealer about that. He replied that it is recommended but not required. I believe that the only requirement is that once a year you allow the dealer to connect their test equipment to the battery to assess its condition. I just can't imagine a lower maintenance vehicle than that.

The final comment that I will make is regarding gasoline. At first I grinned each time I drove past the gas station near my home. I thought how nice it is not to buy $4.00 gasoline. Now I don't even think about the gas station as I drive by.... even though I did stop once to get a snack. When I paid for it, I really wanted the cashier to ask: Did you have gas? But she didn't ask. I think I had a funny remark planned, but didn't get to use it.
 
WhiteBearLake said:
I have had my Leaf for 1 month now. I just can't find anything negative to say about the car. The headlights are a bit odd looking but that's as close as I can come to a negative comment. The guys at work have been so impressed with my Leaf experience that 2 of them are picking up their new Leaf tomorrow, and a third coworker is considering one too.

Being a new Leaf owner (lease), I have been reading through many threads on mynissanleaf. It appears to me that most Leaf owners have positive reviews and that most negative comments come from those who don't own one. I experience that same effect from coworkers. It surprises me how many people tell me what the Leaf CANNOT do, rather than what its assets are. Usually the 'cannot' comments are about its range. What they are describing is range anxiety. My range anxiety went away after the first week of ownership. My favorite negative comment received was from someone that doesn't own one and hasn't even test driven one. He informed me that if I run out of charge while driving on the freeway that it will destroy the batteries and they will have to be replaced. Maybe he was thinking about a flashlight.

When my wife and I test drove a Leaf we were trying to answer 2 questions: Can I reliably make my daily commute to work (even in Minnesota winters) and is it economically a good decision. To test the commute, we turned on everything electrical including heat while on the defrost setting so the AC would run, and drove it from the dealership to my employer, then to my home, and then back to the dealership, and did this drive on the freeway at as high a speed as we thought we could get away with. We still had 37 miles (non-eco) left. The test drive was 51 miles round trip which is 6 miles more than my daily commute. We felt that there was enough extra mileage to feel comfortable. Right now it is end of month and end of model year so there are some good deals to be had. Both of our questions were answered positively so we leased. Perhaps I will have a slightly different view in a year or two, but right now I would have no reservation encouraging others to get a Leaf.

I will also add a comment about changing the brake fluid since it has been mentioned in this thread. I asked my dealer about that. He replied that it is recommended but not required. I believe that the only requirement is that once a year you allow the dealer to connect their test equipment to the battery to assess its condition. I just can't imagine a lower maintenance vehicle than that.

The final comment that I will make is regarding gasoline. At first I grinned each time I drove past the gas station near my home. I thought how nice it is not to buy $4.00 gasoline. Now I don't even think about the gas station as I drive by.... even though I did stop once to get a snack. When I paid for it, I really wanted the cashier to ask: Did you have gas? But she didn't ask. I think I had a funny remark planned, but didn't get to use it.
Click to expand...
I'm very glad that you did a simulated winter range test before buying, and I wish all Leaf owners who had marginal commutes (for the car) did so before buying or leasing. I look forward to reading your reports when winter really arrives, and your range is also reduced due to temperature-lowered battery capacity and denser air. I think you've got enough margin available to handle several years of battery degradation.

Good luck, and enjoy!
 
Actually, the hydraulic side of the Leaf braking system is absolutely conventional and no different from most any other conventional car. And that is what determines brake fluid requirements and change intervals...

RegGuheert said:
Based on looking at the diagrams in the service manual of the brake manifold, my theory about this is that the Nissan LEAF contains the most complex braking system ever included in a production car and it is VERY sensitive to fluid abnormalities.
Click to expand...
 

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