U.S. driving changes have little effect on oil, gas prices

[TRONZ]

Maybe they will finally approve the keystone pipeline and get these folks some relief at the pump.

It's not about pipelines. Its about the fact that all the "good" oil is already gone. Why else would crazy people now be fighting over bottom of the barrel crap like tar sands and oil shale?!? Paying for the oil industries end of life boondoggles is not my idea of fiscal responsibility or common sense. The smart money is already moving on.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Maybe they will finally approve the keystone pipeline and get these folks some relief at the pump.

It's not about pipelines. Its about the fact that all the "good" oil is already gone. Why else would crazy people now be fighting over bottom of the barrel crap like tar sands and oil shale?!? Paying for the oil industries end of life boondoggles is not my idea of fiscal responsibility or common sense. The smart money is already moving on.

I actually get that; my pipeline comment was sarcasm. As DaveinOly points out, and I think few realize, is all this talk about X billion barrels here and Y billion barrels there overlooks details like "here" and "there" are not nearly as easy to get the oil out of as places from the past.

Maybe someone will start a rumor that gas made from tar sands is bad for your engine

 

[Herm]

if oil prices remain high it will make financial sense to build gas-to-liquids conversion plants in Louisiana.. both SASOL and Shell are looking into it.. at current gas prices that synthetic oil would be about $11 a barrel.. the only hitch is that each refinery costs $10 billion, you can almost buy an aircraft carrier for that kind of money. Oil has to remain above $60 a barrel for tar sands and CTL/GTL to be profitable, so as long as we have coal and NG gas will remain at about todays prices.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2012/04/asp-20120426.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Alkaline surfactant polymer flooding shown to improve recovery in very mature oilfield by more than 300%

"The US Department of Energy (DOE) announced that the use of an alkaline surfactant polymer (ASP) flooding technique has successfully improved oil recovery at a 106-year old Illinois field by more than 300%. This method of extraction could help pull as many as 130 million additional barrels of oil from the depleted field, which is past peak production using traditional drilling."

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

This method of extraction could help pull as many as 130 million additional barrels of oil from the depleted field, which is past peak production using traditional drilling."

This is what I was talking about. People read reports like this and say, "See there's plenty of oil if the environmentalists would just get out of the way!"
But don't we use like 20 million barrels a day? This is barely worth reporting.

 

[TRONZ]

This method of extraction could help pull as many as 130 million additional barrels of oil from the depleted field, which is past peak production using traditional drilling."

This is what I was talking about. People read reports like this and say, "See there's plenty of oil if the environmentalists would just get out of the way!"
But don't we use like 20 million barrels a day? This is barely worth reporting.

Ya, that would last us a week... and then what? Not much of an energy policy and gets to the real point. Oil wants to get everyone all crazy and committed to their snark hunt just so they can charge us $5 a gallon when we do actually find something. How insane is that!? If the oily folks actually cared about Americans they would be spending all this frantic energy and lobbying on creating a clean and permanent solution to the problem instead of trying to work us over for every last red cent before they die.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

For all the fretting over gas prices it's worth remembering that fuel is a relatively small part of the overall cost of owning and operating a car. Going from $3 to $4 a gallon is probably only a 5% increase in TCO. It's more of an emotional (and political) thing.

Really??
Tell that to the couple in my office spending $680 a month on gas to get to work.

+1 have a couple one drives 50-55 miles RT in a Chevy Mini Van that gets 17 mpg the other drives about 40-45 miles RT in a F-150 that does near 20 on the freeway. their gas bill is $600+

keep in mind that is only 150 gallons @ $4. so if averaging 20 mpg that is 3000 miles a month. they are driving more than that. she tried to get her schedule changed so they could car pool since they travel the same direction for about 20 miles or so, but gave up trying after a year or so. the facility (my former employer) moved from Tumwater (where her commute was like 35 Miles) to its current location Dec 2010 which was at Northeast Corner of the area verses being near the Southwest corner... about as far as you can go

 

[AndyH]

Ya, that would last us a week... and then what? Not much of an energy policy and gets to the real point. Oil wants to get everyone all crazy and committed to their snark hunt just so they can charge us $5 a gallon when we do actually find something. How insane is that!? If the oily folks actually cared about Americans they would be spending all this frantic energy and lobbying on creating a clean and permanent solution to the problem instead of trying to work us over for every last red cent before they die.

Thank you!

It's funny that even here - with what appears to be a majority of folks not under the hypnotic spell of big oil - folks appear to have trouble stepping back for a look at the big picture.

The continued use of time, energy, and money to squeeze the last few drops out of an old field is little more than the struggling of a drowning person that in the end is likely to result in the loss of the swimmer and rescuer. Close the damn beach already! :evil:

Utter Insanity.

 

[Herm]

But don't we use like 20 million barrels a day? This is barely worth reporting.

We have a LOT of depleted oil wells in the US, so if a few more barrels can be sucked out then it may just be enough to power that 600hp Mustang in 2020, dont forget we also have hundreds of years worth of coal and NG. We dont need to produce oil for the next 1000 years.

 

[AndyH]

For you, Herm:

 

[AndyH]

We're on an exponential growth curve - it's not doom and gloom, it's simple fact. We can change it if we choose - but step one is to recognize the problem.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=149476#p149476
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8674

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOMWzjrRiBg[/youtube]

U.S. driving changes aren't likely to affect oil prices, nor will the 18 month's worth of oil we might pull from the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge or whatever we can pull from the Bakken shale.

But finding alternative ways to get the job done at a personal level - and multiplied by about 5 billion - will certainly make a significant dent in prices! And improve our own bottom line as well.

 

[Jimmydreams]

For all the fretting over gas prices it's worth remembering that fuel is a relatively small part of the overall cost of owning and operating a car. Going from $3 to $4 a gallon is probably only a 5% increase in TCO. It's more of an emotional (and political) thing.

I disagree completely:

It depends on each persons' situation.

I drive over 15,000 miles per year. At 30mpg = 500 gallons of gas. At $4/gal, there's $2k per year (that's 10% of the cost of the $20K vehicle PER YEAR (and not likely to decrease, either!)) If the average lifespan of a vehicle is 8 years, that's $16K in gas costs on a $20K vehicle....or 80% of your purchase price added on for fuel. NOT counting maintenance or insurance, etc. That's using $4/gal in the figures....I paid $4.19/gal for regular just last night. Do you REALLY see gas prices dropping measurably any time soon? I sure don't!

HARDLY what I'd call "a relatively small part of the overall cost of owning and operating a car".

As for the OP, while driving changes may have little effect of oil prices, demand and availability surely do.....so why on earth are we still happily riding that oil train all the way to it's inevitable crash?!? At least EV's are a step in the right direction.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

I disagree completely:

It depends on each persons' situation.

I drive over 15,000 miles per year. At 30mpg = 500 gallons of gas. At $4/gal, there's $2k per year (that's 10% of the cost of the $20K vehicle PER YEAR (and not likely to decrease, either!)) If the average lifespan of a vehicle is 8 years, that's $16K in gas costs on a $20K vehicle....or 80% of your purchase price added on for fuel. NOT counting maintenance or insurance, etc. That's using $4/gal in the figures....I paid $4.19/gal for regular just last night. Do you REALLY see gas prices dropping measurably any time soon? I sure don't!

HARDLY what I'd call "a relatively small part of the overall cost of owning and operating a car".

As for the OP, while driving changes may have little effect of oil prices, demand and availability surely do.....so why on earth are we still happily riding that oil train all the way to it's inevitable crash?!? At least EV's are a step in the right direction.

I agree it is certainly situation dependent, but my point was that looking at averages the recent run up in gas prices (25%?) is nowhere near that much of an increase in TCO. Our situations are similar; I have a $20k gas car that gets maybe 30mpg too. In round numbers we're looking at $2k a year in depreciation, $800 in interest, $1500 for insurance, $500 for maintenance, $200 for tags/fees and $2k for fuel. Sure these numbers vary by person or state; but to keep some perspective that at $3 a gallon that car was costing me $4500 a year, now it's costing me $5000 a year. Enough to cause some grumbling, but most people will keep right on doing what they are doing.

Don't get me wrong I'm all for the EV; that's why we got one - I'm just searching for an explanation as to why more people don't seem all that concerned. I know people who spend more on tires that you or I spend on gas. It just doesn't seem to be that big a deal for most people.

And no, I don't see gas prices dropping much. Have you seen a reduction in traffic where you live?

 

[Jimmydreams]

And no, I don't see gas prices dropping much. Have you seen a reduction in traffic where you live?

Only a slight decrease. I look at gas prices like taxes....it's a somewhat 'hidden' cost. If you denied withholding ANYTHING for taxes and suddenly got an IRS bill for $10,000, you'd explode! Same thing for gas.....but if you trickle the bill in small increments over time, it's less noticeable to more people.

:/

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Maybe not a huge reduction in driving but did go from one half used rideshare board to 3 separate boards sortedby region at my former employer

 

[AndyH]

... I'm just searching for an explanation as to why more people don't seem all that concerned. I know people who spend more on tires that you or I spend on gas. It just doesn't seem to be that big a deal for most people...

One of my friends brings in about $20K per month from their husband/wife sales business. They work trade shows all over the country and get from place to place in a large diesel pickup. They don't care about the price of their deductible fuel.

On the other hand, there are the folks just north of here that make airplane parts and are paid between $10 and $12 per hour. They can get enough overtime to pay for their mobile home and gas to get back and forth to work most of the time - as long as they don't get sick.

I'm thinking that across the country there are many more in the latter group than the former - and that suggests gas prices actually are a big deal for most people...