AndyH
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Re: Official Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV thread

Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:44 pm

GRA wrote:Are you stuck with metric for the data screens, or do you have a choice? I can convert easily enough, but I'd think the average american buyer would want Imperial units.

It's a Euro app in beta and isn't anything from Mitsubishi. I can select Imperial units, but that also means British gallons. I've requested US gallons and miles as an option - hopefully that'll be available in the next version.

edit...had to buy a vowel.
Last edited by AndyH on Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The stupid become extinct."-Bill Mollison
2018 Outlander PHEV
2015 smart Electric Drive (lease ended Feb, 2018)
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GRA
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Re: Official Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV thread

Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:52 pm

AndyH wrote:
DanCar wrote:How disappointing did it feel not to be able to drive all electric?

It wasn't, actually.

For the past three years, my sole vehicle has been my smart. Even though the ride to the farm is technically within the 68 mile EPA range for the smart, and well within my normal 80-85 mile range when I drive carefully, I can only drive there and back in spring and fall. Using heat or AC means I either need to keep the speed under 55 (which isn't popular on 70 MPH roads), as well as pre-heating/pre-cooling from shore power and making sure the battery's at 100% SOC. Yes, it's possible, and yes, it can be done, but since there's no charging available enroute, it's a pain. What it means 'in real life' is that I don't make cheese or yogurt in the winter or summer. The drive today was effortless - I got in, drove out, and drove home.

And that encapsulates why I believe PHEVs are the only current AFV tech that will be acceptable to the general public for now - knowing you can get there and back regardless of where 'there' is, without having to worry about it or plan your route around charging opportunities and allowing significant amounts of extra time for same - you've got a ubiquitous, fast fueling infrastructure that allows complete freedom of action.

AndyH wrote:
GRA wrote:
Are you stuck with metric for the data screens, or do you have a choice? I can convert easily enough, but I'd think the average american buyer would want Imperial units.

It's a Euro app in beta and isn't anything from Mitsubishi. I can select Imperial units, but that also mans British gallons. I've requested US gallons and miles as an option - hopefully that'll be available in the next version.

Thanks.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

AndyH
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Location: San Antonio

Re: Official Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV thread

Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:18 pm

GRA wrote:
AndyH wrote:
DanCar wrote:How disappointing did it feel not to be able to drive all electric?

It wasn't, actually.

For the past three years, my sole vehicle has been my smart. Even though the ride to the farm is technically within the 68 mile EPA range for the smart, and well within my normal 80-85 mile range when I drive carefully, I can only drive there and back in spring and fall. Using heat or AC means I either need to keep the speed under 55 (which isn't popular on 70 MPH roads), as well as pre-heating/pre-cooling from shore power and making sure the battery's at 100% SOC. Yes, it's possible, and yes, it can be done, but since there's no charging available enroute, it's a pain. What it means 'in real life' is that I don't make cheese or yogurt in the winter or summer. The drive today was effortless - I got in, drove out, and drove home.

And that encapsulates why I believe PHEVs are the only current AFV tech that will be acceptable to the general public for now - knowing you can get there and back regardless of where 'there' is, without having to worry about it or plan your route around charging opportunities and allowing significant amounts of extra time for same - you've got a ubiquitous, fast fueling infrastructure that allows complete freedom of action.

I have to agree overall. More charge infrastructure will help. More fast charge capability will help. Eventually we can get to 100% electric. In the middle of the country, though, it's a really hard sell when the vehicle's a fit - and there are a lot of needs that no EV currently satisfies.

GRA wrote:
AndyH wrote:
GRA wrote:
Are you stuck with metric for the data screens, or do you have a choice? I can convert easily enough, but I'd think the average american buyer would want Imperial units.

It's a Euro app in beta and isn't anything from Mitsubishi. I can select Imperial units, but that also mans British gallons. I've requested US gallons and miles as an option - hopefully that'll be available in the next version.

Thanks.

You're welcome.
"The stupid become extinct."-Bill Mollison
2018 Outlander PHEV
2015 smart Electric Drive (lease ended Feb, 2018)
OpenEVSE Plus DIY

AndyH
Posts: 6384
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:43 pm
Location: San Antonio

Re: Official Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV thread

Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:45 am

GRA wrote:What I'm mainly concerned with on a PHEV (one that has a real hold mode) is Hwy mpg running solely on gas. To me, anyone who cares about maximizing their efficiency and minimizing local pollution will save the battery for urban stop and go, where it provides the greatest benefit, making City MPG irrelevant. What I've not yet been able to find is a breakdown of the Outlander's City and Hwy MPG, but the combined rating indicates that Hwy rating won't be anything special, probably under 30.

In Europe, the reason for running in EV mode in cities is so one doesn't have to pay to pollute. Efficiency's not the primary factor.

I think this is useful info for your concern for highway economy.

http://www.myoutlanderphev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=13993#p13993
Image

As luck, ignorance, and mission needs would have it, I managed to spend most of my drive outside the zone where the ICE was most efficient. That's how I 'earned' the worst-case EPA economy for the trip.

http://www.myoutlanderphev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3444

In addition to driving speed, it also appears that it's more efficient to cruise with less then 1/2 charge on the battery. That and about 63 MPH will return about 32.7 MPG. Economy will drop a bit as the battery's charged (31.7 MPG) but that number will increase when one uses the electricity they've generated to drive around town.

That's not too shabby for a comfortable AWD 4000lb wagon.

[For a point of reference...in order to make it to my in-law's place in my smart (with her city car aerodynamics ;) ) I had no problem on the interstate, but had to keep my speed down to 55. Driving faster meant that I didn't have enough charge to make it to a charge location. As it was, I'd often drag in to Fredericksburg with 1-2% remaining and a max speed of 30. Being able to drive 63 on the highway is a nice upgrade. :lol: ]
"The stupid become extinct."-Bill Mollison
2018 Outlander PHEV
2015 smart Electric Drive (lease ended Feb, 2018)
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GRA
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Re: Official Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV thread

Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:32 pm

AndyH wrote:
GRA wrote:What I'm mainly concerned with on a PHEV (one that has a real hold mode) is Hwy mpg running solely on gas. To me, anyone who cares about maximizing their efficiency and minimizing local pollution will save the battery for urban stop and go, where it provides the greatest benefit, making City MPG irrelevant. What I've not yet been able to find is a breakdown of the Outlander's City and Hwy MPG, but the combined rating indicates that Hwy rating won't be anything special, probably under 30.

In Europe, the reason for running in EV mode in cities is so one doesn't have to pay to pollute. Efficiency's not the primary factor.

Yes, and we're starting to see congestion-pricing zones being considered here, and may well see ZEV-only zones at some future date, at leastIi hope so.

AndyH wrote:I think this is useful info for your concern for highway economy. <snip>

As luck, ignorance, and mission needs would have it, I managed to spend most of my drive outside the zone where the ICE was most efficient. That's how I 'earned' the worst-case EPA economy for the trip.

http://www.myoutlanderphev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3444

In addition to driving speed, it also appears that it's more efficient to cruise with less then 1/2 charge on the battery. That and about 63 MPH will return about 32.7 MPG. Economy will drop a bit as the battery's charged (31.7 MPG) but that number will increase when one uses the electricity they've generated to drive around town.

That's not too shabby for a comfortable AWD 4000lb wagon.

[For a point of reference...in order to make it to my in-law's place in my smart (with her city car aerodynamics ;) ) I had no problem on the interstate, but had to keep my speed down to 55. Driving faster meant that I didn't have enough charge to make it to a charge location. As it was, I'd often drag in to Fredericksburg with 1-2% remaining and a max speed of 30. Being able to drive 63 on the highway is a nice upgrade. :lol: ]

Thanks for the above. I remain unimpressed by the Outlander's HWY mpg, given the other choices available. I get 29-31 on the road in my 15 year old Forester at 65-70 (dry, flat, moderate temps, no wind, no accessories other than fan), and it's a brick! Admittedly, it's also somewhat smaller and much lighter (3,095 lb. curb weight) than the Outlander.

Have you had a chance to try Hold mode stop and go/urban, HEV highway? Personally, I can't see much point in Charge mode, except if you're about to enter an urban area where ICE use is banned and you don't have enough battery left, as it would seem to be the least efficient method of charging. For me, I'd do that as much to reduce local air pollution as for efficiency.

On a positive note, is a possible that people have been desperately waiting so long for any AWD PHCUV that the Outlander's going to be a hit here, despite its rather pedestrian specs?Personally, if I had to buy a new AWD CUV now, it's the only PHEV game in town and I could live with it, but I'd rather wait for something better. Via IEVS:
Mitsubishi Dealerships In U.S. Asking For More Outlander PHEV SUVs
https://insideevs.com/mitsubishi-dealerships-u-s-request-outlander-phev-suvs/

[ Don Swearingen, COO of Mitsubishi Motors North America]
    “Swearingen said he’s hearing of customer fervor around the Outlander PHEV that he hasn’t heard in years for a Mitsubishi product. Some stores, he said, are selling the vehicles before they arrive on lots.

    In a call with dealers, Swearingen said many had a common question: How do I get more Outlander PHEVs?

    Swearingen said the vehicle could be a halo for the brand.”

Needless to say, Mitsubishi hasn’t garnered much success in the U.S. as of late. However, last year a gradual change began. The automaker sold 103,686 vehicles, after not surpassing 100,000 since 2007. Plans for the future start with a goal of 130,000 sales per year inside of the next three years.

If the Outlander PHEV can bring newfound, positive attention to the brand, perhaps it will be able to sell other vehicles well, along with expanding its lineup. . . .

If so, good news for Mitsubishi, and I will have been proved wrong.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

AndyH
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Location: San Antonio

Re: Official Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV thread

Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:05 pm

GRA wrote:I remain unimpressed by the Outlander's HWY mpg, given the other choices available. I get 29-31 on the road in my 15 year old Forester at 65-70 (dry, flat, moderate temps, no wind, no accessories other than fan), and it's a brick! Admittedly, it's also somewhat smaller and much lighter (3,095 lb. curb weight) than the Outlander.

Have you had a chance to try Hold mode stop and go/urban, HEV highway? Personally, I can't see much point in Charge mode, except if you're about to enter an urban area where ICE use is banned and you don't have enough battery left, as it would seem to be the least efficient method of charging. For me, I'd do that as much to reduce local air pollution as for efficiency.

The other choices available? There is nothing comparable in the US market.

Yes, there are vehicles that will get better highway mileage - like my old VW Passat for example. Of course, the diesel polluted more, had a higher embodied energy, wasn't AWD, wasn't comfortable for 5. And couldn't get 75 MPGe in electric mode. Prius Prime, Volt, Outlander PHEV, and one of the Hyundai Ioniq (any others?) are it so far.

Hold and charge mode work the same in urban driving as on the highway. I used all of the modes on the way home. As detailed in the graphic above, the car is designed with EV priority. It's also designed to run the ICE in it's most efficient zone if at all possible. That means it will automatically add a demand from the charger if there's not enough demand from hills or aerydynamics.

I noted in my original report from the drive that the fuel economy didn't change when the car was in either hold or charge mode, and that included highway and city driving. The car's pretty well done, actually.
"The stupid become extinct."-Bill Mollison
2018 Outlander PHEV
2015 smart Electric Drive (lease ended Feb, 2018)
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Lon12
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Re: Official Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV thread

Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:36 pm

Has anyone tried charging another EV with the 1500 W outlet in the GT PHEV?
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2014 S85
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GRA
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Re: Official Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV thread

Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:53 pm

AndyH wrote:
GRA wrote:I remain unimpressed by the Outlander's HWY mpg, given the other choices available. I get 29-31 on the road in my 15 year old Forester at 65-70 (dry, flat, moderate temps, no wind, no accessories other than fan), and it's a brick! Admittedly, it's also somewhat smaller and much lighter (3,095 lb. curb weight) than the Outlander.

Have you had a chance to try Hold mode stop and go/urban, HEV highway? Personally, I can't see much point in Charge mode, except if you're about to enter an urban area where ICE use is banned and you don't have enough battery left, as it would seem to be the least efficient method of charging. For me, I'd do that as much to reduce local air pollution as for efficiency.

The other choices available? There is nothing comparable in the US market.

Yes, there are vehicles that will get better highway mileage - like my old VW Passat for example. Of course, the diesel polluted more, had a higher embodied energy, wasn't AWD, wasn't comfortable for 5. And couldn't get 75 MPGe in electric mode. Prius Prime, Volt, Outlander PHEV, and one of the Hyundai Ioniq (any others?) are it so far.

As I noted upthread there are no other smallish, relatively affordable AWD PHCUVs currently available, but there are other current small, affordable AWD CUVs, both ICE and HEV, that get better Hwy and/or Combined mpg.

AndyH wrote:Hold and charge mode work the same in urban driving as on the highway. I used all of the modes on the way home. As detailed in the graphic above, the car is designed with EV priority. It's also designed to run the ICE in it's most efficient zone if at all possible. That means it will automatically add a demand from the charger if there's not enough demand from hills or aerydynamics.

I noted in my original report from the drive that the fuel economy didn't change when the car was in either hold or charge mode, and that included highway and city driving. The car's pretty well done, actually.

Thanks for the clarification. I look forward to further reports to see how the mpg improves once the car's broken in and the temp warms up a bit, as well as what you like and dislike six months to a year down the road.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 8869
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
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Re: Official Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV thread

Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:42 pm

Via GCC:
Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV clears 100,000 sales milestone in Europe
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/01/20170129-outlander.html

. . . Despite an ever-growing number of competitors, Outlander PHEV has stayed ahead of the pack. In 2017, Outlander PHEV retained the number one position in the UK, Norway, and Spain. . . .


For a review that expresses my own reservations* about the Outlander PHEV in the U.S. market, see
Flash Drive: 2018 Mitsubishi Outlander Plug-In Hybrid plugs in budget-conscious greenies
http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/latest-reviews/flash-drive-2018-mitsubishi-outlander-plug-in-hybrid-review-article-1.3785887

*I personally don't care about the lack of touchscreens, in-built nav etc. and prefer physical controls, but agree with the other concerns.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

Lon12
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Re: Official Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV thread

Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:28 pm

Zach Spencer just did a nice review:
https://youtu.be/ibVWKiwIOIM
2011 SV
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