Using clone ELM327 Bluetooth OBDII adapter with Leaf

[garygid]

The 2013 dash value is State of Fullness, not State of Charge, so they
should NEVER match after a full charge, when SOF should be about 100%
while SOC should be around 95%.

NEITHER of these indicate how much fuel you have on board, since the size of
the fuel tank can vary. A 100% full reading on the dash, with a battery pack
that is down to 80% capacity, results in only 80% GIDs percentage (fuel).
thus, the dash SOF and the SOC numbers are basically useless
for estimating range over the long term.

The dash number and gauge is tank FULLNESS, not a "fuel" gauge.
However, even GIDs are just an estimate,especially at the low end.

When the battery is hot, the car's BMS can decide to use less of the
battery capacity, in an attempt to reduce or slow the detrimental
aging of the battery at higher temperatures, especially when aggravated
by near-full SOC.

So, in the hot temperatures, the battery can "appear"
as if it has lost capacity... because the BMS has decided it is prudent
to use less of the battery capacity for the hot season. (I believe)

 

[KJD]

Thanks for the explanation Gary. That helps clear things up.

Now what is the Health % number on the first screen ?

 

[TickTock]

This is an important question, and I wonder what you would think of having a "Basic" and "Advanced" mode for your app. I love all the detail, but my wife, who is using it also, really only wants DTE, and not really much else. What about a screen that has DTE in big font, a "Hiway" or "Min" value to the left in smaller font (corresponding to 3.5 mi/kwh) and a "city/careful" mileage to the right corresponding to 5.5 mi/kwh.

Good idea.

Screen 3 could become the basic mode and screen 4 the advanced mode. That isn't to far from reality as it stands

Great minds think alike

You mean something... like this! For the record, I got the idea from noAZgas. Also, instead of fixed values, the min and max DTE is actually based on history. I keep track of your best and worst trip efficiency and show what you can do on your worse day (green), your best day (red), and based on the last 10 minutes of driving (yellow).

 

[TickTock]

Thanks for the explanation Gary. That helps clear things up.

Now what is the Health % number on the first screen ?

Noone knows (or if they do they haven't disclosed it). It is clear that it is *not* based on battery capacity, though.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=11676&start=83

 

[lukati]

You mean something... like this! For the record, I got the idea from noAZgas. Also, instead of fixed values, the min and max DTE is actually based on history. I keep track of your best and worst trip efficiency and show what you can do on your worse day (green), your best day (red), and based on the last 10 minutes of driving (yellow).

Wow! This is exactly what I have always thought to be the most informative metric: best, worst, current. The only thing better would be to let the worst and best values glide over long periods of time (maybe a month or two) to account for seasonal variability.

 

[Turbo3]

Ok guys, back to the app.

There is a small bug in Alt GIDs selection. I seem to have put in only half the code to support it. When you check the Alt GIDs checkbox it is in affect only until you exit the app. If you exit and restart the app the checkbox is still checked but the app is using the original request to get GIDs that does not include the amps information. This means you will see 0.0A all the time.

Until I release the next version you need to toggle the checkbox off and on and not leave the app to get alt GIDs and amp information.

 

[TickTock]

You mean something... like this! For the record, I got the idea from noAZgas. Also, instead of fixed values, the min and max DTE is actually based on history. I keep track of your best and worst trip efficiency and show what you can do on your worse day (green), your best day (red), and based on the last 10 minutes of driving (yellow).

Wow! This is exactly what I have always thought to be the most informative metric: best, worst, current. The only thing better would be to let the worst and best values glide over long periods of time (maybe a month or two) to account for seasonal variability.

Sorry Jim, wasn't trying to hijack your thread - just offering as an example. lukati, as far as seasonal variation goes, that is good input. Since Jim figured out how to read the ambient temperature, I think we can add the seasonal variation based on that. IOW, keep track of not just efficiency, but also the temperature at which you got that efficiency and then use the current temperature to decide which max and min efficiency to use. Say, a lookup table with rows at 10 degree intervals. This will also enable it to better take your heater/ac use into account.

 

[LEAFfan]

The 2013 dash value is State of Fullness, not State of Charge, so they
should NEVER match after a full charge, when SOF should be about 100%
while SOC should be around 95%.

NEITHER of these indicate how much fuel you have on board, since the size of
the fuel tank can vary. A 100% full reading on the dash, with a battery pack
that is down to 80% capacity, results in only 80% GIDs percentage (fuel).
thus, the dash SOF and the SOC numbers are basically useless
for estimating range over the long term.

The dash number and gauge is tank FULLNESS, not a "fuel" gauge.
However, even GIDs are just an estimate,especially at the low end.

When the battery is hot, the car's BMS can decide to use less of the
battery capacity, in an attempt to reduce or slow the detrimental
aging of the battery at higher temperatures, especially when aggravated
by near-full SOC.

So, in the hot temperatures, the battery can "appear"
as if it has lost capacity... because the BMS has decided it is prudent
to use less of the battery capacity for the hot season. (I believe)

I hope u r right Gary because every time I charge (garage stays 95+ all night), my AHs, GIDs, and kW h keep dropping. My AH is 58.9, 256 GIDs, 20.5kW hs.

 

[kg4bec]

Hmm, my post seems to have dissappeared. :-/
I had a question for Jim. I'm running v0.26h (beta) on a galaxy S phone and talking to my 2012 LEAF. The question relates to startup, or more precisely when the battery app connects to the LEAF. The phone buzzes 7 times with long buzzes. Is this by design? It has done this since I first downloaded the battery app and I've always meant to ask about it.
If it's better to push this to a private email, I'm more than happy to do that, just let me know.

Cheers, Bert

 

[Turbo3]

The only beeping the app does is for the Tire pressure alarm.

You can go into Settings/Tire Pressure panel and uncheck "Sound Alarm" and see it that stops the beeps. If so then just set the PSI to values to stop the alarm or add air to tires.

 

[kg4bec]

Hi Jim,

Actually, it's not the beeping I'm worried about, as I can silence those no problem. You know how you can set up the phone to vibrate instead of ring? That's the buzzer/vibrator I'm talking about. So the phone vibrates or buzzes 7 times when the app tries to connect to the LEAF, regardless of whether I have the phone silenced or not. I believe it does it again whenever it loses connection to the LEAF and has to reconnect, but I would need to confirm that.

Regards, Bert

 

[Ottar]

Htc One

 

[edatoakrun]

...When the battery is hot, the car's BMS can decide to use less of the
battery capacity, in an attempt to reduce or slow the detrimental
aging of the battery at higher temperatures, especially when aggravated
by near-full SOC.

So, in the hot temperatures, the battery can "appear"
as if it has lost capacity... because the BMS has decided it is prudent
to use less of the battery capacity for the hot season. (I believe)

And you believe this Gary... because?

It would, IMO, probably have been a very good Idea for Nissan to have limited the "100%" charge setting to a lower SOC, at very high temperatures.

And there does seem to be significant variation in the kWh accepted in a charge to "100%" SOC, so there is no reason to accept the available battery capacity of any LEAF as a direct measurement of "battery degradation".

However, I have never been able to observe any actual (rather than indicated by gid meter or battery App data) limitation in the kWh accepted by my LEAF at "100%" charge, due to higher battery temperatures, or for any other causes.

Nor have I seen a credible report from anyone else, that proves this BMS behavior.

Not to suggest active management of the "100%" charge level isn't occurring, but just to ask, what observations support this position?

I recall that at the height of the hysteria last Summer caused by rapidly falling gid numbers, being criticized from some of the self-designated LEAF experts on this forum (edit. Not referring to Gary, BTW) for pointing out that we did not know whether or not the LEAF's BMS is actively limiting the maximum SOC at "100%".

So, is the additional data from the battery App why many now seem to be convinced that this is occurring?

If so, why would you consider that a reliable means to observe this BMS behavior?

 

[TomT]

I had an interesting experience coming home from work last night... I had about 135 Gids left of my 80% charge - not very high or low in other words - and the bat temp was showing about 75 degrees. Yet, I only showed two circles of available regen for most of the 22 mile trip... I was showing 61 Gids, 78 degrees, and an imbalance of 31 Mv when I got home... At that point I was finally up to three circles of regen. Odd.

...When the battery is hot, the car's BMS can decide to use less of the
battery capacity, in an attempt to reduce or slow the detrimental
aging of the battery at higher temperatures, especially when aggravated
by near-full SOC.

 

[Turbo3]

Htc One

Can you verify the Andriod Font Size that is selected?

Go the Android Settings (not the app settings) and select "Display". The "Font size" should be set to "Normal".

 

[JPWhite]

...When the battery is hot, the car's BMS can decide to use less of the
battery capacity, in an attempt to reduce or slow the detrimental
aging of the battery at higher temperatures, especially when aggravated
by near-full SOC.

So, in the hot temperatures, the battery can "appear"
as if it has lost capacity... because the BMS has decided it is prudent
to use less of the battery capacity for the hot season. (I believe)

And you believe this Gary... because?

Nor have I seen a credible report from anyone else, that proves this BMS behavior.

Not to suggest active management of the "100%" charge level isn't occurring, but just to ask, what observations support this position?

Now that the 2011/12 software update is out, there is data from Ticktock to suggest that the BMS is behaving in this way after all.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=11676&p=314750#p314660

I recall this being stated by Nissan after they examined the cars at Casa Grande. When I suggested in these forums that the new software update they released this year may help restore lost capacity the howls went up like a pack of Hyenas. I'm not sure why so many here are in denial that the BMS software is partly to blame for heat related loss of range.

I'm getting the software update done today and will compare my results to TickTocks and see if I get any summer capacity loss back after the software upgrade. Since I am a recent 1st bar loser, I'm interested to see if I will get that back or not.

I'll report back here in due course using the battery app stats

 

[LEAFfan]

...When the battery is hot, the car's BMS can decide to use less of the
battery capacity, in an attempt to reduce or slow the detrimental
aging of the battery at higher temperatures, especially when aggravated
by near-full SOC.

So, in the hot temperatures, the battery can "appear"
as if it has lost capacity... because the BMS has decided it is prudent
to use less of the battery capacity for the hot season. (I believe)

And you believe this Gary... because?

Nor have I seen a credible report from anyone else, that proves this BMS behavior.

Not to suggest active management of the "100%" charge level isn't occurring, but just to ask, what observations support this position?

.
Now that the 2011/12 software update is out, there is data from Ticktock to suggest that the BMS is behaving in this way after all.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=11676&p=314750#p314660

I recall this being stated by Nissan after they examined the cars at Casa Grande. When I suggested in these forums that the new software update they released this year may help restore lost capacity the howls went up like a pack of Hyenas. I'm not sure why so many here are in denial that the BMS software is partly to blame for heat related loss of range.

I'm getting the software update done today and will compare my results to TickTocks and see if I get any summer capacity loss back after the software upgrade. Since I am a recent 1st bar loser, I'm interested to see if I will get that back or not.
I'll report back here in due course using the battery app stats

But even if you do get it back, according to several posters starting with Tom, the pack will return to previous levels in a fairly short time.

 

[Ottar]

Htc One

Can you verify the Andriod Font Size that is selected?

Go the Android Settings (not the app settings) and select "Display". The "Font size" should be set to "Normal".

Ty,i stand corrected,was on big ofc.

 

[edatoakrun]

...Not to suggest active management of the "100%" charge level isn't occurring, but just to ask, what observations support this position?

Now that the 2011/12 software update is out, there is data from Ticktock to suggest that the BMS is behaving in this way after all.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=11676&p=314750#p314660

...I'm getting the software update done today and will compare my results to TickTocks and see if I get any summer capacity loss back after the software upgrade. Since I am a recent 1st bar loser, I'm interested to see if I will get that back or not.

I'll report back here in due course using the battery app stats

LEAFfan

But even if you do get it back, according to several posters starting with Tom, the pack will return to previous levels in a fairly short time.

I think both of you may be confusing two separate questions:

the first question is whether the update may increase the available battery capacity by changing the actual "100% SOC level (which Nissan has denied) or whether it just reduces the level of "gauge error" being picked up by the battery App.

And the second question is whether the LEAF's BMS actively manages the "100%" charge level (by temperature or other parameters) either before or after the update.

The only way to answer both these questions, IMO, is to monitor your "100%" charge capacity both before and after the update using some method independent from the battery App data, such as recharge capacity measurements or accurate range tests.

Please post your observations on an appropriate thread, and my apologies (especially to Jim) for participating in this off-topic discussion here.

 

[Turbo3]

Htc One

Can you verify the Andriod Font Size that is selected?

Go the Android Settings (not the app settings) and select "Display". The "Font size" should be set to "Normal".

Ty,i stand corrected,was on big ofc.

Can you post a picture of screen 4 with it set to normal? I would like to see where the lower red pointer is positioned.

Jim