Volt Vs. Leaf practical range comparison

[adric22]

After owning a Volt and a Leaf for a few months now, something occurred to me.

Sure, we all know that the Leaf has approximately twice the EV range of the Volt.

However, I realized recently that in standard practice, it is actually almost the same range. Here is my reasoning. I'm curious how many people will agree with my thoughts on this.

The Volt's EPA rating on the 2012 model is 35 miles. However, we get nearly 40 miles all of the time, even with the A/C running while going down the highway and my wife's lead foot. And the 2013 Volt has an EPA rating of 38 miles. So for the purposes of this I'm going to say the Volt gets 40 miles. Many Volt drivers on the gm-volt.com website report getting up to 50 miles and a few even say 60 miles.

As with the Leaf, I recognize it is possible to get 100 or more miles, as many Leaf owners have done. However, it is my experience that driving the Leaf in the same way we drive the Volt, we will likely yield closer to the EPA rating of 76 miles.

So for the purpose of this comparison I'm going to use the 76 figure vs. 40 for the Volt. This is not scientific, this is just based on my experience. Obviously some people may say this is unfair.

Since I've now become worried about the heat I've started charging to 80% a few months ago. That means my range is now reduced to 60 miles. While I recognize that I can still charge to 100% on those days I need it, 99% of the time, I'm going to be charging to 80%.

Here's the real kicker. Since I do not like to risk not making it home, I always stay within a healthy margin away from LBW. The lowest estimated range I've ever seen on my Leaf was 17 miles. That is a healthy buffer I like to keep. I would be willing to bet most Leaf drivers probably have a margin of 10 to 20 miles that they like to stay away from being dead on the side of the road. So what that means is practice is 20 miles of range that never gets used. It is there only as a safety net. So now my 60 miles drops to 40 miles.

In the Volt, we do not need to worry about charging to 80% since the battery design already uses much less of the total capacity than the Leaf's battery, plus it has TMS. Also we do not need to worry about keeping that safety margin because we have the ICE to fall back on as a safety net. In the Volt it is not uncommon for us to use close to the entire 40 miles during the day and occasionally we switch to gas for a mile or two.

So my point is that in practice, we get 40 miles EV range in the Volt, and also in practice we get 40 miles EV range in the Leaf.

This was not meant to be a Leaf-bashing post, as I do love my Leaf and have no regrets about buying it. But I am starting to see more of the appeal and practicality for a vehicle like the Volt especially for the mainstream consumer.

 

[grommet]

My personal "brain dead" comfort range is 70 miles on a full charge, but I do go to San Francisco and back (including much freeway) which is a little longer. FYI: There is no harm charging to 100%... you just shouldn't leave it at 100% all day and beyond. I charge to 100% the day when I'll use it, often just hours before I leave.

When I hit low battery warning, I still have ~10 miles left. That's plenty of buffer.

Bonus for me: On my way back from S.F. and I need to extend my day... I take a break at VW ERL, and get back to 80% in about 24 minutes via their Blink DC Charger.

Of course, this all assumes my battery capacity isn't crushed earlier than expected even in my overall mild climate... which, at this point, I'm not too confident about. I might be Volt EV-only hypermiling range in one more year. ;-)

Anyway, an EV is not a "mainstream" car and probably won't be for a very long time. Hybrids (and Plug-in Hybrids), obviously, are far more accepted... but even those are a fraction of the cars sold. Thankfully, we'll see obvious growth here sooner than later.

 

[derkraut]

After owning a Volt and a Leaf for a few months now, something occurred to me.

Sure, we all know that the Leaf has approximately twice the EV range of the Volt.

However, I realized recently that in standard practice, it is actually almost the same range. Here is my reasoning. I'm curious how many people will agree with my thoughts on this.

The Volt's EPA rating on the 2012 model is 35 miles. However, we get nearly 40 miles all of the time, even with the A/C running while going down the highway and my wife's lead foot. And the 2013 Volt has an EPA rating of 38 miles. So for the purposes of this I'm going to say the Volt gets 40 miles. Many Volt drivers on the gm-volt.com website report getting up to 50 miles and a few even say 60 miles.

As with the Leaf, I recognize it is possible to get 100 or more miles, as many Leaf owners have done. However, it is my experience that driving the Leaf in the same way we drive the Volt, we will likely yield closer to the EPA rating of 76 miles.

So for the purpose of this comparison I'm going to use the 76 figure vs. 40 for the Volt. This is not scientific, this is just based on my experience. Obviously some people may say this is unfair.

Since I've now become worried about the heat I've started charging to 80% a few months ago. That means my range is now reduced to 60 miles. While I recognize that I can still charge to 100% on those days I need it, 99% of the time, I'm going to be charging to 80%.

Here's the real kicker. Since I do not like to risk not making it home, I always stay within a healthy margin away from LBW. The lowest estimated range I've ever seen on my Leaf was 17 miles. That is a healthy buffer I like to keep. I would be willing to bet most Leaf drivers probably have a margin of 10 to 20 miles that they like to stay away from being dead on the side of the road. So what that means is practice is 20 miles of range that never gets used. It is there only as a safety net. So now my 60 miles drops to 40 miles.

In the Volt, we do not need to worry about charging to 80% since the battery design already uses much less of the total capacity than the Leaf's battery, plus it has TMS. Also we do not need to worry about keeping that safety margin because we have the ICE to fall back on as a safety net. In the Volt it is not uncommon for us to use close to the entire 40 miles during the day and occasionally we switch to gas for a mile or two.

So my point is that in practice, we get 40 miles EV range in the Volt, and also in practice we get 40 miles EV range in the Leaf.

This was not meant to be a Leaf-bashing post, as I do love my Leaf and have no regrets about buying it. But I am starting to see more of the appeal and practicality for a vehicle like the Volt especially for the mainstream consumer.

I think you've made some good points here, adric22. When I retire my present "long range" car (2006 Prius), I'll be looking closely at the Volt. But, my wife is absolutely "attached" to the Leaf for her local transportation.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

for my practical purposes, i will say the LEAF has 85 miles of range and the Volt has 45 which i am sure i can get.

the Volt wont work for anything above that 45 miles and i could probably stretch it to 50 but found i have no trips i regularly make that are between those numbers so it wouldnt matter.

for me; the LEAF has double the range and its a good thing because i use it frequently, but more important is my ability to add another 35-40 miles of range in a 10-12 minute QC session. without a QC option, ANY car is not an option to me

 

[IBELEAF]

I completely agree with you on Volt estimates, it actually delivering promised range of 38-40 miles with hills, freeway driving even above 60 and AC on. I have yet to see what the range will be during winter time. With Leaf getting 70 miles I would have to drive very conservative, realistically it was 60 miles that I got out of it in the same driving conditions and style. Although, my comfortable range has been around 55 miles and in winter 45 miles. Another thing was that I was obsessed with 80% charging to extend battery life, so I was getting even less range out of battery and with leased Volt I don't care.

Btw, did I mention I love "one pedal driving" in Volt

 

[gsleaf]

I would have considered the Volt as 40 miles of all electric range would have met the majority of my in-town driving needs. The reason I'm not choosing a volt is that the front seat was pretty cramped for me since I'm fairly tall. I also didn't care for the Volt's less roomy interior and lack of a middle seat in the back.

Right now I'm holding out for the 2013 Leaf. I'm in a cold enough area that the rumored improved heater makes it worth the wait.

 

[mynameisjim]

I think your estimates are reasonable and your conclusion/opinion is also reasonable. My hangup on the Volt is that it feels like a waste to me to carry around a gas engine and all of its associated equipment "just in case". 98% of our family's driving occurs within the Volt's and LEAF's range, so I'd rather leave the engine behind.

 

[IBELEAF]

I regret dismissing Volt initially for the same reasons because of the interior room and lack of middle seat, but the reality is that I never had 5 people in Leaf, at the most 4 people and that was for a test drive. I can fit the family of 3 in there just fine for most trips, although I do consider getting some roof storage for out of town drives. Volt may lack in space a bit, but it does make up in so many little things that make driving more pleasurable experience. Also, I think 40 miles on electric range for Volt in my area is ideal choice, unlike 11 miles PiP or 20 miles on C-Max.

 

[smkettner]

I always stay within a healthy margin away from LBW. The lowest estimated range I've ever seen on my Leaf was 17 miles.

Yes the Volt is able to utilize the entire battery capacity every time because you have the gas engine.
With your very conservative nature on driving reserve, Volt might be a better fit for you.

I have no qualms about leaving for a 10 mile round trip journey when my LEAF says 12 miles range.
Yesterday I drove about 75 miles and arrived home with 4 on the GOM, perfect day. And if DW needed something at the grocery I would have hopped back in without additional charge to get what was needed. For many the Volt will allow them to use more electric range.

 

[Reddy]

I'm sure you'll get lots of agreement from the Volt owners on this forum. I agree with your logic as well. However, I think it is personality/situation dependent. People with kids, hills, freeways, lack of charging stations, (and now heat) etc. will certainly be more cautious. Yes, having the gas engine eliminates the possibility of not making a distance (thus may even remove any need for planning). I still "plan" my trips because I'm keeping the battery charged between 30% and 50% SOC most of the time. I plan to keep the Leaf for 20+ yr (the current age of my "new" vehicle). However, again, my situation is much different as I only use L1, don't normally travel more than 20 mi, no unexpected driving needs, no real hills, etc. The Leaf (and Volt) are overkill for my driving. I would rather have a little EV/NEV pickup which must be capable of going 45 mph since the only roads to Home Depot require that speed.

Reddy

 

[Volusiano]

My main hang-up on the Volt is the price. I would have considered it more seriously if its price had been more comparable to the LEAF.

Sure, it has less interior space, an ICE (undesirable), but if the ICE means no range anxiety and the 40 mile-range covers most driving needs, and the ICE also means it can be a single owned car, then it'd be a better option for most people.

But the LEAF is already priced out of range for many people, so I can't justify the Volt's price in light of the more attractive LEAF price (at least the 2011 LEAF price anyway).

Now if we're comparing the Ford Focus EV vs the Volt, which don't have as big of a price gap, I think I'd go for the Volt.

In light of the 2-3 capacity bar loss on the LEAF in Phoenix which renders the LEAF's effective range down to more like around 40-50 miles at 80% SOC, it's looking like the Volt with its TMS is a much better choice for hot weather areas anyway.

 

[TonyWilliams]

One big issue with Volt, besides smaller interior volume, and smelly gas stations, is anything over 40 miles on electricity is going to be very painful with 3.3 kW charger and no QC option.

I drive 50-100 miles on any given day, which is a struggle with no QC available and 3.3 charger, but Volt couldn't do this without burning gas.

If they built a pure EV Volt, with real 80-100 mile range, and 6.6kW (or preferably much bigger with an overnight 3.3 mode) charger with QC option, I would seriously consider it against a future BMW i3.

 

[adric22]

But the LEAF is already priced out of range for many people, so I can't justify the Volt's price in light of the more attractive LEAF price (at least the 2011 LEAF price).

That was the main driving force behind me going with the Leaf initially as well. The irony is now that we are leasing both car, the payment on the volt is about $100 cheaper per month than the Leaf. Which means, financially speaking I'd be better off with two Volts than with the Leaf and the Volt. Now once the lease is up, that's a different story. The residual on the Volt is a good bit higher.

 

[ericsf]

Good reasonning which can be explained by numbers: The LEAF's pack has a nominal capacity of 24KWh. The Volt has 16KWh.

Battery degradation anxiety = Charge to 80%
Range anxiety = Stay away from LBW (never go to less than 1 bar remaining which means keep 20% charge buffer).

24 x 0.8 x 0.8 = 14KWh which is less than the Volt.

But IMO, comparing the Volt and the LEAF are like comparing apple and oranges. It can be fun but it's pointless. The Prius PHEV and the Volt or the LEAF and the Coda or Tesla fine... but once it has a gas tank, it's no longer a BEV.

 

[IBELEAF]

My main hang-up on the Volt is the price. I would have considered it more seriously if its price had been more comparable to the LEAF.

I had the same misconception that Volt was just way more expensive, when I was comparing Leaf SL to fully loaded Volt. When I saw one in persona and drove one I ended up getting a base model for less then what Leaf SL model costs today and base Volt is actually way more premium (minus navigation and backup camera) then Leaf SL.

 

[evnow]

So my point is that in practice, we get 40 miles EV range in the Volt, and also in practice we get 40 miles EV range in the Leaf.

Not sure what you mean by "in practice" - I've never got 40 miles in Leaf even on cold days and charged to 80%.

Yes, you can drive in such a way as to get 40 miles - but pls drive Volt the exact same way and show me get 40 miles. Let us start with 20 degrees F, heater full blast and highway speed.

 

[DANandNAN]

After owning a Volt and a Leaf for a few months now, something occurred to me.

Sure, we all know that the Leaf has approximately twice the EV range of the Volt.

However, I realized recently that in standard practice, it is actually almost the same range. Here is my reasoning. I'm curious how many people will agree with my thoughts on this.

The Volt's EPA rating on the 2012 model is 35 miles. However, we get nearly 40 miles all of the time, even with the A/C running while going down the highway and my wife's lead foot. And the 2013 Volt has an EPA rating of 38 miles. So for the purposes of this I'm going to say the Volt gets 40 miles. Many Volt drivers on the gm-volt.com website report getting up to 50 miles and a few even say 60 miles.

As with the Leaf, I recognize it is possible to get 100 or more miles, as many Leaf owners have done. However, it is my experience that driving the Leaf in the same way we drive the Volt, we will likely yield closer to the EPA rating of 76 miles.

So for the purpose of this comparison I'm going to use the 76 figure vs. 40 for the Volt. This is not scientific, this is just based on my experience. Obviously some people may say this is unfair.

Since I've now become worried about the heat I've started charging to 80% a few months ago. That means my range is now reduced to 60 miles. While I recognize that I can still charge to 100% on those days I need it, 99% of the time, I'm going to be charging to 80%.

Here's the real kicker. Since I do not like to risk not making it home, I always stay within a healthy margin away from LBW. The lowest estimated range I've ever seen on my Leaf was 17 miles. That is a healthy buffer I like to keep. I would be willing to bet most Leaf drivers probably have a margin of 10 to 20 miles that they like to stay away from being dead on the side of the road. So what that means is practice is 20 miles of range that never gets used. It is there only as a safety net. So now my 60 miles drops to 40 miles.

In the Volt, we do not need to worry about charging to 80% since the battery design already uses much less of the total capacity than the Leaf's battery, plus it has TMS. Also we do not need to worry about keeping that safety margin because we have the ICE to fall back on as a safety net. In the Volt it is not uncommon for us to use close to the entire 40 miles during the day and occasionally we switch to gas for a mile or two.

So my point is that in practice, we get 40 miles EV range in the Volt, and also in practice we get 40 miles EV range in the Leaf.

This was not meant to be a Leaf-bashing post, as I do love my Leaf and have no regrets about buying it. But I am starting to see more of the appeal and practicality for a vehicle like the Volt especially for the mainstream consumer.

This is what I've been saying for a long time. The range isn't that different and the Volt's payoff is not having to stop when you run out of electricity. I still want a Leaf/FFE or non-RLBEV, but a huge factor in that is the 6.6(+) charger - not just the extra 20 miles.

The smelly gas stations comment made me chuckle. We get 40-42MPG and many folks only fuel up 3-4 times per year! We'll fuel up more often, but only 1 gallon every once in a while. The tight fit? Only the Leaf's headroom is better:

Here is the table comparing dimensions and some other specs of all EVs/PHEVs in the US market (or that will be). I'll add more info as they are released.

Link : https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/eGOJGuDrgSBKFRP4siZBFWwLLtBwKBlwVsw7cwc2RXY?feat=directlink" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Last updated : 7/27/12

That said, I'd rather have a bit more headroom but get that it was an aerodynamic choice. We have a giant SUV and had a Cute-Ute and very rarely carried more than 4 people and it's not like 3 grown adults will "fit" in the Leaf. Also, pricing isn't that different, especially going with the SL because it includes the elusive L3 port. And, yes, the Volts range drops, just like the Leaf's in the winter, but again, the Volt carries it's backup plan - no need to shut off the heaters & rely on blankets to make a commute.

I'll also disagree with the post about the Volt's on-board generator disqualifying it as an EV" because the Volt is EV only for the first 40 miles (you cannot engage the engine unlike the PiP), The difference between the Volt & Leaf is the Volt carries it's back-up plan with it. It's EV, it's just not a RLBEV.

The Volt & Leaf are very similar, and a Volt or Leaf-ICE combo would work well for most.

 

[adric22]

Not sure what you mean by "in practice" - I've never got 40 miles in Leaf even on cold days and charged to 80%.

Probably don't know what I mean because you didn't read the whole post and skipped to the bottom.

 

[GRA]

So my point is that in practice, we get 40 miles EV range in the Volt, and also in practice we get 40 miles EV range in the Leaf.

Not sure what you mean by "in practice" - I've never got 40 miles in Leaf even on cold days and charged to 80%.

Yes, you can drive in such a way as to get 40 miles - but pls drive Volt the exact same way and show me get 40 miles. Let us start with 20 degrees F, heater full blast and highway speed.

After the battery ages, I wouldn't be surprised if the Volt does better than the Leaf in those conditions; it would certainly be close. Its battery is thermally managed so won't lose anywhere near as much capacity in the winter as the Leaf, and is designed to maintain its nominal usable capacity for years by using some of the original upper-end off-limits capacity. IIRR the Volt has a lower Cd, and I don't remember how the frontal areas match up.

 

[dgpcolorado]

adric22, I don't buy it. I guess for someone with extreme range anxiety like yours, the Volt is a better choice. It is also a better way to go for most one car households. But your "practical range comparison" isn't remotely fair IMO.

My grocery shopping trips are 65-70 miles and the LEAF makes them with plenty of electrons to spare; I don't even bother to charge to 100% in the summer. Could the Volt really do that trip all on electricity? That is the point of driving electric, in my view. And I already have a backup ICE car that fills a niche that the Volt can't touch (4WD-low range, high ground clearance). For me the Volt would be just another expensive ICE car with the additional complexity of being a hybrid. Most LEAF owners have a second, usually older, ICE car for the occasional longer trip. For those who are wealthy enough to be able to afford two new cars a Volt and a LEAF makes for an interesting combo. But for those who can only stretch to afford one new car a LEAF plus older ICE as a backup works well, if daily mileage isn't too far outside the norm. Assuming that one doesn't suffer from extreme range anxiety.