What is your guaranteed, worst-case, no-anxiety range?

[GRA]

This thread is intended for people to report what ranges mainstream drivers rather than EV enthusiasts can count on, in various conditions. As such, techniques which EV enthusiasts regularly use to maximize range, but which are impractical or unacceptable to mainstream drivers, such as hypermiling, use of surface streets instead of faster freeways, limited or no use of HVAC even when it's necessary for comfort and/or convenience, do not qualify. Drive your car as if you're one of the people who've never lifted their hood and have no clue (nor do you care) if your car's power is provided by fossil fuel, batteries, squirrels running on wheels, your personal fusion reactor (from Radio Shack), or a graduate of Hogwarts. In short, drive as if the car is just a transportation tool, not a piece of cool technology.

To qualify for posting here, trips should:

1. Start with 80% Charge - you must to be able to make the same trip when the battery is approaching replacement as when it's new. If you have/want to charge to 100% to get sufficient range for winter or while you're establishing the car's capabilities, see the note in #2.

2. Not get a Low Battery Warning. Delays and diversions happen; you should keep a reserve. If you wish, you may go past LBW to a Very-Low Battery Warning, if you are comfortable with less reserve. [Note: if you're charging to 100%, when you get down to three white bars remaining, treat that as Low Battery Warning range, and when you get to only two white bars remaining treat that as Very-Low Battery Warning range, i.e. you should never deplete the battery that far. If you drive past that point, just note the range at which you hit three or two bars remaining].

3. Not use pre-heating or pre-cooling (you forgot/the power went out/it's an emergency). For bonus points, don't use battery warming either.

4. Use your HVAC system as necessary to provide comfortable (not just tolerable) conditions for you and your passengers, while wearing the clothes you'd normally wear, and with no aftermarket heating accessories. You paid $35k for the car; it should keep you as comfortable as the cheapest ICE. Report ambient temps, outside and (initial) interior, and temp settings you used on the HVAC.

5. Use your defroster and windshield wipers as necessary for safety, and report use.

6. Use your lights ditto, and report whether low/high/fog lights were used.

7. Use your infotainment system as you do otherwise; if you just have to play 'Purple Haze' at maximum volume during your trip, do so. Report.

8. Not take surface streets when there's a quicker, more convenient freeway that you'd otherwise take.

9. Not cruise in the far right lane of a multi-lane urban freeway at a speed that may be legal, but is definitely less safe. You should be a lane or two over. Cruise at whatever speed is the flow of traffic, whether that's the speed limit or something more, as long as you're comfortable doing so. Report speeds.

10. No hypermiling (drafting semis, coasting in neutral, constant power/decreasing speed up hills, etc.)

11. Report elevation gain or loss.

12. Report number of people on board, their genders, and approximate ages (infant/child/teen/adult), or else the total payload weight. You get maximum brownie points for reporting a trip carrying the maximum load (860 lb.)

13. Report Special driving conditions, such as dirt/gravel/mud/snow/chain use.

 

[evnow]

You left out other major considerations
- Terrain
- Temperature

 

[GRA]

You left out other major considerations
- Terrain
- Temperature

Temp is included in #3. I've added terrain (#11).

 

[DarkStar]

You forgot #12: Add additional mileage for "valet."

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVACbEHkV2Q[/youtube]

 

[TRONZ]

If this helps. I have absolutely zero-anxiety-who-cares-don't-even-glance-at-mileage when I know the "guess o meter" is showing about twice the available miles as my trip will take. Operating within this 50% rule I never even think about range, ever. When I stray above this rule, anxiety grows exponentially from 50% to 100% of miles needed to miles "guessed". At 80% needed to what's indicated, I plan a charge before leaving.

Hope this helps.

 

[abasile]

This afternoon my in-laws drove our LEAF to Lake Arrowhead, CA and back, roughly a 23 mile round-trip with at least 1400 feet of ascending and descending. They started with six bars of charge, or roughly 55% SOC. It was around 20° last night, with a high of perhaps 40° today, and the battery temperature hasn't risen above four bars in a while. I would not consider my in-laws as hypermilers, as when they drive the Prius they average roughly 47 or 48 mpg according to the display, lower than the EPA rating. They returned with two bars of charge, which is at least about 25% SOC. I don't know whether or not they used climate control. Starting with 80% SOC, I'd feel comfortable sending them on a 40 mile roundtrip drive in our current weather (perhaps to the far side of Big Bear, CA and back), or further if they can charge somewhere.

 

[davewill]

Even a bad driver can usually manage 3.3-3.5 mi/kWh, which gives around 70mi @ 21kWh...assuming that a newbie driver is going to freak if they have to drive past the very low bat warning, I'd set the absolutely safe range for a novice at 60 mi. I'm not in a good location to speak to cold weather, but perhaps 50mi in very cold weather?

 

[TonyWilliams]

Even a bad driver can usually manage 3.3-3.5 mi/kWh, which gives around 70mi @ 21kWh...assuming that a newbie driver is going to freak if they have to drive past the very low bat warning, I'd set the absolutely safe range for a novice at 60 mi. I'm not in a good location to speak to cold weather, but perhaps 50mi in very cold weather?

EDIT: 21.25 miles.

I got 2.9 miles/kWh here in not-very-sunny San Diego during our last heavy rain storm in November (heavy wipers, lights, pushing standing water on road). Per the confines of this debate, with no big hills climbed, mostly sea level up to about 580 feet elevation.

I'd say 50 miles, from 100%, which should be right at Low Battery Warning. (2.9 x 21 = 61 miles, leaving 11 mile reserve). That's assuming a battery without any losses from cold ambient temperatures on the battery.

But, I'll never experience really cold weather, so my vote really doesn't mean much. It certainly depends on how cold, and what hills. All the other stuff is teeny tiny by comparison.

I have thought what I might need to let my mother drive this car in Montana. The nearest "town" for her to drive to is 54 miles away. Could she make it one way in the winter during a storm? No, not even close. That's with zero reserve. In that scenario, I'd want to do some extensive testing in -20C air before I even let her touch the car. Might even consider an aux battery just to heat the battery and cabin.

EDIT: Ok, let me further downgrade my worst case, no anxiety range. I see you want it from 80% to about 17% (LBW), so 63% of the available capacity of the battery of 21kWh usable, so about 13.5kWh to burn. At -20C, which is about as cold as I'd let the battery be exposed to, there's going to be a 40%+ reduction in available capacity, so 13.5 available less 5kWh for cold losses, equals 8.5kWh to burn to maintain your reserve.

With the heater blasting, and no pre-heating, I don't know how bad the economy could possibly get; 2.5miles/kWh might be too optimistic. 2.5 * 8.5 = 21.25 miles. Add a few more miles if you run it to VLB, but my mother will have instant range anxiety with just the first battery warning.

 

[smkettner]

I guaranty if the person does not understand what they are driving they should be in a Volt or other ICE vehicle.

 

[jkyu99]

In six months, my worse day was 3 m/kw. You wanted 80% charge (I always do 100%, but otherwise use all of the other restrictions and caveats, in this case it was 68 degrees, freeway, 1000' foot elevation change, alone, traveling with traffic (scal 75 mph) and in that scenario 50 miles is no sweat.

aside: My average day has been 5+ m/kw, and that is the same run, except I do the speed limit of 65 mph. So truth is I don't sweat until 75 miles. I did worry once about getting 85 miles on one longer loop multi-stop trip. To help my anxiety, I planned out where I would refuel, but then never had to make use of the refuel plan.

 

[adric22]

I hate to say it, but given all of the criteria, and in order for me not to feel any range anxiety whatsoever, 25 miles is probably about tops for me. The killer there is the 80% charge.

Of course, my daily commute is only 10 miles, so I have never felt any range anxiety for my daily drive. Even one time when my wife drove the car on the weekend and forgot to plug it back in leaving me with 50% battery capacity that morning, I still had no range anxiety.

I definitely think the Leaf is currently targeted at people with very short commutes. I think even with the option of charging at work, I would not want a Leaf if I couldn't make the round-trip without the charge. I mean, what happens if you get to work and there is an emergency or you get sick or something and need to leave right away? That being the case, I think the Leaf is suited to people with round-trips of under 40 miles. Fortunately, a huge percentage of Americans drive less than 40 miles per day.

 

[scottf200]

Great thread!!! Someone is thinking of the what the normal folks/spouses need. I'm driving with heated comforts here in Chicagoland now (25F on way home from work) and I'm getting 30 EV miles instead of 45 that I got all summer ... that's 2/3rds. 50 in the Leaf would seem very reasonable.

 

[evnow]

I just completed a 35 mile drive @ 26F. Driving on highway with traffic and hot cabin. Even did a pre-heat on battery before driving back. Got 3.2 m/kwh or 67 miles @ 100%, 54 miles @ 80% (50 to v. low battery).

BTW, it's not difficult to get worse range by deliberately driving badly.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I just completed a 35 mile drive @ 26F. Driving on highway with traffic and hot cabin. Even did a pre-heat on battery before driving back. Got 3.2 m/kwh or 67 miles @ 100%, 54 miles @ 80% (50 to v. low battery).

Those numbers seem to all be based on 21kWh.... which won't be available at low temps.

 

[AmpUpCO]

Excellent post!

I'm just a week or so away from picking up my 2012 SL, and this data is extremely beneficial. From what I've read so far, I will only be able to contribute to this thread with weekend driving data.

My daily 40 mile minimum RT commute in Denver this winter will require me to adjust my driving habits a bit to make it and I'm prepared for a minimum level of anxiety to do so.

Keep up the great work, Gang!

And please do your best to present your data in the format outlined by GRA. The little details really help paint a picture of the Leaf's performance capabilities.

 

[jkirkebo]

I just completed a 35 mile drive @ 26F. Driving on highway with traffic and hot cabin. Even did a pre-heat on battery before driving back. Got 3.2 m/kwh or 67 miles @ 100%, 54 miles @ 80% (50 to v. low battery).

Those numbers seem to all be based on 21kWh.... which won't be available at low temps.

I didn't see much capacity loss at one temperature bar and 3 F outside. No regen for quite a while though, even with a 80% charge. Still did 62 miles on 77% of the battery with heater blasting all the time. There was some elevation loss, but mostly at the start when I had no regen at all.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

has to be some disclaimers here.

first off; Nissan Engineers reportedly drove as inefficiently as they could and did no worse than 50 miles. if you are taking a trip that may tax your range, then 100% is a no brainer

2nd thing; as a person that is going thru their 2nd winter "enjoying" a 20 mile reduction in range only means that i alter my driving style a bit. it most certainly DOES NOT mean i alter the car i am driving. i did not buy a Leaf to leave it parked in the garage!!

after all that. i see no less than about 70 miles with pretty demanding route.

this would be roundtrip driving from "Lakes" area in Lacey to Providence Centralia Hosipital. its about 63 miles roundtrip. I drive it and have 10-15 miles left. She drives it and has about 4-5 miles left give or take

my drive; i go up and back at 55 mph. minimal climate control. car temps about 40-45º stay long enough for lunch then return.

her drive; she is usually running late so 65 down there with heat. normally has range anxiety coming home so 60 coming home with heat. (i turn on car and heat is set to 80 with fan on high. she normally runs heat all the time split foot/.defrost)

the big factor here is the heat. i dont use it (i have car seat heater which is sufficient. now for weeks like this past one where temps have been much colder, i do sit on my hands from time to time :? )

the other factor is defrost. when its cold here, the humidity is low (that is why we rarely get snow) due to clearer skies so defrost is not as needed.

on my hyper mile trip i most likely failed to get 100 miles because it was cold. sure i did not defrost much but the batteries were too cold and my test went over two days. but keep in mind; during a period of two days where temps were in low to mid 30's i did get 93.9 miles without getting to turtle mode. (estimated range was 96 miles)

 

[garygid]

With cold conditions, Heater, 75 mph fast (or 10 mph slow) freeway, going uphill the whole way (like I-5 North going over the pass) ... lucky to get 25 miles, I suspect.

 

[abasile]

With cold conditions, Heater, 75 mph fast (or 10 mph slow) freeway, going uphill the whole way (like I-5 North going over the pass) ... lucky to get 25 miles, I suspect.

Indeed. Even with slow, gentle driving and warmer weather, the 16 mile, 5000 foot climb up CA-330 from Highland, CA to our community of Arrowbear Lake, CA requires close to half of a full charge. Try the climb at closer to 55 mph with a cold battery and the heater blasting, and you'd better leave Highland with a full charge (if you can find a place to charge). If it's snowing and the Highway Patrol requires tire chains to be installed halfway up the mountain, then you might not make it at all. (However, I probably could make it to a friend's house at a lower elevation, and pick up enough charge to get home.)

Of course, I anticipated all of this before purchasing the LEAF, which is actually working out quite nicely for almost all of my driving. However, for the great majority of San Bernardino Mountains residents, a hybrid vehicle would be a better purchase, unless they can afford a Tesla with more range.

 

[adric22]

first off; Nissan Engineers reportedly drove as inefficiently as they could and did no worse than 50 miles. if you are taking a trip that may tax your range, then 100% is a no brainer

Well, keep in mind the original post was intended to ask if we would "feel anxiety." My response of 25 miles meant that I would never feel any anxiety under the conditions listed. That doesn't mean I wouldn't logically be able to go much further than that, though.

This thread is really beneficial in terms of what the normal person needs to know. it is one thing that I can tell somebody "Sure, I can get 100 miles in my Leaf" But I'm willing to driving without the climate control. I'm willing to stay in the slow lane and drive the speed limit or avoid the highway all together on longer trips. Most people are not accustomed to that and would not be willing to live with those conditions.

That being said, under the conditions set 25 miles is a good range that you could tell anyone, regardless of how they drive and what the weather is like, will always be able to make it back home without any loss of creature comforts and without any anxiety whatsoever of running out of power. Could they go further than that? Sure.. probably a lot further. Would they have anxiety on their return trip? Probably.