Considering buying a Nissan Leaf

Hey everyone!

For the past 5 months, I have been eyeing on purchasing a used Nissan Leaf. I've done months worth of research but would love firsthand insight on people who own the car. I am currently a college student looking to replace my dying 2003 Toyota Corolla. My daily commute to school is a 40-42 miles round trip, 32 of those miles being on the freeway. I have my eyes set on a 2012 Nissan LEAF SL with 36k miles for 10k (going to check the battery bars when I look at it from the Dealer). From what I've heard, the 2011-2012 LEAFs have a bigger problem with battery degradation, but I was thinking of exhausting it until 8 bars and replacing it with the Lizard Battery under warranty. I also live in Houston, Texas, where I hear the battery depletion happens at a much faster rate.

So, the question I have at the moment is...

On 9-10 bars of battery capacity, would my 40-42 mile round trip to school still work?

Dav1dNguy3n said:

Hey everyone!

For the past 5 months, I have been eyeing on purchasing a used Nissan Leaf. I've done months worth of research but would love firsthand insight on people who own the car. I am currently a college student looking to replace my dying 2003 Toyota Corolla. My daily commute to school is a 40-42 miles round trip, 32 of those miles being on the freeway. I have my eyes set on a 2012 Nissan LEAF SL with 36k miles for 10k (going to check the battery bars when I look at it from the Dealer). From what I've heard, the 2011-2012 LEAFs have a bigger problem with battery degradation, but I was thinking of exhausting it until 8 bars and replacing it with the Lizard Battery under warranty. I also live in Houston, Texas, where I hear the battery depletion happens at a much faster rate.

So, the question I have at the moment is...

On 9-10 bars of battery capacity, would my 40-42 mile round trip to school still work?

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If heating the vehicle (which in TX, you won't worry about freezing temperatures that often) is not an issue, then 21 miles one way and back is probably about the limit then if you plan on purchasing one down a lot of capacity bars to get the battery warranty. You'll need to make sure that whatever you purchase will degrade quick enough to get the warranty battery or else it might be a bad gamble. $10k for a 2012 with 36k miles seems a little step as well. You'll want to price shop that for a better deal.

Ah, darn, I did not realize how bad freeway driving exerts so much power. Thanks for the input about the pricing. Do you think waiting until a better deal comes around, preferably one that is a model 2013+?

Dav,

I think of you shop around you can get a better deal. That's at least a thousand bucks too much, imo.

Dav1dNguy3n said:

Ah, darn, I did not realize how bad freeway driving exerts so much power. Thanks for the input about the pricing. Do you think waiting until a better deal comes around, preferably one that is a model 2013+?

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Yes, 13+ is better. You can look at the pictures in the online listings to see the dash and eliminate the two bar loss cars.
Is your college is EV friendly? You can check Plugshare app. Even wall charging would help if it is allowed.

EVforRobert said:

Dav1dNguy3n said:

Ah, darn, I did not realize how bad freeway driving exerts so much power. Thanks for the input about the pricing. Do you think waiting until a better deal comes around, preferably one that is a model 2013+?

Click to expand...

Yes, 13+ is better. You can look at the pictures in the online listings to see the dash and eliminate the two bar loss cars.
Is your college is EV friendly? You can check Plugshare app. Even wall charging would help if it is allowed.

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I attend the University of Houston, from what I've seen on PlugShare, the energy department is working on installing two Blink charging stations. Besides that, the garage I park in does not have any standard outlet. I appreciate the input from both of y'all! I've tried contacting the dealer numerous times about the battery capacity bars to no avail. I've also seen a few LEAFs on Carvana, but I'm not too sure how reliable of a dealer the site is. I've been dying to own a LEAF for months now, but I'll try to wait it out until a better deal comes along. Thank you!

If you haven't already seen it, check out Tony Williams various range charts:

http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=4295

For a 9 bar loss range chart:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/y7hfg9ne3ojg9wa/LEAFrangeChartVersion7G69.pdf?dl=0

You may want to look at this for price, that the post has a few good links.

http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=21692

Thank you, guys! This is all very useful information.

If you do look at 2013 leafs, check the build date on the driver's side door jamb, and don't buy one made before April of 2013. There is significant circumstantial evidence that packs installed before then are little or no better at resisting degradation than the 2011 - 2012 "Canary" packs.

LeftieBiker said:

If you do look at 2013 leafs, check the build date on the driver's side door jamb, and don't buy one made before April of 2013. There is significant circumstantial evidence that packs installed before then are little or no better at resisting degradation than the 2011 - 2012 "Canary" packs.

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Thank you! I actually did not hear anything about that when researching the LEAF. The Dealer I stated before posted an image of the battery capacity bars. As it turns out, the 2012 Nissan LEAF SL only has 9 of its 12 battery capacity bars left. I'm assuming it'd still be a better idea to go for the 2013+ models? I live in Texas where it gets hot pretty easily here, bringing down one more bar shouldn't be too hard. However, the fact that it's a 2012 and costs 10k is still kinda offsetting.

If the vehicle was manufactured in Oct. 2016, does this mean the warranty is expired or it just necessarily means it was built that day and the warranty begins the day it was purchased?

Dav1dNguy3n said:

As it turns out, the 2012 Nissan LEAF SL only has 9 of its 12 battery capacity bars left.

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In that case, you'd have an excellent shot at qualifying for a new battery under warranty. Many also believe that the Japan-made 2011-2012 LEAFs have better build quality than the 2013 models that had just started to be produced in Tennessee. Personally, I've been happy with the build quality and reliability of my 2011 LEAF (though I'm disappointed in its battery's longevity and Nissan's handling of cars that didn't make the warranty).

Dav1dNguy3n said:

If the vehicle was manufactured in Oct. 2016, does this mean the warranty is expired or it just necessarily means it was built that day and the warranty begins the day it was purchased?

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The "in service date" is when the first owner took delivery of the car, and that is when the warranty begins. Losing just one bar on a 2012 Leaf in Texas shouldn't be too hard, but there are no guarantees.

The early 2013 pack issue has only come to light in the last six months or so, beginning when I noticed that a list of auctioned cars posted here last year - one which listed both remaining bars and build dates - showed all of the two or more bar "losers", and most of the one bar losers, had been built before April of 2013. Since then, almost every 2013 Leaf mentioned on this site with fewer than 11 bars has also had an early build date. We don't know if they somehow reused at least parts of leftover 2012 packs in those 2013s, or if perhaps they followed the old "recipe" when building new ones in those months, but something sure seems worse about those packs...

Be a little wary of the 'upcoming' chargers at your school. My son's school has 3 L2 chargers, 2 in one close in lot and 1 in a remote lot. Almost every time I've visited, the 2 in the close lot were ICEd. Fortunately, the 1 in the remote lot was available.

If they are getting only 2 chargers, don't count on being able to use them.

I am from Houston and own a 2015 Leaf - now in Chicago - Mother is a UHCougar grad - similar to Chicago except the number of days over 95 in the Summer are many compared to Chicago's average 10 days.

Sounds like you will need 11 kw for your "Cougars" commute on the Highway if you are averaging 65-70. The balance of miles sounds like 3 kw - Total round commute 42 miles = 14 KW or 60-65% of a full pack at 22.5 KW usable of 24KW. If the battery pack gets down to 17 KW capacity then you will need to slow down your highway miles to 60-65. Since Houston has major traffic, am guessing that you might average 45 mph on hwy and this highway usage would drop from 11 KW down to 8.5 KW.

Gasoline savings at $2.50 per gallon and EPA combined 28 mpg with 8,184 miles for school plus another 2,000 weekend comes to $910 per year.

Compare this to the Houston "Awesome way below national average electric rates" per kWh of 8-10 cents!! This will bring your Home Charging cost to below 2.5 cents per mile before charger/install cost.
Comparative electricity cost are $230 - savings of $680 annually.
If you or your family had a EV (hypothetical since you bought the 2003 Toyota Corolla) - with gasoline averaging 3.75 per gallon over that time period. Gasoline cost = 19,110 - savings over life of car so far - Electricity of $3.208 - savings on fuel - $15,902.

Add 1,960 worth of oil changes
Add savings from 2 sets of tires avoided - 1,200
Add savings from timing belt, water pump - 1,000
Add savings from transmission oil changes = 840
Add saving from engine coollant flushes - 560
Add savings from 2 avoided brake service overhauls - 1,200
Add savings from exhaust repairs - Heated O2 sensors, mufflers, catalytic converter/shields, EGR valve - 1,500
Add savings from a transmission overhaul replacement = 2,500

Total savings for having EV over 14 years versus a very fuel efficient ICE = $24,702 - $1,764 annually - $147 monthly

Hm, the 9 battery capacity bars has me very conflicted. Here is the CARFAX for the vehicle
http://www.carfax.com/VehicleHistory/p/Report.cfx?make=NISSAN&vin=-6%7C-87%7C-15%7C74%7C8%7C109%7C-80%7C7%7C-38%7C-41%7C37%7C-91%7C-72%7C-111%7C89%7C84%7C-85%7C-65%7C-51%7C-91%7C46%7C90%7C-87%7C-52%7C&dealer_id=4395140&car_id=429869821&partner=ATD_U

From this, I assume the warranty began May 2012 as it stated that's when the first owner bought it.

Also, my 42 mile trip consists of about 8 miles of it being in the city. During my commute, I take the HOV lane to get to school.Going to school, there is a great deal of traffic. However, going back, its usually a little better. I normally don't go above 70 mph unless the freeway is traffic free. I also see a 2015 Nissan LEAF SL for 20k with 1k miles (certified preowned). But idk if that is worth the investment seeing as these cars lose so much of their value, especially with Nissan trying to double up on their range.

David - sounds like you are conflicted:

1. Do you have charging infastructure/capacity at your residence and if not could you get it at reasonable cost - less than 1,500?
2. Are you the only one who needs or drives the Toyota Corolla?
3. If the Toyota is not in top driving condition - great tires, replaced shocks struts and bushings, drives down the road straight as an arrow when you let go of the wheel, transmission has been properly serviced or replaced, Motor has been overhauled since its likely at/or approaching end of life, new brake rotors and calipers in the front and new rear components, The seats and dash are not cracked and stinking - you need a new safer ride especially since you are in the HOV (at least you have a passenger or two or a great blow up doll) - meaning more than just your life at stake!!?
4. Do you need a weekend road warrior car to get to Austin or Dallas, or wherever?
5. Do You have a descent credit score or loads of cash on hand?

If you answered YES, YES, NO, YES or NO, YES - GO FOR IT - 20K on a 2015 sounds like a song, and its already been driven of the show room floor depreciated!!

rexki said:

David - sounds like you are conflicted:

1. Do you have charging infastructure/capacity at your residence and if not could you get it at reasonable cost - less than 1,500?
2. Are you the only one who needs or drives the Toyota Corolla?
3. If the Toyota is not in top driving condition - great tires, replaced shocks struts and bushings, drives down the road straight as an arrow when you let go of the wheel, transmission has been properly serviced or replaced, Motor has been overhauled since its likely at/or approaching end of life, new brake rotors and calipers in the front and new rear components, The seats and dash are not cracked and stinking - you need a new safer ride especially since you are in the HOV (at least you have a passenger or two or a great blow up doll) - meaning more than just your life at stake!!?
4. Do you need a weekend road warrior car to get to Austin or Dallas, or wherever?
5. Do You have a descent credit score or loads of cash on hand?

If you answered YES, YES, NO, YES or NO, YES - GO FOR IT - 20K on a 2015 sounds like a song, and its already been driven of the show room floor depreciated!!

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1. I do not have a charging infrastructure, because my round trip to school is the farthest I'll ever need to travel, I was planning on just charging it mainly at home with the slow wall socket charger.

2. Yes, the Toyota Corolla is mine. I'm the only one who drives it.

3. As far as driving is concerned, the Corolla runs but has a few mechanical problems and a check engine light that several mechanics could not fix. Long story short, I have already invested a good deal of money into the car and was looking for a cheap used vehicle that would save money and be incredibly reliable. That's when I came across the LEAF and instantly wanted to drive one. My opinion now is that ICE cars are obsolete compared to EV cars. Ever since then, I wanted to own a LEAF, but if it doesn't work out, I'd probably settle for a hybrid like the Volt or Prius. However, those don't depreciate as much as the LEAF budget wise.

4. No, I don't think I'll be traveling out of the city anytime soon or in the near future.

5. My credit score is still a bit new (got my credit card in Jan), and for loads of cash on hand, college basically stripped me of that. haha...

I think this conversation has gotten WAY TOO COMPLICATED. This is a young man, probably under 20 with limited funds and going to school with no significant job yet. I am not going to encourage a young student to engage in EV fantasizing at this time in his life.

The Leaf is not a mainstream vehicle yet that a teenager should be considering. It is still a big ticket item, and possibly an expensive animal to feed ($5K battery replacement).

Dude, do what all teenagers do.. buy a $2000 car and get by until you have an income to buy a really good car.

Leave the Leaf and other EV cars to us old guys who have the money to experiment on this new technology.