Want to buy a leaf, need to do 84 round trip 1x to 2x per month.

[powersurge]

OK, will only include my punch line...

Man, after a month of this thread... Let the guy figure out his predicament and decide for himself.... After all of this, he'll probably buy a Volt...

 

[phxsmiley]

It looks like the SV 30kwh Leaf would be able to do the 84 mile round trip commute, but there will probably be times where it will be close, considering weather changes, speed variation or unexpected errands..

I would not count on IBM letting you use an external outlet. Expect that option not to work. My experience is that the large companies consider it a safety issue and a liability and pretty actively forbid it. Sometimes smaller companies can be more open-minded about that, but that depends on whether their 'landlord' will permit it. While at Intel, they strictly forbade using an external outliet. Here at my small company, the Landlord strictly forbids it.

I would check with Plugshare and see if you have options for charging at a L2 or L3 charger on your commute home from IBM. Then, make sure there are 2 or 3 options, considering that some of those stations will definitely not be working at some time.

Also, you should consider getting the Chademo quick-charge port, especially if you find one on plugshare for your commute home. Even 10-15 minutes on that should be enough boost to get you home comfortably. You don't need to completely fill, just enough to make the commute comfortable.

 

[RockyNv]

phxsmiley - I was in facilities maintenance/management and many times having publicly accessible outlets is out of your employers and landlords hands as the insurance carriers when they do their spot inspections can and do make demands based on what their inspectors see.

At one facility the insurance companies inspector was just there to do a perimeter check for safety around the outside of the property and smelled pot being smoked inside the work yard. That triggered a full scale event that got people fired for driving heavy equipment under the influence of drugs with the problem being very much more severe than just a few pot cigarettes being smoked while on break. And yes since that triggered a more critical full insurance inspection of the facility with the local fire and code enforcement officer we got pinched for uncapped/unlocked outlets that were accessible in public areas. Weatherproof locking covers had to be installed or we faced a retroactive surcharge on our policy and much higher rates in the future plus a non-compliance fee from code enforcement. It was a lot cheaper to lock things up and comply plus we had to do this at all our complexes not just the one that they wrote up.

To me the subscription charging stations such as Charge Point do more than just provide extra management features but add a layer of safety and limit liability for the employer and landlord. I am glad that after I teased my boss for not supporting EV's that he went with the Charge Point stations and is providing them at no charge.

Employers, etc may find once they vet things out that there may be some perks in it for them to have a few Charge Points installed. Getting LEED Certified (Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design) for some businesses can be really big and installing even a few safe charging stations can be enough to tip the scales and get them certified at relatively low cost if they are needing a few more points to get there. Since LEED Certification is a globally recognized the PR benefits are far reaching and can bump up a companies ranking for consideration as a preferred partner/provider around the world which translates into more potential customers having you on the A+ list and greater profits.

This page may have been one of the things that convinced my boss to take action:
http://www.chargepoint.com/businesses/workplace/

 

[RockyNv]

OMG... I am so drained from reading so many calculations and number gyrations that people have been doing, just because a guy (who is "thinking of buying a car") decides to ask questions about range on the Leaf.....

Man, I wish I had a team of strangers spend over a month of obsessing and doing calculations to convince me to buy a car... This guy, through no fault of his own, has been pulling your wieners like a master.

Man... Let the guy figure out his predicament and decide for himself.... After all of this, he'll probably buy a Volt...

I'm going to bed....

I was glad when someone pointed out that the 124 equivalent mpg claims were not 100% accurate and encouraged me to do the math as it only takes a few very brief moments in a spreadsheet. I was able to make an informed decision because of that and not just an emotional one based on hype. Maybe you need vitamins if your so run down by 4:30 pm that you need to go to bed and it might help keep you from denigrating into vulgar and offensive word pictures, that really have no place in a family oriented forum, to emphasize your point.

 

[abasile]

Remember... The Tesla is only a high tech toy for the super-rich...

I don't think I'm super rich, unless compared with a great many people living in poverty in the Third World. Anyway, I bought a used Tesla, more than 3.5 years old with minimal battery degradation, for less than half of the original price. And the Model 3 is coming.

Anyway, if I had yet to purchase an EV and needed to make regular, long drives, I'd either wait for a Bolt or a Model 3, or look for a deal on a used Model S. The one caveat with the Bolt is GM's recent lobbying of the incoming Trump Administration to relax emission rules, on top of their efforts to lobby against Tesla's direct sales model. And the Bolt won't do Supercharging. On the other hand, the Bolt may have fewer production glitches out of the gate.

Still, $11K net in Colorado for a brand new 30kWh LEAF is pretty cheap! Outside of Colorado, used LEAFs may be great bargains for those with more modest range requirements.

 

[powersurge]

Remember... The Tesla is only a high tech toy for the super-rich...

I don't think I'm super rich, unless compared with a great many people living in poverty in the Third World. Anyway, I bought a used Tesla, more than 3.5 years old with minimal battery degradation, for less than half of the original price. And the Model 3 is coming.

Anyway, if I had yet to purchase an EV and needed to make regular, long drives, I'd either wait for a Bolt or a Model 3, or look for a deal on a used Model S. The one caveat with the Bolt is GM's recent lobbying of the incoming Trump Administration to relax emission rules, on top of their efforts to lobby against Tesla's direct sales model. And the Bolt won't do Supercharging. On the other hand, the Bolt may have fewer production glitches out of the gate.

Still, $11K net in Colorado for a brand new 30kWh LEAF is pretty cheap! Outside of Colorado, used LEAFs may be great bargains for those with more modest range requirements.

Yes, you were very lucky to buy a Tesla for about $40k? That is a bargain.

I stand with my statement. Yes, I think the current Teslas are a "latest and greatest" toy for the super-rich.... The rich will buy (or lease) them for 2-3 years to play with, and unload them at high resale prices, and get the next batch of new tech goodies...

A new Tesla is $80-110K. It is a limited production vehicle, and replacement parts will be more scarce and expensive than any other luxury car like BMW, Mercedes, Land Rover, or Jaguar... Also, when the battery goes, expect to pay sky-high battery replacement costs... I can imagine that by the time these current "low production volume" Teslas need new batteries, you will be able to buy an entire Tesla car for $10-15K because no one will want them. You will have to sink $20-30K to replace the batteries....

Although I think Tesla is a real potential player in the future EV scenario, no one who works for a living (in their right minds) should ever consider buying a new Tesla because it is still a "futuristic experiment". Anything can happen to Tesla. In my automotive experience, a reasonable person anywhere in the world needs to buy the most common, best quality, highest production model car they can get... Parts and repairs cost will be the easiest to get, lowest in price (aftermarket), and overall cost of ownership will be the lowest.

I bought a Leaf because I feel they will be reasonably supported long-term by Nissan.. Tesla is not a car for a normal American.

 

[abasile]

A new Tesla is $80-110K.

The base price on a Tesla Model S with a 60kWh battery and RWD is currently $66K before taxes and state/federal incentives (which for the time being in California would subtract $10K). Even a base car comes reasonably well equipped.

Of course, that is still a lot of money to spend on a car! I would never advise anyone to buy a Model S or Model X if their main goal is to save money on transportation. If one is looking for the most economical, reliable way to get around, assuming a car is needed at all, then a used Volt or Prius should work well. A used LEAF could fit the bill nicely if its range limitations are not an issue and the local climate won't fry LEAF batteries (as in Phoenix).

A large number of Tesla buyers to date have been "middle class" people who've been attracted to Tesla for one reason or another. There's nothing wrong with "living life" and enjoying some luxuries if one can do so responsibly, and/or choosing to vote with dollars for a future of long distance driving with no tailpipe emissions.

It is a limited production vehicle, and replacement parts will be more scarce and expensive than any other luxury car like BMW, Mercedes, Land Rover, or Jaguar...

Yes, Teslas are limited production compared to Camrys, but not compared to similar class vehicles from the manufacturers you list. Tesla has been doing quite well in the luxury segment. Foreign luxury cars (with the notable exception of Lexus, I think) can be notoriously expensive to maintain, so I wouldn't automatically consider out-of-warranty Teslas to be more expensive to own.

Also, when the battery goes, expect to pay sky-high battery replacement costs... I can imagine that by the time these current "low production volume" Teslas need new batteries, you will be able to buy an entire Tesla car for $10-15K because no one will want them. You will have to sink $20-30K to replace the batteries....

That may be true. But Tesla batteries seem to be holding up quite well. So if an original battery pack lasts for 10-20 years, which seems entirely possible, then it is expected that the car would have lost most of its original value via depreciation anyway. It's also likely that replacement battery pack prices will drop. Further, Tesla battery packs are warranted for eight years, which establishes a floor on their service life.

Although I think Tesla is a real potential player in the future EV scenario...

More than that, they are a major player today. In 2016 so far, the Model S is the top selling plug-in car in the US.

...no one who works for a living (in their right minds) should ever consider buying a new Tesla because it is still a "futuristic experiment". Anything can happen to Tesla. In my automotive experience, a reasonable person anywhere in the world needs to buy the most common, best quality, highest production model car they can get... Parts and repairs cost will be the easiest to get, lowest in price (aftermarket), and overall cost of ownership will be the lowest. I bought a Leaf because I feel they will be reasonably supported long-term by Nissan.. Tesla is not a car for a normal American.

As a general rule, that is solid, conservative advice. At the same time, a great many people do not choose to optimize personal economics in their vehicle purchasing decisions. Middle class people, including "normal Americans", are going to continue buying their "toys", whether that's luxury cars, giant pickups, RVs, boats, etc. I think it is genius that Tesla produces comparatively eco-friendly vehicles that create desire. Whatever happens business-wise, I don't see Tesla disappearing completely, after having sold hundreds of thousands of copies of such great products.

As for Nissan's support, I'm happy that our LEAF has needed very few repairs. At the same time, our battery capacity loss has been unacceptable, yet it's still not covered under warranty. Losing about 25% capacity after five years is not bad compared to other LEAFs, but it's certainly nothing for Nissan to be proud of. Of course, our expectations were higher because we spent a net of about $25K (after incentives) on our LEAF back in 2011, a sizable fraction of what our used Tesla ended up costing. If we had paid $7K for a used LEAF, we probably wouldn't be so disappointed about battery capacity loss.

 

[powersurge]

Hello Abasile,

You sound like you were one of the brave ones that bought the Leaf when it was a new product. I am curious about your car. Since you have a 5 year old car, what is the mileage, # of bars, and possibly some stats on Leafspy? I would like to have an idea of what to expect with my 2015, which currently has 25K miles and 99%SOH... Thank you in advance.

 

[Reddy]

I'll give you my answer, YMMV. I just crossed 35,000 mi this week on my 2011. I'm a low mileage, in-town driver who will never really get full mileage out of driving the Leaf. I'm around 48.5 Ahr 74% SOH, 53.7% Hx and 10 bars. Realistically I can drive around 50 mi without thinking, maybe still squeak out 70 mi in the summer if needed. In the winter, with the energy-hogging heater it might be 35-40 mi. The real killer is very low temps (below 10 F) and multiple, short trips, like 2-5 mi each. However, our metroplex is relatively small (less than 35 mi across an back), so I'm still fine for another 5 years. Unfortunately, I was hoping for at least 20 years, given my low mileage needs (20 x 7000 = 140,000 mi).

 

[powersurge]

Thank you Reddy. So it sounds that you CAN expect to get about 10 years on the original battery if your mileage needs are shorter trips. I drive about 12K miles per year, and with those numbers, I could hope to get 120K miles before "biting the big one". Also, in 10 years, the battery expense would only be $500/ year... (For the price of a cup of coffee per day!! - As they say).

 

[abasile]

You sound like you were one of the brave ones that bought the Leaf when it was a new product. I am curious about your car. Since you have a 5 year old car, what is the mileage, # of bars, and possibly some stats on Leafspy? I would like to have an idea of what to expect with my 2015, which currently has 25K miles and 99%SOH... Thank you in advance.

I think our car was roughly the 500th LEAF delivered in the US. It's a bit over 66,000 miles with 10/12 capacity bars and about 75% SOH. We were seeing faster battery degradation when I was using it for a commute down 5000' into the Valley, which certainly raised the average temperature of the battery. Now that we basically keep it in our cool mountain environment all of the time, using it only for short drives, the battery capacity loss seems to be pretty slow.

 

[kunrj]

I am considering leasing a 2017 Nissan Leaf SV but I have a concern. I live in NJ and the winter here could be very cold (sometimes below 0F but often below 32F). My commute is about 74 miles total and I normally go in 3 times a week. I know that the range is rated about 107 miles but how is it in the winter? When I get to work, there is no garage so the car is going to be parked in the cold weather. When I am home, the car will be parked in my garage. I normally drive about 10 minutes on local roads before I get on a highway to get to work for about 30 minutes. Is this workable? What if there is a traffic accident on the highway and I get stuck for 30 minutes to an hour?

Thanks,

RJ

 

[LeftieBiker]

People with the 30kwh SV are reporting about 90 miles of Winter range. This isn't at temps where the heat pump doesn't work enough to matter, though, so you might be looking at measures like using a heated blanket for part of the trip instead of the cabin heater in frigid temps. Preheating at home while connected to L-2 charging would help. What speeds do you drive at? If you can keep it to 60MPH in the worst cold, that might well be enough. Then there's the question of capacity loss over the years. That makes leasing the better choice.

 

[kunrj]

Currently, when I drive to work with my current car, I drive about 40-50 mph for the first 10 minutes and about 65 mph on the highway. Does driving around 60 mph make a big difference? When you said using a heated blanket in the frigid temperature, are you talking about when it is below 0F or when it is below the freezing point? I am planning to keep my current car around so when it is too cold, I can always drive it instead. Thanks.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Driving 60MPH vs 65 or 70 makes a substantial difference. I was talking about using the blanket when the temps get too cold for the heat pump to help - around 15F and colder. The heat pump helps a lot less below about 26F, and very little below 15. You don't have to try using zero cabin heat. Just set it to Floor or Floor + Defrost, set the temp to 75 or 80F, and set the fan to the lowest setting. The put the blanket over your lap and tuck it around your legs if necessary.

 

[kunrj]

Thank you for providing some useful information. In terms of when getting stuck on a highway, what would you suggest? This does not happen a lot but it does happen and there were times when it was like stop and go for up to an hour. Would this cause the Leaf to loose a lot of energy?

 

[jjeff]

No the Leaf is ideal for stopped traffic, uses very little charge. Well I guess unless your using the heat a lot, but I'd do as Leftie suggested leave the fan speed at one or two and a moderate(75??F) setting. If your windows don't fog/frost up you can play with recirc or partial recirc(hold down recirc button until it blinks) although no form of recirc is possible while any form of defrost is engaged(full or partial defrost).

 

[LeftieBiker]

Yes, when the car is stopped it's just the heater eating up juice. The partial recirculate trick will work on the floor only setting, as some air still makes it to the windshield. You may have to raise the fan speed one notch if you do that.