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jlv
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:46 am

We just got back from a 900 mi round trip (MA=>VA and back) where over 650 miles were all done on autopilot. While AP2 isn't perfect, and I personally think FSD is a long way away, it certainly makes highway driving less tedious. Why only 650? My wife is more of a control freak and at times needs to be reminded to turn on the AP. 99% of my time at the wheel was on AP.

AP2 has come a long way in the last 6 months. Back on the earlier versions (up until May or so, when they lifted the max speed from 60 to 85MPH) we would occasionally see the sudden slow down at an overpass as was quoted above. That hasn't happened since then at all.
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edatoakrun
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:37 pm

C&D not impressed with AP's progress:

Where Are Autonomous Cars Right Now? Four Systems Tested

We go hands-off in four vehicles you can buy today to understand the current state of automated technology and why progress won't come easily.


...A year after its debut, Tesla’s Enhanced Autopilot still offers no perceivable enhancement over the first-generation Autopilot. Compared with the original, the second-generation hardware suite employs four times as many cameras, ultrasonic sensors with double the range, and 40 times the computing power, yet Enhanced Autopilot shipped in October 2016 without fundamental abilities such as self-steering and adaptive cruise control because Tesla was still developing the software. All the sensors in the world can’t guide a car if the computer can’t make sense of the world, and Tesla took a temporary backward step when it brought Autopilot development in-house after an ugly public breakup with Mobileye, the supplier behind the original Autopilot.

By this past August, when we shepherded a $146,200 Model S P100D around Southern California, Enhanced Autopilot operated at the same level as the first-gen system, both according to Tesla and our own observations. The self-steering algorithm is no more certain or reliable than the earlier version we lived with in our long-term 2015 Tesla Model S. The technology that oozed possibility two years ago now simply feels incomplete, especially since Enhanced Autopilot makes the same unsettling mistakes as its predecessor did—mistakes that suggest a Tesla can’t always make sense of its environment.

Autopilot can cover hundreds of miles flawlessly or it can make a dozen errors in as many miles. In either case, we’re always caught off guard when the system makes an abrupt steering input that attempts to yank the Model S out of its lane without warning...

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/w ... ed-feature

For example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxAoS4V ... e=youtu.be
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sparky
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:51 pm

I guess it's reasonable to find the current AP2 un-impessive compared to C&D's previous test using AP1.
I take it as a compliment to Tesla that C&D feels it's as good as AP1. That was Tesla's big challenge when they split with MobileEye (now Intel).
That Tesla's AP tech is judged to have equal performance with tech from a company valued at $15B is rather impressive still.

I've driven both AP1 and AP2 and have many hours with AP2. Yeah, it needs better lane keeping and awareness. I think that's a fair criticism.
I watch it like a hawk.
The other EAP feature, TACC works great IMO. Better than the BMW TACC system I've driven. I'm never hesitant to employ TACC on even short trips and it has accurately warned me of impending collisions (simultaneous with my own "uh oh!").

I will order EAP with my Model 3. It's that good.

lorenfb
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:16 pm

sparky wrote:I guess it's reasonable to find the current AP2 un-impessive compared to C&D's previous test using AP1.


Right, AP2 software is still based on the original AP1 developed with MobilEye and now with software enhancements
provided by the transition to the Nvidia processor. Most likely Tesla just used the MobilEye AP1 source code
and re-compiled it with minor updates to run on the Nvidia processor. Lack of processor capabilities, e.g. MIPS,
was one the limitations for AP2 and as such, staying with MobilEye.

sparky wrote:That was Tesla's big challenge when they split with MobileEye (now Intel).
That Tesla's AP tech is judged to have equal performance with tech from a company valued at $15B is rather impressive still.


So what, they've been now relying on Nvidia, i.e. almost a year now, that gave AP2 the updated processor
capabilities for the additionally needed AI processing since MobileEye left. That's hardly a "big challenge"
nor a singular Tesla achievement!

edatoakrun
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:04 am

Autopilot software problems aside, I've been wondering why TSLA's hardware inadequacies have not been brought up.

Until now:

‘Full of crap’ -- Tesla’s Elon Musk just got seriously dissed by a GM exec

Published: Oct 6, 2017 2:16 p.m. ET

...Miller — who helps direct GM’s efforts in autonomous driving — isn’t buying a key Tesla claim...

Musk & Co. have said all Tesla vehicles produced since October 2016, including the $35,000 Model 3 sedan, contain “the hardware needed for full self-driving capability,” though such features aren’t currently enabled. That implies the vehicles are what the industry calls “Level 5” autonomous cars.

“I think he’s full of crap,” said Miller, according to multiple reports. “To be what an SAE Level 5 full autonomous system is, I don’t think he has the content to do that.”...

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/full-o ... 2017-10-06

On topic thread:

Elon Musk is 'full of crap'

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... rap.99534/
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jhm614
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:28 am

edatoakrun wrote:Autopilot can cover hundreds of miles flawlessly or it can make a dozen errors in as many miles. In either case, we’re always caught off guard when the system makes an abrupt steering input that attempts to yank the Model S out of its lane without warning...
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/w ... ed-feature

Thanks for posting this article. It is very interesting to see four L1 / L2 systems compared. I wish ProPilot had been included.
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GRA
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:44 pm

jhm614 wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:Autopilot can cover hundreds of miles flawlessly or it can make a dozen errors in as many miles. In either case, we’re always caught off guard when the system makes an abrupt steering input that attempts to yank the Model S out of its lane without warning...
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/w ... ed-feature

Thanks for posting this article. It is very interesting to see four L1 / L2 systems compared. I wish ProPilot had been included.

Yes, an excellent article, and another confirmation for me that I'll wait for Level 4 before trusting my life to such a system. As long as I've got to keep an eye out for occasional surprises that the system doesn't know how to deal with, I need to remain fully engaged with the driving in order to have the necessary reaction time.

As it is, all of the systems allow too much time to pass without driver engagement before bringing the car to a stop - Joshua Brown had the semi in sight for only about 10.4 seconds after cresting the hill, which was plenty of time to avoid it or stop if he'd been paying attention, but none of these systems would have required him to start paying attention until well after impact, even assuming they could detect the semi crossing the road. In the interim, AEB provides an extra layer of safety to a fully engaged driver.
Last edited by GRA on Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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jlv
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:19 am

lorenfb wrote:
sparky wrote:I guess it's reasonable to find the current AP2 un-impessive compared to C&D's previous test using AP1.


Right, AP2 software is still based on the original AP1 developed with MobilEye and now with software enhancements
provided by the transition to the Nvidia processor. Most likely Tesla just used the MobilEye AP1 source code
and re-compiled it with minor updates to run on the Nvidia processor.

As I understood it, AP2 did not start with Mobileye software, so I don't think any of that is true.
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lorenfb
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:36 pm

jlv wrote:
lorenfb wrote:
sparky wrote:I guess it's reasonable to find the current AP2 un-impessive compared to C&D's previous test using AP1.


Right, AP2 software is still based on the original AP1 developed with MobilEye and now with software enhancements
provided by the transition to the Nvidia processor. Most likely Tesla just used the MobilEye AP1 source code
and re-compiled it with minor updates to run on the Nvidia processor.

As I understood it, AP2 did not start with Mobileye software, so I don't think any of that is true.


So you think that Tesla scrapped the total AP1 development effort and all the software logic/code and
started from scratch when they switched to the Nvidia processor? Do you realize the lost time and
AP1 engineering costs would basically have had to be written-off? It's not as if AP1 was a simple Windows
API or DLL. Yes, major mods were required for the transition to AP2, but not a total ground-up totally
new development.

Hey, maybe I'm wrong (Elon is known for different management approaches). Please provide your source.

GRA
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:32 pm

I'm not up on the details (and probably couldn't understand them anyway), but here's one article I found googling Tesla Mobileye software, which AIUI indicates that Tesla is going its own way:

https://electrek.co/2017/03/13/tesla-vi ... -mobileye/

Here's another article: https://cleantechnica.com/2017/05/06/tesla-ceo-elon-musk-took-6-months-recreate-mobileye-chip-tech-elontalks/

Of course, what Elon says and what actually happened may or may not be the same thing. How much they could carry over remains to be seen.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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