Hotel chain sustainability director desires advice on QCs

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DNAinaGoodWay

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 17, 2012
Messages
2,774
Location
Central Massachusetts
Got this email and figure this guy, and similar people, would benefit from more responses than just mine:


Good morning Jerome,
 
Joe passed along your note about our EV station. You are indeed correct, we’re working with U-GO for the stations at Comfort Inn in Revere, and they are also installing two stations at our property in Norwood, MA, a Hampton Inn.
 
We don’t yet have the details on how they will charge – I know in Massachusetts you cannot charge by kWh, so it is either and hourly or a per use charge. Do you have a suggestion as to how to charge so that people only use what they need and don’t block the spot unnecessarily?  I’d love to be able to suggest that.
 
Rumor has it (from my electrician) that our level 3 unit is being commissioned today. We are also getting a level 2 unit, but it is not installed yet.
 
Can I ask, anything you’ve noticed as an EV owner that we should be thinking about? If you were to come to a hotel or a restaurant, what would you find most accommodating or most annoying? I want to make sure we make this a success!
 
Thanks,

Scot
 
Scot Hopps | Director of Sustainability
Saunders Hotel Group | 61 Exeter Street | Boston, MA 02116
(P) 617-421-4918| [email protected]
 
DNAinaGoodWay said:
Got this email and figure this guy, and similar people, would benefit from more responses than just mine:


Good morning Jerome,
 
Joe passed along your note about our EV station. You are indeed correct, we’re working with U-GO for the stations at Comfort Inn in Revere, and they are also installing two stations at our property in Norwood, MA, a Hampton Inn.
 
We don’t yet have the details on how they will charge – I know in Massachusetts you cannot charge by kWh, so it is either and hourly or a per use charge. Do you have a suggestion as to how to charge so that people only use what they need and don’t block the spot unnecessarily?  I’d love to be able to suggest that.
 
Rumor has it (from my electrician) that our level 3 unit is being commissioned today. We are also getting a level 2 unit, but it is not installed yet.
 
Can I ask, anything you’ve noticed as an EV owner that we should be thinking about? If you were to come to a hotel or a restaurant, what would you find most accommodating or most annoying? I want to make sure we make this a success!
 
Thanks,

Scot
 
Scot Hopps | Director of Sustainability
Saunders Hotel Group | 61 Exeter Street | Boston, MA 02116
(P) 617-421-4918| [email protected]

I would think hourly is the only way to keep people from sitting on the pot. I personally think the most annoying and frustrating thing is EV only parking spots that are not policed or enforced.
 
our L2 units at work just started charging $1 per hour charging or not, thus if you leave it there for the whole day, it will cost more than using a gas car. that is a great incentive to move the car. on a QC, I'd say the first 20 minutes should be free and the charge $20 per hour, prorated from the 1st connection.... You will see people move the car at minute 19..... Or stay for the full hour at $20(not more than once). amazing how cost activates our behavior.
 
For L3's
A Charge per Period (X) 20min = $X (0-20mins) , X * 2 for (21-40 minutes) X * 3 for 41+ minutes.
Set up L3 area so two cars can be there @ same time, So if Car 1 driver is missing after the L3 go to trickle mode, Car 2 driver can move L3 plug over to that car.

For L2's
Cords long enough so 1 unit can server 2 parking spaces, two unit 4 spaces.
Mark the space for EV only. Enough away from the front door so policing the spaces will not be a issue.

Hourly Charge, for non Guests, (Desk should have Info Sheet of nearby thing to do (walking distance).
Set fee for Guests, So they can leave there car there charging overnight. From say 10p-8a For $X (3-4 hr charge rate)
Desk Clerks should keep a list of room number of EV so if a 5th Guest arrives needing the EV spaces, S/He can call them to move there car when its fully charged.

Hotel Should have a EV Info sheet for the Guests, Politely asking them to move there car to Non/EV space when there car has Full charged.
 
Free L2 for guests would be my suggestion. Maybe a small daily access fee if demand goes crazy.
Public can pay $1 or $2 per hour for the time connected.
The impact on your electric bill will not even be noticed without some very detailed analysis.
And don't put them right by the door to be parked up by the non EVs. Install where parking is a bit less used.
L3 would be more to promote the onsite restaurant.
JMHO
 
if there is valet, put them in charge of it.
otherwise, put the L2 far away from the entrance with clear posting about moving after charging and asking guests to notify that they are in that spot. you could also use a key, key card or turn on device at the desk.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
Why is a hotel installing L3? Unless it's one of those hotels that charges by the hour :lol: :lol:

Not amusing. They're very close to Logan International Airport, would see a lot of traffic, great location for folks shuttling others to/from flights.

They're also very green, buying into renewable energy, and corporations like this deserve support, not mindless humor.

I hope they actually make a good ROI. If it's as popular as I hope it will be, I hope they expand to multiple QCs.
 
My reply email to Scot, just for reference.

Hi Scot,

As far as I know you can't charge by the kWh in MA, but that is soon to change. I've emailed my contact in the MA DOE to see where that policy is at. Per kWh fees are the simplest and fairest method as EVs can vary in the speed they charge, with hugh variations in how many kWhs they can consume per hour.

U-Go uses the Greenlots network in NJ and PA, and their administration programs are very flexible in how you can set and change your fees.

The best method in MA up until now is exemplified by the QC at UMass Amherst. If you go up on http://www.plugshare.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and filter for fast chargers, CHAdeMO, which is what your getting, one of the types of quick chargers (QC), then scroll the map to Amherst MA and click on the UMass QC, you'll see that they charge $5/hr, $1 minimum, but prorated after that so they only charge you for the time you're connected, so $1 for every 12 minutes, or $0.50 per 3 min, or $0.17 per min.

You might charge more for your location, but that's the best method until charging by the kWH is allowed. I believe you have a say in how much and what fee method you want. As long as U-Go gets their cut.

EVs charge faster when they're batteries are low. As the battery fills up, the charge rate slows way down to protect the battery pack from overheating. So, most people, if they only need a little topping up to make it to their destination, will only charge for as long as that takes, because public charging is much more expensive than charging at home, but we depend on it to travel beyond our full battery's range, so we're willing to pay extra for the range extension, and to maintain the infrastructure so we can travel again later. Having well maintained, available stations that we can depend on is our primary concern.

Most EVs in MA today that will use CHAdeMO QC are Nissan LEAFs, or Mitsubishi iMievs, they are limited to 60-80 miles range and can re-charge from E to F on your QC in 30-45 min. (Takes longer in the cold of winter) A Tesla has up to four times the size of those cars battery packs, and could be there for two hours or more. Some QC stations have one hour time limits for this reason, but generally it hasn't been a problem here yet, not enough EVs yet to cause overcrowding.

You may find in future that having multiple QCs is best, if you're experiencing heavy usage. Many Tesla stations have 8 stalls. A location near Logan such as yours is ideal for people dropping off and picking up, you could be very popular.

Other types of EVs can only use the Level 2 chargers, which they will be plugged into for one to several hours. These are best suited to restaurant sites or overnight guests. In fact, you can add Level 1, 120 volt units, to your network, which are all thats required by overnight guests with cars such as the Plug-in-Prius, Chevy Volt, Ford C-Max Energi, and Honda Fit.

BMW has just released the i3, and Volkswagen will soon sell the eGolf, both of which use the SAE Combo fast Charger, not CHAdeMO. It's kind of like the old VHS/Betamax rivalry. The market hasn't settled on a standard yet. But U-Go can provide dual handled stations when the BMWs and VWs become more numerous.

Good signage is important. Stations blocked by gas cars are often a problem. It's new, and many people don't recognize what it is, and why it's important to leave the space open. Similar to Handicapped spots, except it's actually better to not have the spots in prime locations, in terms of gas cars parking there. A less used area is blocked less. Likewise, EVs plugged in, but no longer charging can block a space. If you can site them so that the plug can reach multiple slots, for plug sharing, it can be helpful. Some stations charge increasing fees after the first hour, to prevent station hogging.

Sorry if I'm going on too long here. It's a lot to digest. If you read posts, or use the search function on http://www.mynissanleaf.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, you'll find tons of info. EVs are new here, but all of these issues have been being hashed out on the west coast for years now, and the forum is very active.

For me, when I travel far enough so I need to charge to get home (Worcester), I look for a QC such as yours, unless I'm in Boston all day, then a level 2 is fine. It's risky because there aren't that many, and if I'm low on charge I have to have a plan B if the one I was depending on is broken or blocked or in use for an unpredictable amount of time. It's not like gas stations yet, where they're everywhere, with multiple pumps. I'm very happy when I can charge with no problems.

Scot, I have to go make some salmon for supper. Please feel free to email me, or join us on the forum. Even better, go for a test ride and lease an EV, (don't buy yet, the tech is moving fast), you can charge at work. MA offers $2500 and the feds $7500, what other cars can you lease that are subsidized? My payment is $149/month and I haven't bought gas in almost 2 years now. I have solar at home, so even the electricity is free. Heck, the solar makes me money. The cars are soon going to have twice the range too.

Gotta go eat.

Jerome
 
DNAinaGoodWay said:
LTLFTcomposite said:
Why is a hotel installing L3? Unless it's one of those hotels that charges by the hour :lol: :lol:

Not amusing. They're very close to Logan International Airport, would see a lot of traffic, great location for folks shuttling others to/from flights.

I hope they actually make a good ROI. If it's as popular as I hope it will be, I hope they expand to multiple QCs.

So it is just about making money on QC as a business division? Good luck.
 
I can see a QC (at least breaking even) or making few $'s. Most EV changing station are going to drive traffic, to that location for them to make money on other Items.

What do you do while the car is charging?

Quick meal in the hotel Restaurant / Bar? Additional Revenue.
Small Fee for "Free Shuttle" to/from Airport for Chargers to meet/pickup/drop off passengers?



I heard the Atlanta Airport just put out a RFP to put a QC charger in the Cell-Phone lot.

ATL is just out of the round trip range of my leaf,

Since I'm doing Drop-off / Pick-up, I won't be spend hours at the airport a QC to get me enough of a charge to get me back home is what i need.

There are parking lots that have L1 & L2 . (The ones I know of charge $5 extra for EV Valet). Time is not a factor in charging the car, its going to be in the lot for a few days. They have it charged by the time you get back. But once you are charged they move your car out of the EV space, to do next car.
 
smkettner said:
DNAinaGoodWay said:
LTLFTcomposite said:
Why is a hotel installing L3? Unless it's one of those hotels that charges by the hour :lol: :lol:

Not amusing. They're very close to Logan International Airport, would see a lot of traffic, great location for folks shuttling others to/from flights.

I hope they actually make a good ROI. If it's as popular as I hope it will be, I hope they expand to multiple QCs.

So it is just about making money on QC as a business division? Good luck.

Is it? I don't know. They haven't decided on pricing yet. But they seem to have an eco-friendly philosophy if you check out their website. But if stations are to proliferate, an economic incentive will surely help. I would certainly like there to be many more QCs that are well maintained that I can rely on. And if environmentalism has an economic driver, so much the better.

I wish them luck too.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
Why is a hotel installing L3? Unless it's one of those hotels that charges by the hour :lol: :lol:

On second thought, there are hotels like that here. Not sure if they'd be interested in QCs, even for the extra revenue, but since many EVs are driven by older men who might need a nap, it could be a good fit for them. You could start a chain called the Nap Inn. :lol:
 
Make sure they stub out conduit for more stations in the future. 2 L2 and 1 QC will not be enough for very long and will make it a LOT cheaper to install more stations in the future.

What's the capacity of the hotel?
 
flyonpa said:
drees said:
What's the capacity of the hotel?
208 rooms

http://www.comfortinnboston.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
While I suspect that 2 L2 and a QC would be sufficient initially (6 months or so), once word gets out that the hotel has charging, I think you'll probably find that 4-6 L2 stations may be required not to far into the future. For that reason, I strongly believe that stubbing out conduit for future plugs would be very beneficial. For hotel use, even L1 plugs would be sufficient, at least for many plug-in-hybrid drivers, which could be a very cost-effective alternative compare to L2 stations.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
Why is a hotel installing L3? Unless it's one of those hotels that charges by the hour :lol: :lol:

L3 is rather unusual for a Hotel since guests will spend multiple hours there. Better to spend the money on L2's and allow guests to charge for free. (Unless you want guests to get up in the middle of the night to move their vehicle).
 
I like that idea. Perhaps one pedestal in the middle of 4 parking spots (2x2) with 4 high powered level 2 10 kW ( we an dream) each

JPWhite said:
LTLFTcomposite said:
Why is a hotel installing L3? Unless it's one of those hotels that charges by the hour :lol: :lol:

L3 is rather unusual for a Hotel since guests will spend multiple hours there. Better to spend the money on L2's and allow guests to charge for free. (Unless you want guests to get up in the middle of the night to move their vehicle).
 
JPWhite said:
LTLFTcomposite said:
Why is a hotel installing L3? Unless it's one of those hotels that charges by the hour :lol: :lol:

L3 is rather unusual for a Hotel since guests will spend multiple hours there. Better to spend the money on L2's and allow guests to charge for free. (Unless you want guests to get up in the middle of the night to move their vehicle).

Hotel & Restaurants are great places to put L3's Given the time it takes to Charge our Leafs Plug in, go eat, Come out 30-45min later your car is all charged up.

Beats a "Gas" station / Convenience store, or sitting in your car for 45min watching a movie/TV show off WiFi, or your data/card.

My Hope is the NextGen of Charger is a L2.5 Double charger, L3 for 30min/80%, then it switches to the L2 mode, moves the L3 Power to the next car that is staged, thru a different plug, off same unit.
 
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