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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:28 am 
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Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 9:50 am
Posts: 174
Location: Richmond - Lexington Kentucky
Delivery Date: 23 Jun 2012
Leaf Number: 21857
Quote:
Or the 6.6kW charger might be more efficient and be content with 7.2kW (which is 240V@30A) to put 6.6kW into the battery.


Goot point. I think people get worked up is because people get worked up. Is it a 6kW charger like I see all over this forum, or is it 6.6kW like the Nissan website states? My guess is Nissan is correct and we will find that it is 6.6kW into the battery at 240 volts, just like Nissan was correct that it is 3.3kW into the battery at 240 volts. I wasn't saying Nissan was wrong, but if they are wrong, they have continued to stand by their 6.6kW claim for months now. All I know is the 3.3kW charger isn't very useful for a quick pick me up at the Nissan Dealer when I'm running short. Twice as fast would be great, since we drive past the Nissan dealership about 10 miles from our house. Half an hour sitting there beats an hour, or a tow, any day. (of course the dealership likely has 208 volts powering their EVSE)

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:44 am 
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Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 9:50 am
Posts: 174
Location: Richmond - Lexington Kentucky
Delivery Date: 23 Jun 2012
Leaf Number: 21857
Quote:
What are the best charging options for a 2013 Leaf assuming I go for a stand alone piece of equipment that I would have installed in a garage?


Answer: 30A EVSE on 40A circuit

Quote:
What type of an electrical connection do I need to have installed to put the stand alone option in? (I just saw an ad on the top of this page for a Nissan certified unit that plugs into a 240V 12A outlet - so all I need to have preinstalled is a 240V 12 A outlet?).


Answer: 40A circuit hardwired to 30A EVSE (the ad you noticed is not the EVSE you really want)

Quote:
What are the options if I go for an EVSE upgrade cable that I've read about on this forum?


Answer: You would use a 20A circuit for this unit, with a L6-20 receptacle. Like Planet4ever suggested

Quote:
If I go with the EVSE upgrade cable, do I still get the 240V 12 A outlet as that is what the cord would plug into?


Answer: No, See Planet4Ever's post, you will need a 20A circuit, there really is no "homeowner" 12A circuit, plus there is a need to overrate the circuit due to the duration of the charge. You would need a 20A circuit.

Quote:
Lastly, is there a faster charge alternative realistic for a homeowner, 16A? Something that takes advantage of the faster charge on the higher end Leaf model?


Answer: Yes. The 30A EVSE is the standard homeowner EVSE, and it is installed on a 40A circuit. If you have 200A service like most moderen homes, this should not be a problem. Your electrician will need to do a load calculation, but most of the time you would be able to add a 40A circuit to a 200A panel.

We were getting a bit off topic, I wanted to re-address the OP with a clear mind, not distracted by Kentucky basketball (and an unexpected win!)

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:07 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:51 am
Posts: 5244
kentuckyleaf wrote:
Quote:
Or the 6.6kW charger might be more efficient and be content with 7.2kW (which is 240V@30A) to put 6.6kW into the battery.


Goot point. I think people get worked up is because people get worked up. Is it a 6kW charger like I see all over this forum, or is it 6.6kW like the Nissan website states? My guess is Nissan is correct and we will find that it is 6.6kW into the battery at 240 volts, just like Nissan was correct that it is 3.3kW into the battery at 240 volts. I wasn't saying Nissan was wrong, but if they are wrong, they have continued to stand by their 6.6kW claim for months now. All I know is the 3.3kW charger isn't very useful for a quick pick me up at the Nissan Dealer when I'm running short. Twice as fast would be great, since we drive past the Nissan dealership about 10 miles from our house. Half an hour sitting there beats an hour, or a tow, any day. (of course the dealership likely has 208 volts powering their EVSE)



Another common EV misconception is that one needs faster charging at home but few ever use it but think it is a must. I have almost 7kw charging on my LEAF and I always charge at about 3.xxkw at home. When I travel to parking garages etc, I always charge at the max rate of about 6.XXkw simply because that is when it is practical. Many new EV owners think they need the fastest charging possible at home simply because they have a lack of practical experience and charging history or have some fear of missing out on something they don't use. I lost count of how many people think they need L3 at home but when questioned don't even need 3.8kw. Some users with unique circumstances need more than say 3.xx at home but these folks are also those that usually use an EV outside the common parameters as well. If the LEAF had a much larger pack like the RAV4 then this principal would need to be scaled up but the true utility is for traveling.

I do intend to have the output of my upgraded EVSE changed to support about 20A since this is about 4.8kw and is not only more than adequate for home use but is very useful for portable use as well for the occasional dryer outlet share when at a friends. This will charge a LEAF in most cases in a few hours without concerns of a larger circuit.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:18 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:16 am
Posts: 22
Location: New Jersey
Delivery Date: 19 Apr 2013
Leaf Number: 404149
You guys are awesome. Can't believe the amount of responses and real info here.

Not sure if this strongly influences any suggestions, but my plan is to lease, not buy. I'm comfortable with the extra costs of doing so, and am willing to pay it for the piece of mind that in 2 or 3 years depending on which way I go, I can trade the car in for the next gen Leaf - I'm hoping - with over 100 mile range. I'm getting the SL or SV so I think either has the faster charger option capability

I would love to be able to go with the cheaper option of simply an upgraded EVSE cable, but it seems like from the info here, I'm really sacrificing a significant amount of charging time capability by going that route (I need to read some of the info posted here again as I don't have an engineer background at all and am getting lost in the details posted).

But from a first read, it seems like:

I can save some $$ on the electrician install by going with a 20A circuit of a simple outlet and then a EVSE cable upgrade. Seems like this should cost something like $1k or so for the electrician plus I seem to recall seeing something like $400 or so for the upgrade to the cable.

I would have to deal with the upgraded cable at lease turn in but have seen suggestions that it can be traded perhaps with other forum members.

I can spend a little more on the electrician for the 40A circuit, maybe 1400, and that would give me a connection to a device that I would purchase for about $800 to 1k. The device would provide a faster charge, more than double the time to charge of the cable option. But this will be much more future proof and likely to support whatever next electric car I get.

My house is fairly new, 2 150A panels? I think, so should be fine for either option. And the panels or about 6 feet from the spot where the charger would go so I don't anticipate a problem on either option running the wiring. So bottom line sounds like about $400 or so difference for an electrician to put 40 vs 20A and about 500 difference for the unit itself over the upgraded cable. Am I reading it right?

If that is the case, seems like the extra $1k for futureproofing plus the extra charging time bonus seems worth it.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:34 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:23 pm
Posts: 282
Delivery Date: 07 Dec 2011
Your situation sounds ideal. The additional cost for the larger wires should be minimal.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:50 am 
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Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 9:50 am
Posts: 174
Location: Richmond - Lexington Kentucky
Delivery Date: 23 Jun 2012
Leaf Number: 21857
Quote:
Many new EV owners think they need the fastest charging possible at home simply because they have a lack of practical experience and charging history or have some fear of missing out on something they don't use.


Right, you might not use any more than 3.8kW at home. Maybe not ever. But if you might want to charge after work and before going out for the evening, the $200 (more or less) extra you spend on the 30A EVSE installation will be well spent. If you might someday have visitors that want to charge, the $200 will be well spent. In my expierence, granted only 8 months of Leaf ownership, we often charge after work before an evening out. We often have less than 20 miles range after commuting, especially in the winter, and need to charge for an hour or more before taking the Leaf for a meal. We could fire up the frozen solid ICE and let it warm up and take that to town, but that really stinks when the Leaf is warm and in the garage, just a few miles short of enough range for the trip. There are many times I wish the 2012 had the 6.6kW charger, and it is comforting to know that I am ready to use that capacity with my current 30A EVSE, which by the way was cheaper for me to install than the 16A EVSE upgrade would have cost, considering I would have needed to purchase the entire upgraded unit since I'm leasing.

Before you ask, we work in one town and spend our evenings out in another. This is the community we live in, have friends and relatives in, and desire to support, so it isn't like we want to stop somewhere on the way home.

Other things to maybe consider. If you have a fire, what would your insurance company think about the EVSE upgrade? I'm not saying they would deny your claim, but you would need to figure that out for yourself. I understand the EVSE upgrade is not likely to be the source of the fire, but would that even matter to a company that is looking for ANY reason to deny a claim? If I'm making a recommendation to a layman, it will be to utilize UL listed equipment, installed by a licensed electrician, properly permitted and inspected. Period.

my two cents

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Last edited by kentuckyleaf on Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:02 am 
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Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 9:50 am
Posts: 174
Location: Richmond - Lexington Kentucky
Delivery Date: 23 Jun 2012
Leaf Number: 21857
you posted while I was typing my post, so update. If your panel is 6 feet from your EVSE, the difference in a 20A circuit and 40A circuit is about none. The electrician will spend the same time obtaining permits, rolling the truck, and installing the EVSE. Part cost will likely be the same for hardwired 30A EVSE and 20A outlet, because all the electrician needs to purchase is a 8 awg pigtail, and no outlet parts to hardwire the EVSE (in addition to the breaker). If I was bidding the jobs, both the 20A and 40A circuit would run about $300.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:13 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:13 pm
Posts: 6125
Location: Orange County, CA
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2014
Since you will have a 6kw charger in the car I recommend the Schneider or Leviton 30 amp evse installed on a 40 amp circuit. If you really want to future proof maybe get the 40a Leviton on a 50 amp circuit. If you want to be cheep then the small Leviton o a 20a circuit will serve fine. HomeDepot.com is fine but you might save $100 shopping around.

I would only do the evse upgrade if you will be frequently charging at a location with 240v circuit available. The upgrade can be done after you have driven the car a bit and evaluate your needs. Depending on the location and fequency even this may get to be a bore and you will put a small Leviton at the location.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:25 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:09 pm
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Location: Foothills of Granada Hills, CA
Delivery Date: 01 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000360
At home I agree. In two years and 30,000 miles, there has been less than a half dozen times when I could have really used a 6.6Kw charger at home. Those where the times when we used the car extensively during the day, were now home, and would have liked to get enough charge to use it again later in the day... For opportunity charging away from home, where there is no QC option, it is a different story and 6.6Kw would be of real advantage.

EVDRIVER wrote:
Another common EV misconception is that one needs faster charging at home but few ever use it but think it is a must.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:53 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:51 am
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EVSE upgrade wil be offering a high-power upgrade version for the 2013 LEAF, Phil mentioned it elsewhere. This would likely give about 4.8kw which wil charge the LEAF only slightly slower in practical charge time over a 32A unit since the LEAF will not be taking advantage of the full 32A. Once you see that actual charge differences you will understand why there is not such a big difference. You will be able to get a very fast L2 and even portable portable charge for under $300. For many folks this will also eliminate the need for a 40A circuit.

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