wasting money on 30 amp units ??

[jb2leaf]

I am considering sending in my charger and purchasing the EVSE upgrade.
Am confused about what the upgraded charger coming out in 2012 or 2013 is!(?)
Is it the the $700 quick charge option for 80% charge in 30 min. for $700.00 or something else?
If there is a future quick charge upgrade coming in near future, is the EVSE upgrade a waste of money?

 

[91040]

The rumor is that Nissan will replace the 3.3kW charger in the car with a 6.6kW charger for the 2013 model. To utilize this to the fullest, you will need a 240V, 30A circuit.

The 16A EVSE upgrade charges the present LEAF as fast as the car will allow. There is no indication that it will be feasible to upgrade the present cars with the 6.6kW charger.

This has nothing to do with Quick Charge (CHAdeMO). There may be a competing QC standard that S.A.E. is working on.

 

[DaveEV]

The upgraded charger rumored to be available on 2013 cars changes the onboard AC/DC converter to handle 7.2kW compared to 3.6kW L2 charging currently. This will let you charge from empty to full in less than 4 hours rather than the 8 hours it currently takes.

The $700 DC Quick Charge option lets you use CHAdeMO charging stations (which are rare at this point in time). You can charge from empty to 80% in 30 minutes - the charge to 100% from 80% will take about another 30 minutes.

The EVSE upgrade upgrades your 120V/12A portable L1 charge cord to handle 240V/12A (or 16A if you get that option) as well. Then with the proper adapters you can easily charge up at L2 rates which is quite a time saver if needed.

 

[EVDRIVER]

I would not expect any 2012 models to have 6.6kw charging.

 

[Stanton]

I just don't get people's remorse/regret with having a 3kW charger instead of a 6+kW charger in the initial version of the Leaf. I'm not going to drive anywhere that I can't charge overnight, so whether it takes 4 or 8 hours to charge makes no difference (and I usually require no more than 4 hours charging @3kW anyway). Sure, there will be other EVs with higher capacity chargers (ironically even if they have lower capacity battery packs), but spending (big) money to retrofit a perfectly good car makes no sense to me.

 

[91040]

I have no regrets over buying this car. However for a comparatively small extra cost ($1K?), Nissan could have installed a 6.6kW charger. I do many trips where I need to recharge. Besides the convenience of halving the turnaround time, it would make some trips doable within the time constraints I have. Of course if CHAdeMO was available in CA...

 

[EVDRIVER]

I just don't get people's remorse/regret with having a 3kW charger instead of a 6+kW charger in the initial version of the Leaf. I'm not going to drive anywhere that I can't charge overnight, so whether it takes 4 or 8 hours to charge makes no difference (and I usually require no more than 4 hours charging @3kW anyway). Sure, there will be other EVs with higher capacity chargers (ironically even if they have lower capacity battery packs), but spending (big) money to retrofit a perfectly good car makes no sense to me.

Not everyone has your driving habits and it would be foolish to retrofit the car it is just to costly for that small gain. Some of us do quite a bit of opportunity charging and must sit for hours some days. In addition once people pay by the hour for charging they will see why a faster charger is beneficial. If you simply charge at night it is a non issue. If Nissan had put a larger charger in of 2X the speed it would cost them a few hundred dollars in volume. Double that and I would gladly pay $600-1000 to have that option. Old topic. Just having that takes my car from an 80% driver to a 98% driver. I can go to wine country, far up the coast and down without having to arrive at 8:00 am to get a full days charge to go home. I don't need QC just something that let's e get home the same day.

As far as spending more on a larger L2 is a wast IMO. A converted unit for under $300 will charge the car at home and away. Once one gets a car with a charger that required more than that it will likely be less than the difference of the cost today. Spending for future compatibility on electronics is usually a loosing game. In this case wire for the future and spend as little as possible. This is the same trap EV drivers fell into before but are not repeating because they learned. Also, a converted EVSE will still work as a portable eves on any EV.

 

[smkettner]

I am considering sending in my charger and purchasing the EVSE upgrade.
Am confused about what the upgraded charger coming out in 2012 or 2013 is!(?)
Is it the the $700 quick charge option for 80% charge in 30 min. for $700.00 or something else?
If there is a future quick charge upgrade coming in near future, is the EVSE upgrade a waste of money?

Yes the QC port is a $700 option but you do need a QC station to use it.

EVSE upgrade is never a waste of money. This is a solid value to recharge at the best rate available depending on where you are.

 

[essaunders]

My 30 amp unit was 1100 installed. I'll get 30% back on that. Toyota's leviton 16 am unit is rumored to be $1000 installed, but I think you have to have the PiP for that price. I don't think I really could have done better.

That being said, a 30 amp charger would really be useful for opportunity charging or if I had a really tight off peak window

 

[planet4ever]

That being said, a 30 amp charger would really be useful for opportunity charging or if I had a really tight off peak window

You mean a 30A EVSE, of course, and as others have said, it buys you nothing at all with the current LEAF, which has a 3.3 kW (16A) charger. The only argument for it is that it might give you faster charging sometime in the future when you get a different car.

In general, "opportunity charging" refers to charging away from home, when you pop into a mall, restaurant, theater, or whatever, for a while. Obviously a 30A EVSE at home is of no use for that, though a 6.6 kW charger in the car would be. I'm sure there are a few people who make long trips (>50 miles) in the morning, and again in the afternoon, and plan to get a different EV so they will have time to recharge at home in between, but there can't be many of those.

So for 99% of all LEAF owners the only argument for a 30A EVSE would seem to be that they might someday have an EV with a faster charger, and might be on an electric plan with a very short off-peak period, and drive more miles per day than will fit within that short period. You need to ask yourself if you meet all three of those criteria. And if the extra cost now for something that might save a little money some time in the future is worth it.

Ray

 

[essaunders]

No I really meant a 6.6kw charger. My real issue is -unless I hijack the kitchen range plug, I'm really unlikely to find a 30-40 amp supply at a friend or family house. But, a 6+ kw charger would be perfect for all these 30amp public EVSE installs. I could drive 70+ miles, shop for a few hours and be able to get home. Of course, maybe Nissan was banking on widespread DC at this point. That would support the 3.3kw charger decision.

 

[leafme]

Like many (most?) dealers, yours is misinformed and wrong.

Nissan has no plans to offer an upgrade to the built-in 3.3 kw charger of our 2011/2012 Leafs.

Not according to my dealer, who mentioned the 6.6 kw charger for the 2013 leafs will be available for a retrofit for "hundreds" of dollars i.e. $999 or less.

In DEC 2010 at the Nissan design center here in San Diego, Mark Perry told me Nissan is planning on making available an upgrade to the 3.3 kW charger on the LEAF. Maybe they've changed their minds since then but this is the story he personally told me at that time.

Malcolm

 

[jb2leaf]

Is the 6.6 KW charger coming on the 2013 Leaf?

If I wait for the 2013 with the 6.6KW, what would that do for me different than the 2012
(I assume faster charging, but how fast?)?

 

[brent]

No I really meant a 6.6kw charger. My real issue is -unless I hijack the kitchen range plug, I'm really unlikely to find a 30-40 amp supply at a friend or family house. But, a 6+ kw charger would be perfect for all these 30amp public EVSE installs. I could drive 70+ miles, shop for a few hours and be able to get home. Of course, maybe Nissan was banking on widespread DC at this point. That would support the 3.3kw charger decision.

You won't find many 30 amp plugs at your friends houses either.
The best portable deal is the EVSE conversion to 220 V and the Quick 220. This will give you 12 amps of
220V charge. With the Quick 220 you plug the device into a standard 15 amp 120 V outlet and then use an
extension cord to find another outlet the is on the other phase of 120. When you find one, the light on the
Quick-220 comes on and you plug your upgraded Nissan charger into the outlet of the Quick-220 and your charging
twice as fast as the standard Nissan 120V plug.

If you go for the EVSE-Upgrade to 16 amps, then you've got to find 20 amp circuits to plug it into, otherwise you're
going to be tripping circuit breakers. But it is about 2 1/2 times faster than Nissan's 120 V unit.

 

[TomT]

Yep, he was saying that then... But he and others have since indicated that it almost certainly is not going to happen. There is simply too much to change in the car and it would be too expensive.

In DEC 2010 at the Nissan design center here in San Diego, Mark Perry told me Nissan is planning on making available an upgrade to the 3.3 kW charger on the LEAF. Maybe they've changed their minds since then but this is the story he personally told me at that time.

 

[smkettner]

I doubt the retrofit charger would be cost effective unless a person was replacing the battery with a significant (100%+) capacity increase.
You can bet if I could get a 400 mile battery to swap in, I would opt to get a 6.6+ charging system with it.

 

[KeiJidosha]

Is the 6.6 KW charger coming on the 2013 Leaf?

If I wait for the 2013 with the 6.6KW, what would that do for me different than the 2012
(I assume faster charging, but how fast?)?

I have not heard Mark Perry say yes, but it is rumored that the LEAF produced in Smyrna, will have a 6.6kW on-board charger.

Twice as fast (half the time). It depends on your driving, but you would add ~24 miles per hour charging at 6.6kW, as opposed to ~12 miles per hour charging at 3.3kW.

 

[scottwilcox]

I don't think Nissan can admit to having a 6.6kw charger on the 2013. Anyone ordering in the near term might orphan their car to get a 2013 and sales of 2012 might suffer.

I think it is a matter of people opting for the 6.6 charger even if they do not need one. I personally drive about 10-12 miles in a day but would wait for a 2013 if it had the 6.6 kw charger. There is no public charging yet in my area. If I couild pick up 24 miles in an hour of charging instead of 12 that might help on days I drive home and could charge before going out again. I don't think I would ever drive more than 40 miles in a day but Nissan has me so worried with all their responses to my questions about why they will not sell me a LEAF that I think the 40 mile range will beyond the possibility of the LEAF.

 

[padamson1]

I don't think Nissan can admit to having a 6.6kw charger on the 2013. Anyone ordering in the near term might orphan their car to get a 2013 and sales of 2012 might suffer.

I think it is a matter of people opting for the 6.6 charger even if they do not need one. I personally drive about 10-12 miles in a day but would wait for a 2013 if it had the 6.6 kw charger. There is no public charging yet in my area. If I couild pick up 24 miles in an hour of charging instead of 12 that might help on days I drive home and could charge before going out again. I don't think I would ever drive more than 40 miles in a day but Nissan has me so worried with all their responses to my questions about why they will not sell me a LEAF that I think the 40 mile range will beyond the possibility of the LEAF.

Not sure what kind of questions you are asking the folks at Nissan, but a quick perusal of postings on this Forum should make you feel confident of 40mi range even in the dead of winter @30deg (F). 80mi would definitely take some sacrifice, but I wouldn't put it out the realm of possibility if there was no elevation change and you were not going above 50mph.

Nissan is customer support is still figuring how to deal with an EV, I think actual owners is a better source of information than the manufacturer anyway.

 

[Ingineer]

If that's the case the option I previously mentioned of tapping into the DC lines directly and using a Manzanita charger might actually work pretty well for you and would be much cheaper than buying a ChaDeMo charger anyway. Of course there's no "off-the-shelf" solution for you, but then again the current market for ChaDeMo chargers probably isn't much better.

There is almost no way to "tap the lines" and use a Manzanita PFC charger. First off, you must have some sort of control system that interfaces with the Leaf's BMS to prevent overcharging. Secondly, the car would immediately fault with a severe DTC that would inhibit restart if you connected anything non-isolated (such as a Manazanita charger) to the Leaf's DC bus.

Also: You can retrofit the CHAdeMO port to a Leaf, it's just going to cost many kilobucks. You'll need several wiring harnesses, the HV DC JB, and the connector. Cost prohibitive from the dealer parts department right now, but in a year or two, I bet you'll get them cheaper from wrecked Leafs at the local junkyard.

-Phil