Why isn't there more unity in EV community?

[TomT]

I'm going to assume you are kidding as one would have to be pretty thin skinned to be bothered by this... The term redneck is used most everywhere, in a multitude of situations, by a large cross-section of the population, and without negative connotation in most cases. In fact, it is lovingly used in many contexts...

We have become FAR to PC these days... At least they aren't illegal, err, excuse me, undocumented... :lol:

I also love that it is the pot calling the kettle black here! Read your own FUD sometime...

- however in our little redneck part of Colorado

You should be aware that terms like this are a slur and should not be posted on any kind of public forum

 

[thankyouOB]

well, hush.
some of my favorite relatives are rednecks.

 

[apvbguy]

I'm going to assume you are kidding as one would have to be pretty thin skinned to be bothered by this... The term redneck is used most everywhere, in a multitude of situations, by a large cross-section of the population, and without negative connotation in most cases. In fact, it is lovingly used in many contexts...

We have become FAR to PC these days... At least they aren't illegal, err, excuse me, undocumented... :lol:

- however in our little redneck part of Colorado

You should be aware that terms like this are a slur and should not be posted on any kind of public forum

it all depends on the context and yours appeared to be a disparaging comment, excuse the interruption if I misinterpreted that. inflection doesn't play well in text.

 

[Nubo]

The term "compliance car" is thrown around in this forum like a slur.

Why does it matter why a manufacturer makes a car or where they sell it, as long as it's compelling enough to get more people interested in EVs? You guys should embrace ANY progress in the EV space. Or are you all just worried about competition for your favorite public L2/DCFC?

I see 3 reasons.

First it indicates that the manufacturer is producing the vehicle grudgingly. This doesn't bode well for service or support.

Second, since they are producing the car only to preserve their market in ICE vehicles, they are willing to take a significant loss. Let's say they sell a $50K car for $35K. This ends up being unfair competition to any company that is actually committed to selling EVs as a product line.

Third, I personally would rather spend my money with a company that is actually committed to producing electric vehicles. Because my desire is to see the technology succeed. I don't want to simply enable some flash in the pan so that some other company can pay lip service and continue to ignore the issue.

 

[cwerdna]

because a cynical mfr came up with a competing standard for their own compliance car to sow FUD among PEV buyers

Wow...speaking of FUD... :roll:

Ummm... you're new here. Perhaps you're unaware of the shenanigans that GM has pulled along w/the Frankenplug cast. See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=256517#p256517" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=183351#p183351" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Here's the current roll call of the Frankenplug cast: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=279363#p279363" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Look at the # of stations at http://www.chademo.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Then look at BEV sales numbers at http://www.hybridcars.com/december-2012-dashboard" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and http://www.hybridcars.com/april-2013-dashboard/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, paying in particular attention to the # of sales of compliance cars (e.g. Rav4 EV, Fit EV).

 

[Luft]

- however in our little redneck part of Colorado

You should be aware that terms like this are a slur and should not be posted on any kind of public forum

This from a man that calls people "libratards" and the president's mother a prostitute. Really dude? Really?

 

[cgaydos]

I'm going to assume you are kidding as one would have to be pretty thin skinned to be bothered by this... The term redneck is used most everywhere, in a multitude of situations, by a large cross-section of the population, and without negative connotation in most cases. In fact, it is lovingly used in many contexts...

We have become FAR to PC these days... At least they aren't illegal, err, excuse me, undocumented... :lol:

You should be aware that terms like this are a slur and should not be posted on any kind of public forum

it all depends on the context and yours appeared to be a disparaging comment, excuse the interruption if I misinterpreted that. inflection doesn't play well in text.

It was me, not Tom T, who wrote the original. You'll note that in response to your post I edited my original post, changing the term to "backwoods".

Certainly didn't mean to slur, and I can tell you that locally that term you call a slur is used frequently by many who label themselves as such. Regarding the context of what I wrote, it certainly wasn't meant to disparage my home locale - most of us who live here love the place and don't intend to move again. But we're also aware that every place has its trade-offs and we frequently joke about our shortcomings.

Finally, I observe that there is some irony that this little dust-up has occurred in a thread titled "Why isn't there more unity in EV community?"

 

[kubel]

Why does it matter why a manufacturer makes a car or where they sell it, as long as it's compelling enough to get more people interested in EVs? You guys should embrace ANY progress in the EV space.

I do not embrace fake progress. Compliance cars are poison. We should allow EVs to evolve out of their own appeal to consumers, not because a group of bureaucrats think they would look cool driving around in their utopia.

 

[cgaydos]

Why does it matter why a manufacturer makes a car or where they sell it, as long as it's compelling enough to get more people interested in EVs? You guys should embrace ANY progress in the EV space.

I do not embrace fake progress. Compliance cars are poison. We should allow EVs to evolve out of their own appeal to consumers, not because a group of bureaucrats think they would look cool driving around in their utopia.

Possibly, but what is the goal here? Remember that when the first OPEC crisis occurred in 1973-4 and the first CAFE requirements were passed as a result the auto manufacturers screamed. And yes, a number of the mid-1970s cars had a lot of problems due to trying to meet those requirements. But I remember a Road & Track comparison in 1985 of cars from the pre-CAFE days to the same cars that were then contemporary and an amazing thing had happened - by 1985 the raw performance of the post-CAFE cars had caught up with the pre-CAFE cars, but requiring on average half the fuel to do so. A great example was the Corvette.

These changes would not have happened as fast as they did without government intervention to change the marketplace incentives and influence the R&D processes of the auto manufacturers. We can have a legitimate debate about whether the CAFE mechanism was optimal - by comparison in Europe similar results were achieved with very high petrol prices, largely due to taxes, and in many countries tax incentives that significantly rewarded smaller engines. However, there is no doubt that by putting the finger on the scale the government changed the market landscape and created a better situation for everyone as a result.

I personally don't think the landmine field that is the current hodgepodge of complex EV tax incentives is the best method to incentivize EVs. And the CARB method is basically one government body doing what they have the power to do to address the situation - not necessarily the best solution overall, but the best option they have available. However, there can be no question (IMHO) that over the long run - 10 years, 15, etc - that shifting from fossil-fuel-based transportation to electric-based transportation will benefit everyone. And there also is no question (again, IMHO) that the existing companies, all intensely competing with each other, won't move to EVs very quickly on their own without something outside incentives to do so.

 

[apvbguy]

- however in our little redneck part of Colorado

You should be aware that terms like this are a slur and should not be posted on any kind of public forum

This from a man that calls people "libratards" and the president's mother a prostitute. Really dude? Really?

doesn't it suck when the tables get turned on you, yeah really

 

[Deleted member 8423]

Finally, I observe that there is some irony that this little dust-up has occurred in a threat titled "Why isn't there more unity in EV community?"

And that typo shows just how much anger there is in your heart!

Yes, I had noticed that this had turned into a thread full of bickering. But I guess that's the internet for ya. Sigh...

 

[cgaydos]

Finally, I observe that there is some irony that this little dust-up has occurred in a threat titled "Why isn't there more unity in EV community?"

And that typo shows just how much anger there is in your heart!

Yes, I had noticed that this had turned into a thread full of bickering. But I guess that's the internet for ya. Sigh...

Oops - I'll correct that typo! But, hey, we usenet old-timers have seen these kind of "flame wars" before. Oh well.

 

[Luft]

doesn't it suck when the tables get turned on you, yeah really

Okay lets bring out the ol' bullshit meter: You call people “Libratards” which I assume is a combination of Liberal and the offensive slur “retard.” You are completely oblivious that you have offended both liberal minded people and people suffering with a mental disability. You call out a person who used the term “redneck” because you find THAT offensive but somehow the tables have been turned on me??

That sir is non sequitur. Here is what does logically follow: You are really in serious need of therapy. Have you considered checking to see if your COMT gene is active? That would explain a lot.

 

[apvbguy]

doesn't it suck when the tables get turned on you, yeah really

Okay lets bring out the ol' bullshit meter: You call people “Libratards” which I assume is a combination of Liberal and the offensive slur “retard.” You are completely oblivious that you have offended both liberal minded people and people suffering with a mental disability. You call out a person who used the term “redneck” because you find THAT offensive but somehow the tables have been turned on me??

That sir is non sequitur. Here is what does logically follow: You are really in serious need of therapy. Have you considered checking to see if your COMT gene is active? That would explain a lot.

so much for flame wars

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Finally, I observe that there is some irony that this little dust-up has occurred in a threat titled "Why isn't there more unity in EV community?"

And that typo shows just how much anger there is in your heart!

Yes, I had noticed that this had turned into a thread full of bickering. But I guess that's the internet for ya. Sigh...

I agree that this happens all too easily on the internet. Back to the topic at hand, I feel that there is a lot more unity in the EV community than one would guess based on the internet. I am good friends with two Volt owners, and have a coworker who drives a Prius Plug-In. Yes, we exchange some friendly jabs at one another, but overall, we try to learn from each other - the ins and ours of each others' vehicles, and have had some great discussions about the current and future progress of plug-ins.

We recently had a local get-together where the Leaf, Volt, Model S, Fit EV, Prius Plug-in and a homebrew conversion were represented. Everyone was thrilled to see and learn about all of the cars (the Model S being the star of the show, of course).

We all poke fun at others' choices, often simply because they're different from our own. I think the internet is just the ideal place for such things to get misinterpreted and blow out of proportion.

 

[derkraut]

getoffyourgas said: "We all poke fun at others' choices, often simply because they're different from our own. I think the internet is just the ideal place for such things to get misinterpreted and blow out of proportion".

And I agree completely.