Turtle mode on startup, clears with restart… should I worry?

[ibbica]

I’ve got a 2016 Leaf with >100,000 km, I’m still perfectly happy with it but do realize it’s aging! Just trying to decide if I need to worry about replacing the car or the battery soon…

Last year the car got stuck in turtle mode; after some troubleshooting turned out to be a failing 12V battery, that I replaced. No more turtle mode, yay!
Then, a couple months after that, the car started sometimes going into turtle mode immediately on startup. 12V tested fine (I did also recheck its seating and connections anyway, all good), so I started paying closer attention to what was happening when that damned turtle did or did not show up… here’s what I’ve been able to discern:

- If the car is plugged in and actively charging (not yet to 100%), then unplugged and immediately started: all good, no turtle mode.
- If the car has been sitting unplugged for longer than about 10 mins, or if it’s plugged in but not actively charging: BAM turtle mode on startup.
- If the car starts in turtle mode: if I turn it off, then wait until the interior cabin light turns itself off (about 30 sec), then start it immediately-to-about-5mins-later (I haven’t timed the max time delay that works here): all good, no turtle mode
- If the car does start in turtle mode, and I turn it off, and then turn it on again *before* the interior cabin light turns off… BAM turtle mode again.
- If I’ve been driving, park (car off) for a quick stop, and am back to restart the car within a few minutes (I haven’t actually timed this bit exactly): all good, no turtle mode.

Can anyone suggest an explanation? I’m wondering if it has something to do with when the battery cells are compared to their neighbours to balance themselves… anyone know at what time point(s) during the car’s driving/charging/activity that actually happens? Or could it be something else entirely?

Unfortunately I don’t have LeafSpy or an ODM reader (been tempted, but haven’t been able to justify the expense when it doesn’t look like it’ll give me any info I can act on myself anyway), so I do realize some potentially-clarifying data may be missing.

Not panicking because (1) the car hasn’t been slipping into turtle mode while driving and (2) I can live with the “turn it off, wait 30 sec, then restart” workaround. I’m quite happy the thing isn’t stuck in turtle mode completely! But I’m puzzled… is this sort of behaviour a sure sign of impending doom, just a quirk of an aging car, or something in between?

Anyone have any insight?

 

[knightmb]

Is the Leaf outdoors in freezing weather currently? Turtle mode has a lot of functions. It's fame is for the depleted battery, but it also activates if the battery is too hot or too cold. Turtle mode is also a fail-safe if something else is wrong with the battery or Leaf system that could be dangerous to the driver.

 

[ibbica]

Is the Leaf outdoors in freezing weather currently? Turtle mode has a lot of functions. It's fame is for the depleted battery, but it also activates if the battery is too hot or too cold. Turtle mode is also a fail-safe if something else is wrong with the battery or Leaf system that could be dangerous to the driver.

Not currently… I’m near Vancouver (British Columbia, Canada) so don’t usually have freezing or exceptionally hot temps most days; chilly yes recently (0-5’C overnight past few weeks, around 10’C daytimes), but this was happening in the summer/fall when temps were around 10’C. I’m mostly confused by the fact that turning it off for a moment after starting (no real time to warm anything up) and then right back on knocks it back out of turtle mode… if there was a “real” problem would it not be that easy?

 

[nlspace]

Do you have a voltmeter and could measure/monitor the voltage of the 12V battery?

That was the cause of the problem before--it could be again especially since it is winter time and that slows down the chemical reaction in the battery. It could be dirty or corroded terminals or chassis ground connections also.

 

[ibbica]

Do you have a voltmeter and could measure/monitor the voltage of the 12V battery?

That was the cause of the problem before--it could be again especially since it is winter time and that slows down the chemical reaction in the battery. It could be dirty or corroded terminals or chassis ground connections also.

Yep! Done that, it reads as ”good” (…just checked after leaving the car outside for an hour at 6’C and it did its usual “turtle mode start”; currently 12.77V).

 

[Chad E. Mo]

Chassis ground faults are the spawn of Satan... I've seen them wreak havoc and sow utter confusion.

 

[cornbinder89]

I'm having the same problem, did you ever get to the cause? Mine started when I ran the battery low and then recharged . (low= less that 10% charge). 1st time I ever let it get that low and it will be the last.
No, it is not the 12 volt battery that is causing it.
I can clear it the same way as the O/P'er can.
No code reader either, at least not yet.

 

[ibbica]

I'm having the same problem, did you ever get to the cause? Mine started when I ran the battery low and then recharged . (low= less that 10% charge). 1st time I ever let it get that low and it will be the last.
No, it is not the 12 volt battery that is causing it.
I can clear it the same way as the O/P'er can.
No code reader either, at least not yet.

Nope, no new info yet... at some point in the next few months I'll take it in for service again, and maybe they'll be able to tell me more... but thank you for commenting, as it's comforting to know I'm not the only one! If it's any consolation, I'd definitely run the battery very low before, like to the point where the % remaining and Guess-O-Meter were both reading "--", but that happened several times (like 3-4?) well before this nonsense started, so I don't think your one-time battery drain triggered it ;-)
I'm not panicking as it's simple enough to 'reset', but will definitely update if I get any more new info!

 

[Wef]

Mine is the same 40 k all down to one bad cell .needs changing.ok full charge. Small Amount off top and it goes into limp mode.

 

[cornbinder89]

Nope, no new info yet... at some point in the next few months I'll take it in for service again, and maybe they'll be able to tell me more... but thank you for commenting, as it's comforting to know I'm not the only one! If it's any consolation, I'd definitely run the battery very low before, like to the point where the % remaining and Guess-O-Meter were both reading "--", but that happened several times (like 3-4?) well before this nonsense started, so I don't think your one-time battery drain triggered it ;-)
I'm not panicking as it's simple enough to 'reset', but will definitely update if I get any more new info!

Mine had been doing fine, and I wanted to find out how much range I had, also others have recommended once and great while, running the battery out and recharging fully to re-map the BMS and equalize the cells. Since when it is cleared, I get full power and about the same range, I don't think it is a battery issue.
Tomorrow I am going to disconnect the 12 volt to see if that will clear any lurking codes stored in any of the modules.
I'll report back after the disconnect is done and I have a few days on it.

 

[Stanton]

I'm having the same problem, did you ever get to the cause? Mine started when I ran the battery low and then recharged . (low= less that 10% charge).

I know you are "anti LeafSpy", but I suspect you have a weak/bad cell (or two)...and the only way to identify/diagnose it is with LeafSpy.
I suspect the OP may also have the same problem (zero degrees may not be cold for him, but it is cold for a Lithium battery); it may have been a coincidence that the 12v was also bad (originally).

 

[cornbinder89]

While it is possible I damaged a cell by running the car very low, then recharging (as has been recommend by a few on this site and if I understood, by a dealer for another's problem) I had no problem before this was done. Even at -15F it wouldn't go turtle unless you really pushed it hard (up hill 55 mph) and then would snap right back. Above 0 F you could pull the full 80 kw (floored) with the motor.
For that reason, and the reason that both the O/P and I do not have trouble once turtle is cleared, I doubt it is a traction battery cell, as that would not get better.
I am NOT anti Leafspy, I would have it in a New York minute if I had a device that it could download to.
For me the question of Leafspy is: Do i buy a comparable smart phone, a dongle and all, or do I find a more universal scanner that will work on more cars? The cost difference isn't that great, and the universal aspect of a scanner holds more appeal. Either for me, starting without a smart phone, would be a sizable investment on a retiree's limited income, so the most bang for the buck is a priority. Smart phone and Leafspy are the slightly cheaper option, a Scanner that can also be hooked to the larger display (either its own or my laptop) seams like it might be worth the extra money.

 

[cornbinder89]

Nope, no new info yet... at some point in the next few months I'll take it in for service again, and maybe they'll be able to tell me more... but thank you for commenting, as it's comforting to know I'm not the only one! If it's any consolation, I'd definitely run the battery very low before, like to the point where the % remaining and Guess-O-Meter were both reading "--", but that happened several times (like 3-4?) well before this nonsense started, so I don't think your one-time battery drain triggered it ;-)
I'm not panicking as it's simple enough to 'reset', but will definitely update if I get any more new info!

Today, I disconnected the 12 volt battery (was doing some routine maintenance) Took hydometer readings on the cells etc.
So far, it seams to have corrected the problem. It did change one thing though. When it used to start, the Nav screen/radio used to tilt part way out, at present it stays in the flush position unless you hit the"tilt" button to put in a CD. Radio and everything seams to work fine.
Before I call it fixed, I'd like to see a few days on it.
I used the service manual procedure for 12 volt battery, that is turn the car on, turn it off, and wait 15 minutes without disturbing anything (no opening doors, turning on lights etc). Seams to have worked.
Hope this helps.

 

[cornbinder89]

Went out and did a test drive and the car started and ran normal with only the Green <-> indicator coming on.
So for Ibbica, I would suggest you do a "brute force" clearing of codes by disconnecting the 12 volt battery using the procedure outlined in the manual in the above post. I hope it works as well for you as it did for me.
Unless something changes in the next few days, I will consider this problem resolved and will not post more on it.