Was April now May

[LEAFfan]

The Leaf is just a car, it isn't Stacy. Wait 6 months, and all of this complaining will be history... and the Nissan Leaf will still be the first mass produced electric car in history. On the other hand, if you do cancel, I will get my Leaf just a bit sooner.

It is not about a "person," it is about a/the principal.
In our society, it's very foundation is based upon trust (in other terms: truth, confidence, faith, credence, conviction, assurance, etc., etc.)
I guess it would be a good thing for you if, on your paypay, they say, "Oh, do you mind 'waiting' a few more days to get paid?"
And then you come back in a week or two later, and ask for your pay, and you hear [again], "Oh, do you mind 'waiting' a few more days." (and so on).
I guarantee you would not be so.."accommodating." (especailly, if it continued on).
It is one thing to be "patient" (which, in fairness, most of us would give someone a break or two).
....but...what Nissan is doing (and has done) is a continual pattern of lies, delays, deception, and distrust!!
I don't know about you, but in my book, this is not a very good way to do business!! (and if you do believe in this, then you have a very chaotic concept of business, and most likely wouldn't mind the M.O. & practices of the Russian, Asian or other Mafia ways of business - in other words, legitimacy, trust, and common/logical business practices mean nothing to you!, right?!? -- In the Twilight Zone this may make sense, but in our real world, most of us want "results." [and truth]).
Dr. C.

Since you are a first time poster, I'm wondering how much GM has paid you to post this. Just come clean and admit you either are a salesperson for the Volt or work for GM in some capacity.

 

[edatoakrun]

The Leaf is just a car, it isn't Stacy. Wait 6 months, and all of this complaining will be history... and the Nissan Leaf will still be the first mass produced electric car in history. On the other hand, if you do cancel, I will get my Leaf just a bit sooner.

It is not about a "person," it is about a/the principal.
In our society, it's very foundation is based upon trust (in other terms: truth, confidence, faith, credence, conviction, assurance, etc., etc.)
I guess it would be a good thing for you if, on your paypay, they say, "Oh, do you mind 'waiting' a few more days to get paid?"
And then you come back in a week or two later, and ask for your pay, and you hear [again], "Oh, do you mind 'waiting' a few more days." (and so on).
I guarantee you would not be so.."accommodating." (especailly, if it continued on).
It is one thing to be "patient" (which, in fairness, most of us would give someone a break or two).
....but...what Nissan is doing (and has done) is a continual pattern of lies, delays, deception, and distrust!!
I don't know about you, but in my book, this is not a very good way to do business!! (and if you do believe in this, then you have a very chaotic concept of business, and most likely wouldn't mind the M.O. & practices of the Russian, Asian or other Mafia ways of business - in other words, legitimacy, trust, and common/logical business practices mean nothing to you!, right?!? -- In the Twilight Zone this may make sense, but in our real world, most of us want "results." [and truth]).
Dr. C.

Since you are a first time poster, I'm wondering how much GM has paid you to post this. Just come clean and admit you either are a salesperson for the Volt or work for GM in some capacity.

I don't think John Works for GM.

Sounds like he just needs to get laid.

Maybe that's why many of us are so angry about the delayed delivery of our "Chick Magnet" LEAF's...

 

[JohnTheBaptist]

It is not about a "person," it is about a/the "Principal."

(I was only using the "Stacy" story as a allegory/parable (you do know what these are, right?))

Yes, but Stacy could have "given it to you", but refused. Nissan is doing everything they can to produce cars and get them out to the customers (that is how they make money). They didn't have a contract with you to deliver by a certain date. They only have $99 of your money, and that is refundable. Like I said, feel free to cancel, but don't expect others to jump on your bandwagon about how awful Nissan is for not being able to deliver the Leaf as soon as they hoped. Yes, they did over-promise and that was a mistake. If there were other electric cars available for sale at that price it would probably hurt them... but there aren't.

Yes, you are correct that "Nissan is doing everything they can to produce cars..."

But your are incorrect in your following logic, afterwards.

The problem [overall] is in the fact, I believe (and as many others have also confirm & agreed), is in their Marketing!

Again, it is one thing to promise something, and another thing to not [fully] deliver on that promise! (Their Marketing/Advertising/Message/Commnications/etc., is CLEARLY broken and flawed!!) :evil:

When you do this, to an egregious level, this is called FALSE-advertising (that is illegal, by our legal system, if you didn't know).

So yes, yes, Nissan may be doing their very BEST to deliver cars, but they FAILED [Miserably & clearing] in not Keeping Their Word & Promises.

And if you cannot understand or see this clear logical distinction then there would be nothing more that I can say or write (because it would be clear that you cannot understand simple logic).

Advice: If this last point is the case, please consider taking a class at the local college or University on, "Logic and Proper Cognitive Critical Thinking.") - This is coming from a Professor.

Nuff said.

Dr. C.

 

[JohnTheBaptist]

The Leaf is just a car, it isn't Stacy. Wait 6 months, and all of this complaining will be history... and the Nissan Leaf will still be the first mass produced electric car in history. On the other hand, if you do cancel, I will get my Leaf just a bit sooner.

It is not about a "person," it is about a/the principal.
In our society, it's very foundation is based upon trust (in other terms: truth, confidence, faith, credence, conviction, assurance, etc., etc.)
I guess it would be a good thing for you if, on your paypay, they say, "Oh, do you mind 'waiting' a few more days to get paid?"
And then you come back in a week or two later, and ask for your pay, and you hear [again], "Oh, do you mind 'waiting' a few more days." (and so on).
I guarantee you would not be so.."accommodating." (especailly, if it continued on).
It is one thing to be "patient" (which, in fairness, most of us would give someone a break or two).
....but...what Nissan is doing (and has done) is a continual pattern of lies, delays, deception, and distrust!!
I don't know about you, but in my book, this is not a very good way to do business!! (and if you do believe in this, then you have a very chaotic concept of business, and most likely wouldn't mind the M.O. & practices of the Russian, Asian or other Mafia ways of business - in other words, legitimacy, trust, and common/logical business practices mean nothing to you!, right?!? -- In the Twilight Zone this may make sense, but in our real world, most of us want "results." [and truth]).
Dr. C.

Since you are a first time poster, I'm wondering how much GM has paid you to post this. Just come clean and admit you either are a salesperson for the Volt or work for GM in some capacity.

Why is it that if you are "critical" of something that you have to work for the competition?!?

This is plain Stupid!!

In the "Real World" someone can disagree or dislike how they are treated, and still have a VALID compliant!

(I don't know what Planet you Knucklehead’s are from, but this is AMERICA [Land of the Free (of Speech, Religion [etc.]) and YES, Complaining!!]).

PS - So NO, I don't work for GM (just a normal/thinking American customer, desiring superior service [and businesses to KEEP their stupid word!])

 

[Jimmydreams]

It IS about KEEPING-YOUR-WORD!?!?

What is soo...hard about you guys understanding that!!! :!:

Don't you want people/businesses/etc., to KEEP their Freaken Word?!?

Is it hard for you to understand that between the spokespeople making announcements and the actual delivery of your car is hundreds of workers, probably tens of thousands of parts (let's not forget distributors, shippers, etc.) plus the continual input from those that already HAVE their Leaf....any ONE of which can cause a delay in the manufacturing or delivery process of your car.

Do you want it now, or do you want it right?

You have a very childish outlook on all of this. I know you're upset, but it seems more than just Stacy did a number on you in high school....

Take a giant chill pill and relax. OR, jump ship, and put all your trust in Ford or whatever US manufacturer you choose. Just promise me that you'll be as vitriolic in your comments about them when (notice I didn't say IF) they delay, obfuscate, and otherwise do the same thing Nissan is doing. The grass is never greener on the other side, my friend. :|

 

[Stoaty]

And if you cannot understand or see this clear logical distinction then there would be nothing more that I can say or write (because it would be clear that you cannot understand simple logic).

Advice: If this last point is the case, please consider taking a class at the local college or University on, "Logic and Proper Cognitive Critical Thinking.") - This is coming from a Professor.

While in general I am against moderation, this kind of over-the-top insult from the "Professor" really should be handled by the moderators. Otherwise, the forum may degenerate into a "my penis is bigger than yours" atmosphere that has so far been absent. This would tend to drive away those seeking information and civil discourse.

 

[planet4ever]

Please don't feed the trolls.

 

[Stoaty]

Please don't feed the trolls.

Point taken. Done.

 

[smkettner]

PS – Can you tell me when the Leviton 16a EVSE is coming? (I’m dumping AV as soon as another EVSE comes out. It seems like Leviton and SPX are the only choices coming soon. Any thoughts?)

Last year it said on the Leviton website "late 2010"
It now says first quarter 2011 but don't hold your breath. I understand Leviton is waiting for UL certification.
Just like Leaf... even if it goes into production March 31 it could be months before it is widely available. Leviton has an install program and those paying for the service and install may well get first priority long before the product hits the internet retailers.

Also due to the complexity of getting both the Leaf and EVSE tax credit I am looking at using L1 if possible and buy the Leviton 160 in 2012. Might be better pricing and selection by then also.

There is a thread on about all the different models with specs and updates.
I also consider AV to be overpriced.

 

[JohnTheBaptist]

It IS about KEEPING-YOUR-WORD!?!?

What is soo...hard about you guys understanding that!!! :!:

Don't you want people/businesses/etc., to KEEP their Freaken Word?!?

Is it hard for you to understand that between the spokespeople making announcements and the actual delivery of your car is hundreds of workers, probably tens of thousands of parts (let's not forget distributors, shippers, etc.) plus the continual input from those that already HAVE their Leaf....any ONE of which can cause a delay in the manufacturing or delivery process of your car.

Do you want it now, or do you want it right?

You have a very childish outlook on all of this. I know you're upset, but it seems more than just Stacy did a number on you in high school....

Take a giant chill pill and relax. OR, jump ship, and put all your trust in Ford or whatever US manufacturer you choose. Just promise me that you'll be as vitriolic in your comments about them when (notice I didn't say IF) they delay, obfuscate, and otherwise do the same thing Nissan is doing. The grass is never greener on the other side, my friend. :|

Dude, some of you guys STILL are not getting it!! (is there any one with a brain out there?!?)

I, or anyone out there would have appreciated [more] if Nissan would have said, from the Very START, that they wouldn't have come out with the vehicle at or until the end of 2011 (and KEPT their freaken Word!), than to Promise [or over-promise] something (earlier) and NOT keep their Promise!!

In the Real World it works like that - A Business offers a product or service, and customers EXPECT them to KEEP their promise!

This is simple Business 101 (I KNOW, because I am a Technology and Business Professor!! - I TEACH THIS STUFF!!).

And some of you guys are just plain crazy to suggest that something cannot/will be promised and yet, not delivered as stated!! (again, as promised [the "key" premise here] - and/or some Loosy Goosy "Yo Yo" statements/promises.)

Again, according to "Standard" Business Practices, is Nissan WOULD OR SHOULD HAVE promised their vehicle’s, at say (a more logical & doable) schedule (say the end of 2011) and PLANNED ACCORDINGLY [another "standard" & good business practice] and built up a good supply/inventory [to readily have available for customers], then they would have been able to KEEP their promise, and almost everyone would have been HAPPY! (I certainly would have).

Companies like Microsoft and Apple are usually masters at this process (for example, rarely has a company, like Apple, made a promise, and then made customers wait an exorbitant [year or two] amount of time for a product. The longest I’ve ever observed, by Apple, was 6 months).

So DON'T tell me that I'm impatient or some other crap (again, I TEACH this stuff and thus, KNOW what I'm talking about!), where you go through a "System Development Life Cycle," where you properly PLAN, from beginning to end, from creation to implementation, your product or service you'd be bringing to the Market.

I am certain that Nissan probably had a good initial plan, but their implementation [or completion] is the absolute WORST case study I have ever observed by a International Business Organization!

As stated, I personally believe that their "Marketing Department" got ahold of the entire process and drived it into the ground (excuse the pun) - I believe if the higher-ups had allowed the "Engineering" and/or "Manufacturing" departments to drive the process then we would not have had this mess (because those [latter] departments are usually driven by [more] logically thinking people) - Most marketing people are just plain "Disney Land" [fantasy] thinking types who are indeed more the type to over-promise (again, the primary problem I believe is the case here).

OK, nuff said (I will say no more - as I already know in my job, some people [usually a small, radical minority] are just un-teachable).

Dr. C.

 

[Train]

As stated, I personally believe that their "Marketing Department" got ahold of the entire process and drived it into the ground (excuse the pun)

I don't believe you're a professor of anything.

....but...what Nissan is doing (and has done) is a continual pattern of lies, delays, deception, and distrust!!

Lies? What lies? You have evidence of this?

Again, it is one thing to promise something

What promise? Where has Nissan stated "We promise" regarding delivery of their vehicles.

 

[Train]

Oh, do you mind 'waiting' a few more days to get paid?"

Oh, please. The analogy of waiting for your pay is not accurate in the least regarding this situation.

No one here has paid a dealer or Nissan $35,000 for a car and they're waiting for it. They paid $99 to reserve a spot to order it. That's all.

No one is forcing anyone to buy a car. The consumer doesn't have to buy this car. They can get their reservation fee back if they want.

Things happen, especially when developing, manufacturing and delivering such a complex product. As someone stated, 10,000 things have to happen for everything to be right. They're human, we're human.

People really need to dial back the paranoia, conspiracy theories, allegations, and realize, as someone else stated, it's a car. It's a car that is in demand in many countries.

Nissan admits they could have done some things better. What do you want them to do? They are producing them as fast as they can. For some people to feel entitled to know what, where, why, when and how about everything is unreasonable.

 

[Boomer23]

As stated, I personally believe that their "Marketing Department" got ahold of the entire process and drived it into the ground (excuse the pun)

I don't believe you're a professor of anything.

Yes, and many other tortured English examples. I was torn between posting something like you did, Train, and the caution to avoid feeding the trolls. It was a difficult decision.

 

[walterbays]

I've done my share of complaining about Nissan's reservation system. But I think it's doing a reasonable job of keeping my fair place in line. And it's a whole lot better than this! http://personalfinancebulletin.com/pay-25000-more-for-a-chevy-volt-at-your-chevy-dealership/7100/

[Volts] are selling at $5,000 to $10,000 above the MSRP, with one car dealership loading it to an ambitious $25,000!

 

[Coffee_Slurry]

John the Baptist has changed so much over the years, I don't know who to believe any more.

I'm learning a lot of BB code, though, which should come in handy if I have to post a Ransom Note.

 

[JasonT]

(formatting removed)

Then why in the Heck can't some of you Bonehead people not see it here, with this situation?!? - AMAZING!!!

(I don't know what Planet you Knucklehead’s are from, but this is AMERICA [Land of the Free (of Speech, Religion [etc.]) and YES, Complaining!!]).

Dude, some of you guys STILL are not getting it!! (is there any one with a brain out there?!?)

Quite a few insults in a very short period of time. If this board had an "ignore" feature, I would use it. Thankfully this person's posts have a very.... unique look to them so I can easilly skip them

 

[evnow]

Don't respond to obvious trolls.

 

[lonndoggie]

Quite a few insults in a very short period of time. If this board had an "ignore" feature, I would use it.

It does--it's called the "Foe's List". I've got one user on it...now. Give it a whirl.

 

[awallis]

Wow, that Jtb is REALLY ANGRY.

I hope he is not within a 100 mile radius (which is really 80, and only 50 when you have road rage). Of course, Turbo2ltr has already pushed his pack to over 200 miles, so maybe I shouldn't joke around. [That is sort of a joke. See: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=2770]

You know, most corporations around the world are constantly trying to screw you. I mean Verizon will make you spend 4 hrs on the phone to fix an overcharge, airlines keep seeing how little they can give you. Banks, well, they would rather crash the whole economic system than loose their bonuses. So, as much as I would like to see a VIN and feel assured that my car is coming in May, I will live without it.

Things I will do with the extra waiting time:
1) Explore more chargers and electrical contractors. (Now AV REALLY DOES SUCK with their price-gouging contractors.)***
2) Stock away a little more money for my downpayment.
3) Allow Nissan to keep perfecting the car and work through the inevitable, ineluctable, unavoidable glitches associated with bringing a new product to market.
4) Enjoy a buying and pricing system that is more equitable than for other cars, even from Nissan. Thanks, Nissan, for not screwing me.
5) Enjoy the burgeoning spring here in beautiful Southern California.
6) Keep working on my potbelly.

Cheers-

Andy



***2000k for 8 feet of conduit and a junction box? Really, AV? Are just hoping that I'll put this in my car loan and pay 35 a month for 5 years? Please! THIS IS AMERICA!

 

[EVDRIVER]

6) I notice that one is at the bottom of the list