What oil subsidies?

[ttweed]

Obama recently went to Congress to get $28 B in oil subsidies removed. he was turned down. its time to ask your congressman how he voted. mine said yes. she was in a very small minority since the volt failed by over 70%

The vote was 51 to 47 in the Senate and they needed 60 votes to overcome a filibuster. The senators who voted for the subsidies received 5 times the campaign funds from the oil companies as those who voted against them, according to analysis done by MSNBC. Until we get big money out of politics, we can't expect any real progress on the problems that confront us from our elected representatives. 74% of Americans support ending big oil subsidies, yet Congress won't do it. WTF kind of representation is that? Even the oil company execs in testimony before Congress admitted they don't need the tax breaks anymore. At anything above $40/barrel, oil is a money-maker without any help at all.

TT

 

[PaulScott]

"Until we get big money out of politics, we can't expect any real progress on the problems that confront us from our elected representatives."

This is the key problem. Everyone who buys an EV stops giving money to the oil companies. So far, we have over 20,000. By the end of 2013, there will be over 100,000 of us. The growth will be very fast after that as more OEMs bring their respective plug-ins to market.

I ask my customers to use some of their savings from not buying gas to do some good. I donate a few hundred to Planned Parenthood every year because I believe in their mission and I've been a population activist for most of my life. I give some to animal rescue groups, too. I tell my customers to remember that this was money you used to give the oil companies, so doing good with it feels especially righteous.

With a few tens of thousands of people doing this, there won't be much notice, but over time, this can be a very big transfer of money. Considering that liberals are much more likely to be buying EVs initially, most of this donated money will go to liberal causes, IMO, a good thing.

 

[TRONZ]

Yes as liberal money continues moving out of oil, conservatives will be the last ones paying and at the highest prices. Has a certain poetry about it.

 

[thankyouOB]

"Until we get big money out of politics, we can't expect any real progress on the problems that confront us from our elected representatives."

This is the key problem. Everyone who buys an EV stops giving money to the oil companies. So far, we have over 20,000. By the end of 2013, there will be over 100,000 of us. The growth will be very fast after that as more OEMs bring their respective plug-ins to market.

I ask my customers to use some of their savings from not buying gas to do some good. I donate a few hundred to Planned Parenthood every year because I believe in their mission and I've been a population activist for most of my life. I give some to animal rescue groups, too. I tell my customers to remember that this was money you used to give the oil companies, so doing good with it feels especially righteous.

With a few tens of thousands of people doing this, there won't be much notice, but over time, this can be a very big transfer of money. Considering that liberals are much more likely to be buying EVs initially, most of this donated money will go to liberal causes, IMO, a good thing.

bravo, Paul.
you can see your oil men here:
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-18563_162-691413.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

they know no national boundaries for they are the true globalists with shared interests.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Yes as liberal money continues moving out of oil, conservatives will be the last ones paying and at the highest prices. Has a certain poetry about it.

Not sure what the "liberal money" is, since apparently most EV buyers are conservative, but have you considered the possibility that if a bunch of people switch to EVs gas prices would drop, and the last guy standing with the F-150 will be just fine.

 

[PaulScott]

Yes as liberal money continues moving out of oil, conservatives will be the last ones paying and at the highest prices. Has a certain poetry about it.

Not sure what the "liberal money" is, since apparently most EV buyers are conservative, but have you considered the possibility that if a bunch of people switch to EVs gas prices would drop, and the last guy standing with the F-150 will be just fine.

No chance of gas getting cheap from a "bunch of people switch(ing) to EVs". See China and India, also Israel and Iran.

Interesting that you think most EV buyers are conservative. That may be true, but I've delivered well over 200 LEAFs and I'd say at least 80% are very liberal and another 15% are moderates with maybe 5% conservative. It could be that my customers are primarily from the west side of LA, but I'd be really surprised to learn that most LEAF owners are actually conservative.

Regardless, they will not be giving their money to the most evil people on the planet, and that's what's important. Whether they want to donate any of the money they save to help make the world a better place is up to them. It's been my experience that conservatives aren't much into that sort of thing.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

i have to 2nd the notion that most EV'ers are liberals. i can definitely say i am not part of the "status quo" nor do i believe in "minimal or slow change"

now i may not be a left wing radical... but i am left handed!

 

[planet4ever]

i have to 2nd the notion that most EV'ers are liberals. i can definitely say i am not part of the "status quo" nor do i believe in "minimal or slow change". now i may not be a left wing radical... but i am left handed!

Personally, I'm very conservative. I want to conserve the planet. I want to conserve the family. I want to conserve the American way of life. I want to conserve the financial system. And I want to conserve the rights of my fellow left-handers (along with everybody else's rights).

Politically I call myself an independent, because I lean way to the right on some issues and way to the left on others.

Ray

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

i have to 2nd the notion that most EV'ers are liberals. i can definitely say i am not part of the "status quo" nor do i believe in "minimal or slow change". now i may not be a left wing radical... but i am left handed!

Personally, I'm very conservative. I want to conserve the planet. I want to conserve the family. I want to conserve the American way of life. I want to conserve the financial system. And I want to conserve the rights of my fellow left-handers (along with everybody else's rights).

Politically I call myself an independent, because I lean way to the right on some issues and way to the left on others.

Ray

Ray; i 2nd all your thoughts except the financial system. ours is broken, has been broken a long time and its effects will be multiplied during times of stress. we should not be living in a world where a jump of 4% unemployed puts the entire country into a financial tailspin while the rich still get richer.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Interesting that you think most EV buyers are conservative. That may be true, but I've delivered well over 200 LEAFs and I'd say at least 80% are very liberal and another 15% are moderates with maybe 5% conservative.

I wish I had the reference to support this, maybe someone else will recall, as a group Leaf buyers supposedly:

• Have 130k household income
• Consider themselves conservative
• Isn't all that concerned about the environment

 

[Fabio]

http://www.acmenissan.com/blog/2010/september/15/nissan-leaf-buyers.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Average income: 125k
Main concerns: "energy independence" and "environmental consciousness"

Interesting that you think most EV buyers are conservative. That may be true, but I've delivered well over 200 LEAFs and I'd say at least 80% are very liberal and another 15% are moderates with maybe 5% conservative.

I wish I had the reference to support this, maybe someone else will recall, as a group Leaf buyers supposedly:

• Have 130k household income
• Consider themselves conservative
• Isn't all that concerned about the environment

 

[downeykp]

Not concerned about the environment? Why the hell would anyone buy a leaf? One could make the case that saving money on gas is a good reason, however you would have to own your leaf a long time to make up the difference over a comparable ice.
I did not buy to save money, I did not even get the full $7500 credit. I bought so that I would not be beholden to the oil industry. I also like the fact that the car is a blast to drive. Not adding very much to climate change was big for me.

Interesting that you think most EV buyers are conservative. That may be true, but I've delivered well over 200 LEAFs and I'd say at least 80% are very liberal and another 15% are moderates with maybe 5% conservative.

I wish I had the reference to support this, maybe someone else will recall, as a group Leaf buyers supposedly:

• Have 130k household income
• Consider themselves conservative
• Isn't all that concerned about the environment

 

[thankyouOB]

Yes as liberal money continues moving out of oil, conservatives will be the last ones paying and at the highest prices. Has a certain poetry about it.

apparently most EV buyers are conservationists, but have you considered the possibility that if a bunch of people switch to EVs gas prices would drop, and the last guy standing with the F-150 will be just fine.

fixed your typo.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Not concerned about the environment? Why the hell would anyone buy a leaf?

Well I didn't say *I* wasn't concerned about the environment, but it wasn't the main reason for me getting the Leaf. Lumping "energy independence" and "environmental consciousness" is a little odd; what's the breakdown?

There are lot of other reasons to get an EV. Maybe you don't like going to gas station, getting oil changes, or the noise vibration of a gas engine. Maybe you prefer the acceleration.

The take rate on EVs will increase when people find there are valid selfish reasons to buy one, and it isn't about fighting for some cause.

 

[thankyouOB]

the true randian; selfishness is all.

 

[Herm]

Many Conservatives believe the environment is going well and improving, and great strides have been made cleaning it up.. I have not seen a river on flames lately.

Just because Liberals go big time for the AGW cult and Mother Gaia does not mean the Conservatives belong in the opposite camp. We like clean air and water also, plus plenty of animals to hunt.

 

[thankyouOB]

We like clean air and water also, plus plenty of animals to hunt.

how is that working out for you under the current system of more pollution and incremental environmental improvements that are forced on a kicking and screaming extraction industry, which wants freedom from regulations so it can top mountains for coal, pollute aquifers for natural gas, assault pristine arctic waters for deep oil extraction, waste drinking water to mine tar sands for oil?

 

[mkjayakumar]

"Not concerned about the environment? Why the hell would anyone buy a leaf?"

Nonsense. I believe we have now moved onto a stage that there are many folks who buy this because it saves them a ton of money and they believe it is reliable. That was my primary reason, and feel good environment causes are the just the icing, but the real reason is economic and driving comfort. The very first buyers might have been motivated by purely environmental, but I think there are many who buy this for other reasons.

Also your observation that it takes over a decade to get back the premium is again total faulty. With the Fed rebate, it is most likely around 4 to 5 years max.

 

[PaulScott]

"Also your observation that it takes over a decade to get back the premium is again total faulty. With the Fed rebate, it is most likely around 4 to 5 years max."

What car are you comparing the LEAF to to get this number?

 

[Stoaty]

Many Conservatives believe the environment is going well and improving, and great strides have been made cleaning it up.. I have not seen a river on flames lately.

I guess you don't live in an area where fracking has polluted water supplies.
I guess you haven't seen the environmental destruction from the tar sands.
I guess they aren't removing mountain tops where you live to get coal, polluting the streams.
I guess you haven't noticed the Republican plan to kill the EPA.
I guess you haven't noticed dead trees from the bark beetles, tied to global warming (I am seeing this where I hike; the warmer winters aren't sufficiently cold to kill the bark beetles, thus the increasing damage).

I could go on, but I doubt it would make a difference. Just because something isn't occurring in your backyard doesn't mean environmental destruction isn't happening.