To trade in BEV or not

[GetOffYourGas]

GetOffYourGas,

I think among the many reasons not to import to the US is that they are already bringing in the Audi A3 e-tron with the same drive train which has a higher potential for profit. Why decide to dilute a limited market with a competing car? The argument "to be nice guys and make less profit" probably doesn't go over well at stockholder meetings
Stephen

I almost forgot about this car. I was very excited about it a year or two ago, until I learned VW had no plans to cross the pond with it. But you're right; maybe with the ongoing diesel scandal, they will reconsider! It would certainly help bolster the brand's sales in the US. Maybe they could even reinvent themselves from the go-to diesel company to the go-to PHEV company!

This is part of it:

<span>If they targeted the <a href="http://www.mygolfgte.com" class="interlinkr">Golf GTE<span class="tip">Visit the Golf GTE Forum</span></a> at the sub-$30k (after Federal rebate) market (and offered the wagon) they wouldn't really be competing with the more expensive Audi. There is a dividing line, somewhere between $25k and $30k, that marks the upper limit for what a Middle Class family or couple will spend on a car.</span>

The other is that Audi is targetted more at the luxury market whereas the GTE is targeted at the sporty car market. Personally, I put a strong preference to sportiness over luxury, and would consider the GTE if it were available. As it is, I am not in the market for the E-Tron so it's hardly competing for my business.

I do understand that there is a cost for any automaker to bring any car to a new market. So why incur extra cost unless they are fairly confident the product will sell enough to be worthwhile? I understand why the bean counters wouldn't bring the GTE to the US. Then again, if only the bean counters had their way, would VW have produced the GTE in the first place? Or would they be content with the highly desirable (and profitable) GTI?

 

[stevon]

Found out that the Audi A3 and Golf GTE respectively get about the same EV range 21 miles in the real world, basically the same as the C-Max or Fusion Energi models. So there is no reason to pay the premium for a euro car! The A3 and GTE 31 EV only miles seems to be exaggerated in Europe due to their testing methods.

 

[stevon]

Like most hot and heavy affairs longevity......... Old Italian mentor "Goes a fas, dona a las"
My venture into BEV ownership has ended, at least for now. Traded in the faithful Spark for a Ford Fusion Energi Titanium model. Loaded with sun roof, Keyless Start, Heated and Cooled power Leather Seats, ceramic color interior, Back-Up Camera, Ford my "SYNC", Hands-free calling, Active park assist, Driver assist package, Navigation, Adaptive cruise control, on and on.... Does everything but wipe my butt! What a game changer, Sub compact econo box to a Jaguar saloon!
Spent about a month debating and searching for the right Fusion Energi for me. With Black Friday "Friends and Neighbors" incentives going on this weekend, locked down a deal and closed. See a similar car here:
http://ranchofordtemecula.com/Southern-California/For-Sale/New/Ford/Fusion/2016-Energi-Titanium-Gray-Car/44557113/
Negotiated my best deal online and was able to get a quote that worked for me in writing at Sunrise Ford in Fontana, CA. No ford dealer in San Diego was willing to do that. Sunrise did that for me and I was able to find a car that I wanted in stock. Drove my Spark EV to it's limit from Mission Hills to Temecula (75miles) and planned to recharge there before the last leg to Fontana. I was charging Spark EV at the Grosche Ford dealer in Temecula. They had Fusion Energi models in stock, while waiting, browsed their inventory and found a model I liked. Negotiated with them and with a written offer in hand, got an even better deal than Sunrise was willing to do. It saved me 4 more hours of waiting for re-charge to complete and a 50 mile trip north!
This was a great deal of work to get a great deal on a Fusion Energi Titanium w/wanted color, options, trade in Spark EV, pay off loan ($27,700) and keep the same payments + $36 on lease as the loan! Quite a process, no compromises, finished, done. I'm happy with my deal, no buyers doubt like on the Spark EV purchase.
The way I see it I didn't really get burned too bad financially and limited my losses
$ 28,000 Paid initially
$ -7,500 Fed tax incentives for Spark 2015
$ -2,500 State tax incentives for Spark 2015
$-13,500 Trade in
NET______________________________
$ 4500 loss for 7 months use or $642.86 a month
$17,280 New $0 down, closed lease cost to me ($480 x 36) or $480.00 a month

 

[pkulak]

One more vote for the Volt 2. Three (kinda) seats in the back. Near-Leaf range before the engine starts. Great performance and total-ev feel before the engine starts. The only drawbacks are exterior styling (it really does look like you're not allowed to buy one once you hit 29) and pretty bad sightlines.

I'm not sure what your budget is, but the A3 E Tron is also an option. It's got an electric motor that's more powerful than anything else in it's class except the Volt, so (in theory!) it should feel like an EV while the battery is full. Of course, it's also super expensive and the EV range is pretty crappy.

 

[stevon]

pkulak

I'm 55 so I know what you mean with the Volt, although still a style improvement over the subcompact Spark EV. Looked into Audi A3 e-tron lease, asked for a quote but with my position upside down on the Spark EV loan, they laughed when I asked for a $475 a month lease. "das ist nicht möglich" (that is not possible) was their reply. Got the best deal I could afford. Still it was a knock down drag out fight to get an on-the-lot loaded Fusion Energi Titanium lease at that price and without wielding a written Quote and being willing to walk out, almost impossible IMO.
Today drove Energi to work with "EV" mode switched on. ICE never started and car is zippy 0 -30, just quick enough to satisfy my needs as it turns out. Trip was on local streets, under 45mph, 8 miles uphill = 1/2 battery drained. Plugged in at work for 3 hours @120 volt until full. Some Ford dealers will let you "try" without obligation a Fusion Energi for up to 48 hours, just to see if it works for you. Trunk space is a little tight for family travel with luggage. But without my L2 backup generator, more space than I need
Did my homework this time before battle and it has paid off so far
Stephen

One more vote for the Volt 2. Three (kinda) seats in the back. Near-Leaf range before the engine starts. Great performance and total-ev feel before the engine starts. The only drawbacks are exterior styling (it really does look like you're not allowed to buy one once you hit 29) and pretty bad sightlines.

I'm not sure what your budget is, but the A3 E Tron is also an option. It's got an electric motor that's more powerful than anything else in it's class except the Volt, so (in theory!) it should feel like an EV while the battery is full. Of course, it's also super expensive and the EV range is pretty crappy.

 

[stevon]

I'm happy with my new car the Fusion Energi . Averaging 51 MPG gas and electric combined. Love the car and it's luxurious appointments. The SPARK was a fun car but impractical for my needs. When the lease is up in 3 years we'll see what is available, until then enjoying the ride and comfort!

 

[LeftieBiker]

I'm happy with my new car the Fusion Energi . Averaging 51 MPG gas and electric combined. Love the car and it's luxurious appointments. The SPARK was a fun car but impractical for my needs. When the lease is up in 3 years we'll see what is available, until then enjoying the ride and comfort!

My housemate's Prius, with its paltry 12-15 miles EV range, averages in the seventies, MPG-wise. I enjoy a bit of luxury too (although not leather) but I can't see paying that much for a little Ford PHEV with that range and fuel economy. I'd probably get a high-end Volt for that cost.

 

[GRA]

I'm happy with my new car the Fusion Energi . Averaging 51 MPG gas and electric combined. Love the car and it's luxurious appointments. The SPARK was a fun car but impractical for my needs. When the lease is up in 3 years we'll see what is available, until then enjoying the ride and comfort!

My housemate's Prius, with its paltry 12-15 miles EV range, averages in the seventies, MPG-wise. I enjoy a bit of luxury too (although not leather) but I can't see paying that much for a little Ford PHEV with that range and fuel economy. I'd probably get a high-end Volt for that cost.

Um, 'little' Ford PHEV?

Fusion 192" x 73" x 58"

Volt 180" x 71" x 56"

Granted, the Fusion's cargo capacity is limited owing to the pack taking up much of the trunk, but passenger space is much better than the Volt.

 

[stevon]

GRA,

I adamantly agree! Fusion feels huge inside even with the sun roof! Feel qualified to judge owning both cars for more than a month. charging at work and at my new home (17 miles from work vs previous 7) Never have to worry about getting stuck or taking a detour to the store anymore. One note, In EV only mode Fusion Energi is terribly slow, engine kicks in if you stomp on accelerator so at least car is safe in EV only mode in a pinch. The trunk space requires you to be a little creative loading, Spark has no trunk to compare. I have a Tacoma for anything larger than a suitcase. Loving the luxury . Spark vs Fusion? Apples vs Oranges, they are different animals IMO
Stephen

I'm happy with my new car the Fusion Energi . Averaging 51 MPG gas and electric combined. Love the car and it's luxurious appointments. The SPARK was a fun car but impractical for my needs. When the lease is up in 3 years we'll see what is available, until then enjoying the ride and comfort!

My housemate's Prius, with its paltry 12-15 miles EV range, averages in the seventies, MPG-wise. I enjoy a bit of luxury too (although not leather) but I can't see paying that much for a little Ford PHEV with that range and fuel economy. I'd probably get a high-end Volt for that cost.

Um, 'little' Ford PHEV?

Fusion 192" x 73" x 58"

Volt 180" x 71" x 56"

Granted, the Fusion's cargo capacity is limited owing to the pack taking up much of the trunk, but passenger space is much better than the Volt.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I was confusing the Fusion with the littler hybrid/PHEV, I guess. What's that one called, again?

 

[mwalsh]

I was confusing the Fusion with the littler hybrid/PHEV, I guess. What's that one called, again?

C-Max Energi.

 

[RonDawg]

The C-Max isn't all that little either. Per the EPA it has 100 cubic feet of interior passenger volume, bigger than the Leaf's 92 and the Volt's 90. It has a bit less cargo volume than the Leaf (19 cubic ft vs. the Leaf's 24) because of the batteries, but that's also the same as the Volt. The non-plug-in version has the same cargo volume as the Leaf. For further comparison purposes, the 2016 Prius is 91 and 27 respectively.

Like the Leaf, the C-Max's proportions make it look small, but both cars are considered midsize.

 

[stevon]

I was confusing the Fusion with the littler hybrid/PHEV, I guess. What's that one called, again?

The Ford C-Max Energi
http://www.pluginamerica.org/vehicles/ford-c-max-energi

 

[GRA]

I was confusing the Fusion with the littler hybrid/PHEV, I guess. What's that one called, again?

The Ford C-Max Energi
http://www.pluginamerica.org/vehicles/ford-c-max-energi

174" x 72" x 64".

 

[LeftieBiker]

The C-Max isn't all that little either.

The ones I saw seemed small on the inside. To be fair, one was full of someone's Stuff.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

The C-Max isn't all that little either. Per the EPA it has 100 cubic feet of interior passenger volume, bigger than the Leaf's 92 and the Volt's 90. It has a bit less cargo volume than the Leaf (19 cubic ft vs. the Leaf's 24) because of the batteries, but that's also the same as the Volt. The non-plug-in version has the same cargo volume as the Leaf. For further comparison purposes, the 2016 Prius is 91 and 27 respectively.

Like the Leaf, the C-Max's proportions make it look small, but both cars are considered midsize.

Actually, the CMax has a larger trunk than the Volt (19cu ft to 10cu ft). I also loaded them both up with large items (a couple of suitcases and a cooler) to get a visual appreciation. That's actually the primary reason that we went with a CMax Energi over a Volt.

<span>

I'm happy with my new car the <a href="http://www.myfusionenergi.com" class="interlinkr">Fusion Energi<span class="tip">Visit the Fusion Energi Forum</span></a> . Averaging 51 MPG gas and electric combined. Love the car and it's luxurious appointments. The SPARK was a fun car but impractical for my needs. When the lease is up in 3 years we'll see what is available, until then enjoying the ride and comfort!

</span>

My housemate's Prius, with its paltry 12-15 miles EV range, averages in the seventies, MPG-wise. I enjoy a bit of luxury too (although not leather) but I can't see paying that much for a little Ford PHEV with that range and fuel economy. I'd probably get a high-end Volt for that cost.

Without knowing the driving patterns of each of these owners, this is not a fair comparison. Part of the problem with a PHEV is that the achieved MPG can vary so much more than any gas-only car (including a standard hybrid, which only receives energy in the form of gasoline).

I am getting 75MPG in my CMax Energi, which is taller and less efficient than the Fusion.