You Might Be a Leaf Driver If...

[Nubo]

Anytime you open any type of door or cupboard you expect to hear some beeps.

 

[mbender]

- When you're a passenger in an ICE that needs to stop at a gas station, you vaguely recall to yourself, "Oh yeah, this is what they look like from the inside. And look at all these customers... :evil: "

- You can't really remember the last time you had to get brake pads, though you're pretty sure that you did do that for previous cars.

 

[RegGuheert]

- You can't really remember the last time you had to get brake pads, though you're pretty sure that you did do that for previous cars.

It looks like you have a 2014, so this applies. I felt the same way about our 2011 UNTIL it got the P3227 update. Now I have to regularly waste energy destroying brake pads.

It will be interesting to see if the brake pads in the LEAF outlive the brake pads in our Honda Civic Hybrid, which is almost exactly ten years older. With the cold weather we have around here in the wintertime, the LEAF no longer has as much regeneration as the Honda. With the LEAF being a heavier car, that means quite a bit more braking on the mountain than the Honda.

 

[mbender]

- You can't really remember the last time you had to get brake pads, though you're pretty sure that you did do that for previous cars.

It looks like you have a 2014, so this applies. I felt the same way about our 2011 UNTIL it got the P3227 update. Now I have to regularly waste energy destroying brake pads.

It will be interesting to see if the brake pads in the LEAF outlive the brake pads in our Honda Civic Hybrid, which is almost exactly ten years older. With the cold weather we have around here in the wintertime, the LEAF no longer has as much regeneration as the Honda. With the LEAF being a heavier car, that means quite a bit more braking on the mountain than the Honda.

So I have a 2015, does it still apply? Are you saying that the P3227 update was "pre-installed" after a certain date? In B-Mode I seem to have ample regeneration (compared to the 2012 for sure), but I may not know what I'm missing. I really should educate myself here on that update (e.g., should I not have something done?), but thought I'd ask here for expediency's sake!

 

[RegGuheert]

So I have a 2015, does it still apply? Are you saying that the P3227 update was "pre-installed" after a certain date? In B-Mode I seem to have ample regeneration (compared to the 2012 for sure), but I may not know what I'm missing. I really should educate myself here on that update (e.g., should I not have something done?), but thought I'd ask here for expediency's sake!

You should be fine. Nissan (supposedly) gave us the programming that the 2013-and-later LEAFs came with. But they forgot to figure in that we have no "B" mode in our cars, so regeneration is anemic, particularly in the cold and with a battery that is degraded.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

So I have a 2015, does it still apply? Are you saying that the P3227 update was "pre-installed" after a certain date? In B-Mode I seem to have ample regeneration (compared to the 2012 for sure), but I may not know what I'm missing. I really should educate myself here on that update (e.g., should I not have something done?), but thought I'd ask here for expediency's sake!

You should be fine. Nissan (supposedly) gave us the programming that the 2013-and-later LEAFs came with. But they forgot to figure in that we have no "B" mode in our cars, so regeneration is anemic, particularly in the cold and with a battery that is degraded.

2011/2012 Leafs do have a "B" mode. It's just tied to the ECO mode. The 2013+ separates B for regen behavior from ECO for acceleration behavior. In the 2011/2012, the two are tied together. So when you put the 2011 Leaf in ECO, it is the same as putting the 2013+ in ECO+B.

The said, regen is certainly anemic in the cold. Is this not true in the newer Leafs? I haven't played around with one in the cold.

 

[RegGuheert]

The said, regen is certainly anemic in the cold. Is this not true in the newer Leafs?

I think "B" mode in the 2013s and later has stronger regen than is available in the 2011s and 2012s, even in ECO mode. Reports are that significant regen (four bubbles) is available in "B" mode, even at very high SOCs, which has never been true with any 2011 or 2012 LEAF. Perhaps someone else will comment on cold-weather performance.

 

[dgpcolorado]

The said, regen is certainly anemic in the cold. Is this not true in the newer Leafs?

I think "B" mode in the 2013s and later has stronger regen than is available in the 2011s and 2012s, even in ECO mode.

Some of those who have both models have said otherwise.

Reports are that significant regen (four bubbles) is available in "B" mode, even at very high SOCs, which has never been true with any 2011 or 2012 LEAF. Perhaps someone else will comment on cold-weather performance.

It seems increasingly clear that the regen at high SOC is, indeed, improved over that of 2011/2012 LEAFs when they were new. The question remains as to how quickly they will lose regen as their batteries degrade. At the very least, if degradation is slowed regen decline ought to be slowed as well.

 

[RegGuheert]

I think "B" mode in the 2013s and later has stronger regen than is available in the 2011s and 2012s, even in ECO mode. Reports are that significant regen (four bubbles) is available in "B" mode, even at very high SOCs, which has never been true with any 2011 or 2012 LEAF.

You pulled these two sentences apart and commented on them separately when in reality the second sentence is simply written as support for the first sentence.

It seems increasingly clear that the regen at high SOC is, indeed, improved over that of 2011/2012 LEAFs when they were new.

IMO, "stronger" in my statement means the same thing as "improved" means in yours. Bottom line: Regen in "B" mode in the 2013 and later LEAFs is NOT the same as it was in ECO in the 2011/2012s, which is the question that I was responding to. It is, in fact, stronger/improved (at least at high SOCs).

 

[dgpcolorado]

...IMO, "stronger" in my statement means the same thing as "improved" means in yours. Bottom line: Regen in "B" mode in the 2013 and later LEAFs is NOT the same as it was in ECO in the 2011/2012s, which is the question that I was responding to. It is, in fact, stronger/improved (at least at high SOCs).

Ok, to me "stronger" means more kW available when maximum regen is permitted. And that's what matters when descending hills: even when new, and well below "100%" SOC, the LEAF regen is too pathetic to control speed on steep hills without using the brake pedal. Reports from those who drive both older and newer models suggest that regen isn't stronger on the 2013 and later models, just that you get some regen at high SOC levels, and that it isn't deliberately crippled as happened with the P3227 update on the older LEAFs.

I suppose that one of the advantages of future bigger battery EVs is that there will be way more regen available due to more room in the battery for it.

 

[RegGuheert]

Ok, to me "stronger" means more kW available when maximum regen is permitted.

That's why I detailed what I meant. It is clear that a 2013 in "B" mode has more regen under some identical conditions when compared with a 2011/2012 in ECO mode. It is "stronger" in many cases.

In my post-P3227 2011 LEAF in ECO mode with 12 capacity bars still remaining, I NEVER have max regen available below 20F, regardless of the SOC of the battery. I seriously doubt the 2013s and later would have such little regen in "B" mode after similar degradation. Just like their "B" mode offers more regen under other circumstances.

My opinion is that the P3227 update offers no equivalent to the 2013 "B" mode in 2011/2012s. In other words, they copied the code from the 2013s and forgot that there is no "B" button, so we lost our ability to access extra regen in the 2011/2012s ECO mode.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think I ever get all regen bubbles in my 2013 in frigid weather, either. At most I'm one short.

 

[dgpcolorado]

...My opinion is that the P3227 update offers no equivalent to the 2013 "B" mode in 2011/2012s. In other words, they copied the code from the 2013s and forgot that there is no "B" button, so we lost our ability to access extra regen in the 2011/2012s ECO mode.

Interesting hypothesis!

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Ok, to me "stronger" means more kW available when maximum regen is permitted.

That's why I detailed what I meant. It is clear that a 2013 in "B" mode has more regen under some identical conditions when compared with a 2011/2012 in ECO mode. It is "stronger" in many cases.

In my post-P3227 2011 LEAF in ECO mode with 12 capacity bars still remaining, I NEVER have max regen available below 20F, regardless of the SOC of the battery. I seriously doubt the 2013s and later would have such little regen in "B" mode after similar degradation. Just like their "B" mode offers more regen under other circumstances.

My opinion is that the P3227 update offers no equivalent to the 2013 "B" mode in 2011/2012s. In other words, they copied the code from the 2013s and forgot that there is no "B" button, so we lost our ability to access extra regen in the 2011/2012s ECO mode.

Since getting the P3227 update, the only time I have noticed less regen in ECO is at sub-freezing temperatures. I don't often charge above 80%, so I wouldn't have noticed a difference at a high SoC. However, when temps are above 32F and SoC is less than 80%, ECO performs the same pre- and post-P3227. And when I drove a 2013, B mode felt the same as ECO. Admittedly this is all subjective data (going by feel / observing number of "dots", not actually measuring anything). If anyone has hard data, please do share.

So while there are differences, it seems worth pointing out that much of the time, ECO does offer the equivalent regen on 2011/2012s to B mode.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Since getting the P3227 update, the only time I have noticed less regen in ECO is at sub-freezing temperatures. I don't often charge above 80%, so I wouldn't have noticed a difference at a high SoC. However, when temps are above 32F and SoC is less than 80%, ECO performs the same pre- and post-P3227. And when I drove a 2013, B mode felt the same as ECO. Admittedly this is all subjective data (going by feel / observing number of "dots", not actually measuring anything). If anyone has hard data, please do share.

So while there are differences, it seems worth pointing out that much of the time, ECO does offer the equivalent regen on 2011/2012s to B mode.

For me the update led to a considerable reduction in regen that was exacerbated by cool battery temperatures (even before the update the regen was greatly reduced at cold battery temperatures).

The reason it is so noticeable is that I have to descend a thousand foot hill every time I leave home and it is fairly steep in places (14% grade) with several hairpin turns requiring speed control for safety. Seeing only one to two regen bubbles at middle SOC levels and cool (8ºC), but not cold, battery temperatures is really annoying. 8-10 kW maximum regen at 50% SOC? Why does Nissan think this is a good idea?

The hypothesis developed by others here is that the regen algorithm is tied to battery resistance (believed to be related to the Hx number on battery meters) and that number changed a lot after the P3227 update on degraded batteries. Mine was about 11% degraded when I had the update done IIRC (I'm at 15% now). Whether any of that is true is unknown. Regardless, it is something that Nissan should fix IMO.