My car just died and thinking about purchasing a used S or SV Leaf - Help me decide

My old Altima finally bit the dust and I'm suddenly in the market for a new car. I'm seriously considering a Nissan Leaf.

My daily commute is under 50 miles roundtrip (Georgia) so I think I am perfectly suited to the limited range of the Leaf. If I need to travel an extended distance I can easily borrow a car from a family member.

I am pretty much locked on a 2013 model S with quick charge package or the SV with quick charge - although I doubt I will use the quick charge - my plan is to buy a level 2 GE durastation and charge via a 240V supply. It would still be great to hear from some Georgia leaf owners (I'm in the Marietta area) about quick charging - are there any free options for people purchasing used 2013 Leafs?

It is my understanding that any 2013 model S with the quick charge package also includes onboard 6.6kw charging while all 2013 Sv models have onboard 6.6kw charger, but may not include quick charge capability. Can someone please confirm this information.

The major differences I have identified between the s and sv are the resistive heater (S) verse a battery saving heat pump (SV); steel wheels with covers(S) verse alloy (SV); navigation (sv) verse no nav in the S. Am I missing any other important differences? Since I'm on a very limited budget, I'm not sure if the extra cost (about $700 on average) justifies the SV upgrades - please advise.

Now for some more specific questions:

I've seen a few pictures of advertised Leafs that show a display stating that the SD card is missing....should I be concerned?

As far as battery health is concerned, I plan to only purchase a model with 12 bars. I have also just ordered a ELM327 dongle and will use Leaf Spy lite to gauge the true battery health. Hopefully, this process is very straight forward as I've never messed with these scanners.

I asked a service adviser at the dealership where I had my Altima serviced about issues with the 2013 Leafs. He suggested I should avoid early 2013 models and claimed that the only issue that was common is a defective AC hose. He also mentioned that Leafs chew up tires. If the AC is working well, is it safe to assume that the hose was not a defective unit - anyway to check?

Does anyone know of any other issues that have affected 2013 Leafs? Since the battery appears to be under warranty for quite a few years, my main worry about the Leaf past the 3yr standard bumper to bumper warranty is some type of control panel failure - although I have not read of any issues with Leaf control panels.

Check out carlypso.com. They say they only sell 12-bar Leafs. (Private communication with their sales as I'm looking to buy a used 2015 -- yes, they exist.)

Leafitornot said:

It is my understanding that any 2013 model S with the quick charge package also includes onboard 6.6kw charging while all 2013 Sv models have onboard 6.6kw charger, but may not include quick charge capability. Can someone please confirm this information.

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Yes. Quick Charge is optional on both the S and the SV, standard on SL. SV and SL come with the 6.6kW charger, S only has 3.8 unless you get the optional Quick Charge package. S (all models) and SV (without QC) come with all-halogen headlights, SV+QC and all SL have LED low beams but halogen high beams. SV and SL have an optional "Premium Package" which includes Bose stereo and Nissan's Around View camera system.

The major differences I have identified between the s and sv are the resistive heater (S) verse a battery saving heat pump (SV); steel wheels with covers(S) verse alloy (SV); navigation (sv) verse no nav in the S. Am I missing any other important differences? Since I'm on a very limited budget, I'm not sure if the extra cost (about $700 on average) justifies the SV upgrades - please advise.

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On the 2013 S, the following features of the SV were deleted:

• Heat pump
• Cruise control
• B mode
• Navigation
• Alloy wheels

I've seen a few pictures of advertised Leafs that show a display stating that the SD card is missing....should I be concerned?

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If you get an SV or SL, yes. Without the SD card, the nav screen won't work, and on models with a nav screen, other car functions are displayed, including timer functions and the HVAC settings. You can turn the A/C on/off and turn the temp and fan up and down, but other than A/C or heat or recirc being on or off, you don't know what setting it's at. S model does not have nav so you don't need to worry about an SD card.

As far as battery health is concerned, I plan to only purchase a model with 12 bars. I have also just ordered a ELM327 dongle and will use Leaf Spy lite to gauge the true battery health. Hopefully, this process is very straight forward as I've never messed with these scanners.

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It's very easy, though my experience is through iOS and LeafStat rather than Android.

I asked a service adviser at the dealership where I had my Altima serviced about issues with the 2013 Leafs. He suggested I should avoid early 2013 models and claimed that the only issue that was common is a defective AC hose. He also mentioned that Leafs chew up tires. If the AC is working well, is it safe to assume that the hose was not a defective unit - anyway to check?

Does anyone know of any other issues that have affected 2013 Leafs? Since the battery appears to be under warranty for quite a few years, my main worry about the Leaf past the 3yr standard bumper to bumper warranty is some type of control panel failure - although I have not read of any issues with Leaf control panels.

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MY 2013 is when production for US/Canadian cars switched from Japan to the US (and the UK for the EU market) so there were some teething problems, like the A/C hose. Probably the most infamous "defect" is someone here who bought a Leaf S, got it home, and discovered that instead of a black cloth rear seat cushion which it was supposed to have, the factory installed a black LEATHER rear seat cushion instead :lol:

BTW the drain hose for the A/C was not defective, but rather was often not connected properly at the factory, causing water to spill onto the driver's side footwell. The fix is easy: remove center console, attach hose to pipe leading to outside of car like it should have been. If it's a nice hot and humid day, crank the A/C full blast and check the driver's footwell area (and passenger's too, just in case) for any dampness.

I have not heard of any issues with control panel failures, though the 2013 models' panels are different from earlier cars (either because it is an S which uses a different HVAC interface, or on the SV/SL models there is an addition of a heat off switch).

The OEM Bridgestone Ecopias, called "Ecrapias", wear very quickly (often under 25k miles), and if you follow Nissan's tire pressure recommendations actually causes the outside shoulder to wear faster than the rest of the tire, as if the camber were off. Some folks were able to eke out a bit more life by OVERinflating the tires to 40 or even 44 PSI (the max pressure printed on the sidewall). Retail Ecopias that you get from your local tire store seem to be a lot better.

Does anyone know of any other issues that have affected 2013 Leafs? Since the battery appears to be under warranty for quite a few years, my main worry about the Leaf past the 3yr standard bumper to bumper warranty is some type of control panel failure - although I have not read of any issues with Leaf control panels.

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Ron did a great job with the other answers. There do seem to be more than typical resistive heater failures (and a few heatpump failures as well) with the 2013, and a lot of them came with defective 12 volt batteries, which highlights the general issue of Leafs not keeping that 12 volt battery well charged. Body panel fit isn't always as good as the Japanese-built version, so check that, especially around the charging port door and front fenders. I have a 2013, and the only real non-design defect mine has is a rear hatch that isn't properly adjusted (it clanks when closed), despite one dealer attempt to fix it. There are at least two recalls that affect the 2013, one for a passenger seat airbag sensor recalibration, and one for a charger issue - the exact nature escapes me at the moment, but I seem to recall it being a possible risk in hot weather. Make sure any car you buy has, or gets, both recall services.

Thanks Ron and Leftie for the superb information. I'm off to check out a few 2013 S models w/ quick charge this AM. I realize this is a difficult question to answer, but what would you guys consider to be a reasonable price gap between the S with Quick Charge and the SV with Quick Charge? Since cost is a major factor for me, I'm trying to justify any upgrades. Cruise control and alloy wheels are not dealbreakers to me and I normally use my phone for navigation. Is the heater difference significant enough to avoid the S model?

Incredible how prices are dropping on these used models and it appears that this trend will continue for at least the next two years.. well unless gas prices bounce back. I think there is still a major risk in purchasing a used Leaf as longevity is still unknown.

I cannot tell you what the price difference should be, but I know that my 2012 model which only has 26k miles is worth just under $10k

The heat pump advantage is significant if you have an extended commute. With a 50 mile commute you may be pushing it with a non-heat-pump model in winter unless you are able to charge at work (even at 120 volts would be sufficient if it's plugged in all day) and with a degraded battery even more so.

Go to a dealer and compare new prices. Some are close to used prices. There are sometimes $5K dealer incentive. $5K Nissan incentive. $7.5K federal incentive and they all add up.

Leafitornot said:

... I realize this is a difficult question to answer, but what would you guys consider to be a reasonable price gap between the S with Quick Charge and the SV with Quick Charge? Since cost is a major factor for me, I'm trying to justify any upgrades.

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Whether the price is reasonable is up to you. But I would suggest that a 50-mile commute in a temperate climate is near the sweet-spot to benefit from the heat-pump.

Do you have any possibilities to charge at work or nearby? Keep in mind that after another 2 years the battery may be degraded to the point where a 50 mile commute with heat or A/C use will become difficult. The 6.6kW charger will come in really handy in that situation. Also, no Cruise Control on a 50 mile commute would be a deal-breaker for me.

There is a "base" version of the 2013 SV with no premium package (and no backup camera at all), just the heat pump and cruise control. It would be very rare to see one with the QC option, but that should cost just about the same as an S. Resale value isn't as good because of the lack of a camera system or XM/Nav unit.

Nubo said:

Whether the price is reasonable is up to you. But I would suggest that a 50-mile commute in a temperate climate is near the sweet-spot to benefit from the heat-pump.

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I agree on the heat pump here. I had a 2011 without it and really notice the improved range with it in the 2015. We really like the SV. Some dealers remove the SD cards before purchase so they aren't stolen. It could be they actually have them.

If you need any help locally, try join the EV Club of the South Facebook group:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/evclubsouth/
Several of us have LeafSpy going and could help out if you hit a snag. I'm out in Gwinnett, though.

Update: I checked out a 2013 base model with quick charger and odometer under 15k. There is just under 1 year left on the 36 month warranty. The seller is asking under $10k. The battery display had 12 bars and an initial mileage reading of 84. I have not yet received my scanner, so I was unable to run Leaf Spy. Starting off the car seemed under-powered. However, it turned out I was driving in ECO mode and when I switched over to standard, it felt like a different experience - much more power. Overall, I thought the car drove pretty well.

Some other observations:
The the AC appeared to function well
There is a small but annoying lag between pressing the on button and finally powering up ready to drive.
The backup cam screen was pretty small - not a big deal to me as I don't even think I'll use the cam.
The rear hatchback door, trunk, and charging door all operating perfectly.

My total average daily commute is actually less than 50 miles roundtrip....closer to 40. However, if I will only get a max of 50 miles in winter with the heater running, I may need to reconsider. I have no ability to charge at work. Hopefully, some Georgians can comment on winter mileage for 2013 S and SV models. Note that I'm not the type of person who has the heater blasting, even in freezing weather.

If I get an SV model, I may opt for one without the quick charger to save $$. I doubt I would ever use a quick charger, but it may still be worthwhile to have this option in case of an emergency - what do you guys think? I would only purchase the S model with the quick charger as the 6.6kw onboard charger seems to be a must.

nogajim (another jim huh) - you may be right that the dealers take out the SD cards to prevent theft...I'll check into this.

The heatpump on the SV works best down to about 27F, which I think is about the low you normally see? It keeps adding heat down to the single digits, but from about 15F down it isn't a big help. If your Winters are often in the twenties or thirties but rarely in the single digits, you really want the heatpump.

Isn't lack of telematics another difference between S & SV ?

evnow said:

Isn't lack of telematics another difference between S & SV ?

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Yes. No Carwings with the S model, so no remote charging or climate control activation. Also, no Nissan keeping tabs on the car in realtime. ;-)

Unless Nissan has planned/is planning to do something about it, all Leafs will lose their CarWings service at the end of 2016 anyway when AT&T shuts off 2G service. So I would not let the lack of telematics on the S dissuade anybody from getting one as long as they can live with the other feature deletions.

Atlanta and surrounding burbs rarely hits temps in the single digits or teens. The heater factor is starting to sway me towards an SV or SL model. Going to check out a few tomorrow.

If my ELM327 dongle does not arrive today, do I have any other options to check if the system has been reset and is displaying inaccurate battery info? If any models that I view have the carwings program, will this provide any useful battery capacity info? If so, can someone explain the simplest way for me to access this info.

If my dongle (not sure I'm confortable saying this) arrives today, I'll need to quickly learn how to read the output from leaf spy lite. Where can I find accepted Leaf Spy Lite values that would indicate adequate remaining battery capacity? What chart or output should I assess - all I want is a simple fast way to confirm that the battery is good.

Leafitornot said:

Atlanta and surrounding burbs rarely hits temps in the single digits or teens. The heater factor is starting to sway me towards an SV or SL model. Going to check out a few tomorrow.

If my ELM327 dongle does not arrive today, do I have any other options to check if the system has been reset and is displaying inaccurate battery info? If any models that I view have the carwings program, will this provide any useful battery capacity info? If so, can someone explain the simplest way for me to access this info.

If my dongle (not sure I'm confortable saying this) arrives today, I'll need to quickly learn how to read the output from leaf spy lite. Where can I find accepted Leaf Spy Lite values that would indicate adequate remaining battery capacity? What chart or output should I assess - all I want is a simple fast way to confirm that the battery is good.

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The Leaf Spy is really the only reliable info besides capacity bars. The higher percentage, the better. If it is below 90, it will lose a bar soon. It is reading from the car's diagnostics, so it doesn't make errors. The 2013s have been holding up better around here. I don't know one that has lost a bar yet.

What do you guys think about purchasing an SV model without the quick charge port? I plan to charge only at home. I'm also still considering the S model (w/ QC and sub 15k mileage) I test drove which would be similarly priced at just under $10k. Since Atlanta is not really that cold in winter, I think I could get away with running the resistive heater at a low setting. I plan to make my final decision by Wednesday.

I used the QC more frequently to extend range with the 2011 because of the 3.3 kW charger. I still use QC once in a while with the 2015, but the 6 kW charger is fast enough that I often just plug in at my workshop garage to extend range in the evening (time of day with demand charges at home mean I only charge off peak at home). QC may add a little to resale value, but if you keep the car long enough that will not matter. Consider QC if there are stations in your area that you would use.

I strongly recommend an SV or SL for your climate so you get the heat pump. It was really nice to run the heat when I got the 2015 in February without concern about range impact. An SV is probably the best choice because the black leather interior and black dash of the SL absorb a lot of heat in the summer so the A/C draws a bit more when the sun is bright (compared to the 2011). There is little impact to range with A/C and heat from compressor, but resistance heat really reduces range. Remote activation of climate control is a nice feature on SV and SL as long as CarWings is active so I hope there is a fix in 2016.

If you really want the S that you are looking at, you can get by with resistance heat for commuting by preheating while plugged in then using the seat and steering wheel heaters while driving to minimize range impact. If you plan to use the car to run errands as a family, everyone will be more comfortable with the heat pump.

Gerry