GRA
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:13 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:
GRA wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:Everyone knows why S sales are down but don't mention that. The EQC , seriously? LOL.

The first look/drive reviews I've seen of the EQC are quite good, and judging by them alone (and still waiting on EPA numbers and full tests), If I had to choose between it, the e-Tron and the Model X I'd go for the EQC, as it meets more of my requirements/wants, or at least comes closer than the others. None of them is seriously on my radar owing to their size and price, and Model Y, whenever it happens to arrive, is likewise too big and expensive.

Would you like to bet that it has no impact on Tesla sales worth mentioning? S sales are reduced because...........?

Guess we'll see. Do you think the e-Tron won't have an effect? The 856 they sold in May would have otherwise been Model Xs if people wanted a premium BEV CUV (I'm assuming that the i-Pace has a largely different market, although there could be some overlap). As for the Model S, there's a variety of possible reasons; lack of demand for what's basically a 7 y.o.design, waiting for a possible major update, the shift to CUVs from cars, price instability has people waiting for an even better deal, or what have you. It doesn't seem that production is an issue given the short to non-existent wait times, or has that changed?
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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EVDRIVER
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:37 pm

lorenfb wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:
lorenfb wrote:
It's always the next model, as Tesla's savior, right?


You should post on TMC, see how that goes. I think there is a LEAF thread with 3 posts VS the majority of MNL traffic here in the Tesla threads.


You can find me over there, in 2014 shortly after delivery of my 2013 Leaf. As expected, same Tesla arrogance over there toward the Leaf.
Back then, they were claiming that the MS had a higher efficiency than the Leaf, i.e. MS with about 25-30% more weight and using an
induction motor.



2014 is not now.

Oils4AsphaultOnly
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Leaf Number: 313890
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:27 pm

GRA wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:
GRA wrote:The first look/drive reviews I've seen of the EQC are quite good, and judging by them alone (and still waiting on EPA numbers and full tests), If I had to choose between it, the e-Tron and the Model X I'd go for the EQC, as it meets more of my requirements/wants, or at least comes closer than the others. None of them is seriously on my radar owing to their size and price, and Model Y, whenever it happens to arrive, is likewise too big and expensive.

Would you like to bet that it has no impact on Tesla sales worth mentioning? S sales are reduced because...........?

Guess we'll see. Do you think the e-Tron won't have an effect? The 856 they sold in May would have otherwise been Model Xs if people wanted a premium BEV CUV (I'm assuming that the i-Pace has a largely different market, although there could be some overlap). As for the Model S, there's a variety of possible reasons; lack of demand for what's basically a 7 y.o.design, waiting for a possible major update, the shift to CUVs from cars, price instability has people waiting for an even better deal, or what have you. It doesn't seem that production is an issue given the short to non-existent wait times, or has that changed?


The people who wanted an EV, and are brand agnostic, would see that the model X is better in almost all the metrics. The ones who cared about brand were never Tesla buyers to lose and would be buying the e-tron and i-pace. The e-tron and i-Pace expands the EV market, stealing sales away from their existing ICE offerings. Thinking that they're Tesla competitors is a short thesis that has been proven wrong over and over again with the leaf, bolt, ioniq, niro, kona, i-pace, and soon e-tron, taycan, and eqc.
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
100% Zero transportation emissions (except when I walk) and loving it!

Valdemar
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:09 am

There is so many T3s on the road in SoCal that I lost all interest in this car.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB), -1CB(53.92Ahr)@140k/29mo,
51.1AHr, SOH 80%, 150k miles

9kW Solar

Oils4AsphaultOnly
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:24 am

Valdemar wrote:There is so many T3s on the road in SoCal that I lost all interest in this car.


It doesn't have to be everyone's cup-o-tea. As long as you're in an EV, you're contributing to the mission.
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
100% Zero transportation emissions (except when I walk) and loving it!

Valdemar
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:30 am

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
Valdemar wrote:There is so many T3s on the road in SoCal that I lost all interest in this car.


It doesn't have to be everyone's cup-o-tea. As long as you're in an EV, you're contributing to the mission.


I am for now, but I'm somewhat disillusioned.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB), -1CB(53.92Ahr)@140k/29mo,
51.1AHr, SOH 80%, 150k miles

9kW Solar

GRA
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:57 pm

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
GRA wrote:Guess we'll see. Do you think the e-Tron won't have an effect? The 856 they sold in May would have otherwise been Model Xs if people wanted a premium BEV CUV (I'm assuming that the i-Pace has a largely different market, although there could be some overlap). As for the Model S, there's a variety of possible reasons; lack of demand for what's basically a 7 y.o.design, waiting for a possible major update, the shift to CUVs from cars, price instability has people waiting for an even better deal, or what have you. It doesn't seem that production is an issue given the short to non-existent wait times, or has that changed?

The people who wanted an EV, and are brand agnostic, would see that the model X is better in almost all the metrics. The ones who cared about brand were never Tesla buyers to lose and would be buying the e-tron and i-pace. The e-tron and i-Pace expands the EV market, stealing sales away from their existing ICE offerings. Thinking that they're Tesla competitors is a short thesis that has been proven wrong over and over again with the leaf, bolt, ioniq, niro, kona, i-pace, and soon e-tron, taycan, and eqc.

I imagine there are more than a few brand-agnostic CUV people like me who reject the Model X for the FWD, which make it impossible to carry anything on the roof (esp. kayaks or canoes), never mind the extra cost, weight, unreliability and slowness of operation. Others want a more squared-off rear top round-down to maximize cargo height as far aft as possible and are willing to sacrifice Cd, and so on. The Model X wins for range, charging speed (probably) and network (for the moment). The others all have their good and bad points too, and it's entirely possible to be brand-agnostic and choose one of them over the Model X - it's the mix of features that would lead me to the EQC at the moment, not that it's the best in all categories. Do any of them meet all my major (never mind minor) requirements? No.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

Oils4AsphaultOnly
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:08 pm

GRA wrote:
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
GRA wrote:Guess we'll see. Do you think the e-Tron won't have an effect? The 856 they sold in May would have otherwise been Model Xs if people wanted a premium BEV CUV (I'm assuming that the i-Pace has a largely different market, although there could be some overlap). As for the Model S, there's a variety of possible reasons; lack of demand for what's basically a 7 y.o.design, waiting for a possible major update, the shift to CUVs from cars, price instability has people waiting for an even better deal, or what have you. It doesn't seem that production is an issue given the short to non-existent wait times, or has that changed?

The people who wanted an EV, and are brand agnostic, would see that the model X is better in almost all the metrics. The ones who cared about brand were never Tesla buyers to lose and would be buying the e-tron and i-pace. The e-tron and i-Pace expands the EV market, stealing sales away from their existing ICE offerings. Thinking that they're Tesla competitors is a short thesis that has been proven wrong over and over again with the leaf, bolt, ioniq, niro, kona, i-pace, and soon e-tron, taycan, and eqc.

I imagine there are more than a few brand-agnostic CUV people like me who reject the Model X for the FWD, which make it impossible to carry anything on the roof (esp. kayaks or canoes), never mind the extra cost, weight, unreliability and slowness of operation. Others want a more squared-off rear top round-down to maximize cargo height as far aft as possible and are willing to sacrifice Cd, and so on. The Model X wins for range, charging speed (probably) and network (for the moment). The others all have their good and bad points too, and it's entirely possible to be brand-agnostic and choose one of them over the Model X - it's the mix of features that would lead me to the EQC at the moment, not that it's the best in all categories. Do any of them meet all my major (never mind minor) requirements? No.


Okay, so expand the criteria list, but it still doesn't change the fact that you all were NOT Tesla sales to lose. You wouldn't have ever considered the model X, because it didn't meet your criteria. So if you needed a new car, you would've chosen an ICE car instead. However, with the e-tron and i-Pace now available, you might consider that over the ICE car. See how the EV market expanded?
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
100% Zero transportation emissions (except when I walk) and loving it!

GRA
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:10 pm

Valdemar wrote:
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
Valdemar wrote:There is so many T3s on the road in SoCal that I lost all interest in this car.


It doesn't have to be everyone's cup-o-tea. As long as you're in an EV, you're contributing to the mission.

I am for now, but I'm somewhat disillusioned.

Disillusioned about what, the fact that it's sold well? :roll: There are lots of them around here too, in fact I'd say they're Common, two steps from the top on my personal 7 point "numbers I see" scale, below Frequent or Ubiquitous (the latter is for cars like the CivCamCordOrolla, and Prii' could be Frequent or Ubiquitous), but ranking above Unique, Rare, Uncommon and Infrequent.

The Model 3 doesn't meet my needs and wants and I don't care for the frontal look (not that that would be a deal-killer for me), but seeing lots of them doesn't makes me disillusioned. I'm happy to see any and all ZEVs on the road, especially when I'm riding my bike and sitting behind one of them while stopped.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 10454
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:21 pm

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
GRA wrote:I imagine there are more than a few brand-agnostic CUV people like me who reject the Model X for the FWD, which make it impossible to carry anything on the roof (esp. kayaks or canoes), never mind the extra cost, weight, unreliability and slowness of operation. Others want a more squared-off rear top round-down to maximize cargo height as far aft as possible and are willing to sacrifice Cd, and so on. The Model X wins for range, charging speed (probably) and network (for the moment). The others all have their good and bad points too, and it's entirely possible to be brand-agnostic and choose one of them over the Model X - it's the mix of features that would lead me to the EQC at the moment, not that it's the best in all categories. Do any of them meet all my major (never mind minor) requirements? No.

Okay, so expand the criteria list, but it still doesn't change the fact that you all were NOT Tesla sales to lose. You wouldn't have ever considered the model X, because it didn't meet your criteria. So if you needed a new car, you would've chosen an ICE car instead. However, with the e-tron and i-Pace now available, you might consider that over the ICE car. See how the EV market expanded?

As I wrote before, they're all way too big and expensive for me, but that won't be the case with others. What matters is whether or not the market has actually expanded, or it's just shifted sales from one car to another and the totals are stagnant. Higher-end cars like the ones mentioned are less affected by the presence or absence of subsidies, but they still are affected. Mass market cars are even more heavily impacted, and I expect a major Model 3 sales spike this month followed by an even larger decrease in July as the subsidy drops another $1,875, and we'll have to see if they can overcome the subsidy differential and keep the market growing.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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