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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:28 pm 
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First, here's a link to the the "FYI Income 9 Alternative Fuel Income Tax Credits" for the State of Colorado (2011)-- http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite?bl ... inary=true

Second, I personally find the language of the document to be ambiguous. Here's how I'm reading the document above -- though I'm hoping someone who's better at translating legalese and better at math than I am might be can set me straight if I'm reading it wrong, which I could well be.

According to the document -->

"The credit is a percentage [85%] of: a) The difference between the cost of the vehicle and the cost of the same or most similar vehicle that uses a traditional fuel."

I would say a Nissan Versa is the most similar vehicle that uses a traditional fuel -- but who knows, maybe the State of Colorado will say the most similar vehicle is a Toyota Prius. How they make this "similarity" determination, I do not know.

In any case, an entry level Versa = about $11,000. That's a helluva lot less than the approximately $28,000 for a 2012 LEAF SV, post Federal Tax Credit., actually about $16,000 less (I'm rounding numbers here).

The way I'm reading this document, you're eligible for a tax credit of 85% of the difference.

$16,000 x .85 = $13,600

Now, even if the rules are such that the $7,500 federal tax credit gets lopped off the sticker price AND must ALSO be subracted from the total tax credit eligibility I've calculated above, you still have -->

$13,600 - $7,500 = $6,100

And, according to the language in the Colorado Dept. of Revenue document above, you can carry that tax credit across multiple tax years if your total tax liability isn't enough in year 1, 2, etc.:

"If the credit allowed exceeds the net tax liability for that year, any excess credit may be carried forward and claimed on future year returns for up to five years until the credit is fully utilized."

So, I'm basically wondering if I'm completely misreading the document above -- clarifications are welcome :-)


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:25 pm 
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In another thread (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=5714&p=135761&hilit=colorado#p135761), the below calculation was posted for the 2011 Leaf. It is less for those purchased next year:

$12,250.00(IPD) - $7,500(FTC) = 4,750

$4,750 x 0.85 = $4,038

Your tax credit is $4,038.00


I believe it carries forward, but I will have enough taxes paid to not test that proposition.

I think that the IPD they are starting with is a little conservative, but the Versa cannot be tricked-out to match the base Leaf.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:29 pm 
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Location: The Western Slope, Colorado
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The Division of Revenue is being opaque as to the similar traditional fuel vehicle used. When I asked about the credit for a 2012 Leaf, I got the 2010 Leaf numbers, even though there were no 2010 model year Leafs, so far as I know. When I asked again about the more expensive 2012, I was told that the 2011 would be similar to the previous (2010) numbers and that the numbers came from Nissan. Huh? I then contacted Nissan and was told they have nothing to do with it but that perhaps their published pricing for their vehicles was being used by the state.

I presume that come tax time there should be numbers in a revised pdf document for 2011 and 2012 models. If not, I will try to contact them again. If I don't get useful information I will derive my own and if they want to discuss it, fine.

One thing to be aware of is that the "Innovative Motor Vehicle Credit" drops to 75% of the difference beginning January 1, 2012, compared to the previous "Alternative Fuel Credit" of 85%.

Also, the credit is refundable. For 2011:
"Credits generated in 2010 or 2011 that exceed the tax due for that year are not carried forward but are refundable."
For 2012-2015:
"If an authorized credit exceeds the income tax due on the income of the taxpayer for the taxable year, the excess credit may not be carried forward and shall be refunded to the taxpayer."


Some things I am unclear on:

• Is there a form one can use to calculate the credit? The tax credit form just has slots for the final numbers, however they are derived, and I can find no instructions for the form.

• If one can't use the entire federal tax credit, should that be reflected in the calculations? I presume so, but was unable to get an answer from the DOR rep.

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Blue 2012 SV ordered 8-30-11 (Colvin Auto Ctr, McMinnville, OR), Delivered: 12-15-11
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:36 am 
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reeler wrote:
In another thread (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=5714&p=135761&hilit=colorado#p135761), the below calculation was posted for the 2011 Leaf. It is less for those purchased next year:

$12,250.00(IPD) - $7,500(FTC) = 4,750

$4,750 x 0.85 = $4,038

Your tax credit is $4,038.00


I believe it carries forward, but I will have enough taxes paid to not test that proposition.

I think that the IPD they are starting with is a little conservative, but the Versa cannot be tricked-out to match the base Leaf.


Thank you for the info -- sorry to be dense, but what does IPD stand for?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:42 am 
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dgpcolorado wrote:
Also, the credit is refundable. For 2011:
"Credits generated in 2010 or 2011 that exceed the tax due for that year are not carried forward but are refundable."
For 2012-2015:
"If an authorized credit exceeds the income tax due on the income of the taxpayer for the taxable year, the excess credit may not be carried forward and shall be refunded to the taxpayer."


What document are you pulling the above from? It seems to be in direct contradiction with the document (link in my original post) I pulled this from -->

"If the credit allowed exceeds the net tax liability for that year, any excess credit may be carried forward and claimed on future year returns for up to five years until the credit is fully utilized."

Quote:
Some things I am unclear on:

• Is there a form one can use to calculate the credit? The tax credit form just has slots for the final numbers, however they are derived, and I can find no instructions for the form.

• If one can't use the entire federal tax credit, should that be reflected in the calculations? I presume so, but was unable to get an answer from the DOR rep.



Excellent questions -- wonder if anyone, anywhere (including DOR), has, or knows the answers

Early adopters like us will work hard to figure it all out, but sadly the complexity/ambiguity of tax credits like this one in Colorado sure isn't going to help to encourage mainstream folks to buy an EV.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:49 am 
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solarchargeddriver wrote:
reeler wrote:
In another thread (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=5714&p=135761&hilit=colorado#p135761), the below calculation was posted for the 2011 Leaf. It is less for those purchased next year:

$12,250.00(IPD) - $7,500(FTC) = 4,750

$4,750 x 0.85 = $4,038

Your tax credit is $4,038.00


I believe it carries forward, but I will have enough taxes paid to not test that proposition.

I think that the IPD they are starting with is a little conservative, but the Versa cannot be tricked-out to match the base Leaf.


Thank you for the info -- sorry to be dense, but what does IPD stand for?


OK, looked at the other thread -- Incremental Price Difference (IPD). But it's still a mystery to me what car model DOR is using to determine IPD, and on what (arbitrary?) basis...


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:30 am 
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Location: The Western Slope, Colorado
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solarchargeddriver wrote:
dgpcolorado wrote:
Also, the credit is refundable. For 2011:
"Credits generated in 2010 or 2011 that exceed the tax due for that year are not carried forward but are refundable."
For 2012-2015:
"If an authorized credit exceeds the income tax due on the income of the taxpayer for the taxable year, the excess credit may not be carried forward and shall be refunded to the taxpayer."


What document are you pulling the above from? It seems to be in direct contradiction with the document (link in my original post) I pulled this from -->

"If the credit allowed exceeds the net tax liability for that year, any excess credit may be carried forward and claimed on future year returns for up to five years until the credit is fully utilized."
I think I got my information from the same document you used: FYI Income 9 Alternative Fuel Income Tax Credits

The first one is at the bottom of page 1:
"Credits generated in 2010 or 2011 that exceed the tax due for that year are not carried forward but are refundable."

The second one, for 2012-2015, is near the bottom of page 6:
"If an authorized credit exceeds the income tax due on the income of the taxpayer for the taxable year, the excess credit may not be carried forward and shall be refunded to the taxpayer."

This does contradict the wording you quoted higher up on page 1. Figures!

However, when one looks at the credit tax form FORM 104CR the credit seems to be refunded. (But that is the 2010 tax year form and it could be changed for 2011.)

I dread doing it, but it might be time to read the CRS that defines the vehicle tax credits.

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Blue 2012 SV ordered 8-30-11 (Colvin Auto Ctr, McMinnville, OR), Delivered: 12-15-11
Home charging: EVSE Upgrade(rev2), L6-20 outlet and meter installed


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:37 am 
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Location: Aliso Viejo, CA
Delivery Date: 31 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 202
I think I remember some CO folks getting really great deals on their Tesla Roadsters. By comparing them to the Lotus Elise they got $45K (ish) back from the state. :shock: I also think CO was going to change the formula after seeing this happen.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:19 am 
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Guys, I would definitely send an information clarification request to those within the state to get your answers -- I did that with our IL EPA who regulates this and while it took awhile, we needed a clarification on whether their credit would apply to both outright purchases and leases (it doesn't, leases are ineligible), we got our answer -- you can also check with however does your state taxes so it doesn't get rejected. Getting 45K back on a Tesla roadster is unbelievable, what a great deal if its true. Perhaps I should move to CO and buy a Fisker Karma -- wouldn't that be sweet!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:57 am 
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Hi all. I took a $22,000 tax credit on my RAV4 EV in 2007 which I've been carrying forward. For the 2011 Leaf, titled and registered in 2011, the credit is lowered from the new $6000 cap due to the federal credit. If you don't take the federal credit, you would get the full $6000.

Nate


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