Timer malfunction, left me with a half-dead car

[derkraut]

FalconFour said: "I'm just going to scroll right past a certain abusive post... this takes some serious self control.

Maybe I need to explain... *deep breath*... *hard rolling eyes*... exactly where I come from and exactly how much I already understand about the LEAF's internal systems and how I'm probably one of the most outspoken LEAF advocates in the whole 200-mile area of a crap-hole called the "central valley". There may be one or two more... but no, I'm not a freaking moron with this thing, even though the car didn't come with a manual in the glove box."

I have an extra Owners Manual for the 2011 Leaf. If you PM me your mailing address, I'll send it to you at no charge.

 

[TonyWilliams]

But how do I get the car to ignore the "end time" and just call it a "cutoff time"? Hell, if the car's 50% charged at 4:30pm, I'd want it to charge 'til 5pm, stop, then resume at 8pm.

My a Clipper Creek has a "high-off" pin that can be switch to ground by a timer. You could set the time to kill the charger from 5pm-8pm easily.

 

[FalconFour]

Hey, FalconFour: OOPS!---I didn't realize you were so sensitive. I don't care what you say, I love you anyway, Man. You see, I used to live in Fresno; and I know what that place can do to you. Luckily, I got out of there before I suffered permanent brain damage. Now....go set your timers. :lol: :lol:

Sensitive to being questioned on my loyalty to electric cars, of course. :lol: Dammit, I'm pouring heart and soul into identifying any flaws in this amazing machine and finding a real-world solution to them instead of just stomping feet and whining "Nyeeee, it doesn't work, I'm buying a Hummer!" :lol:

You know, like the rest of Fresno. I hate this place.

Oh, and thanks for the offer, but I got a downloaded PDF manual, read over it one evening and learned everything I could. Engineer at heart (and in the garage), I catch on quick - the manual was mostly entertainment. Dealer would provide one if I asked though

Tony: But unfortunately that would blow right past 80% if I don't set a timer. I hate losing regen on "Eco" mode far more than I hate waking up to a half-charged car :lol:

edit: I take that back. I guess if you've got an extra one and I've got "no" one, may as well prevent extra wasted paper if I'd ask for one at the dealer. May as well be truly eco-friendly!

 

[TonyWilliams]

Tony: But unfortunately that would blow right past 80% if I don't set a timer. I hate losing regen on "Eco" mode far more than I hate waking up to a half-charged car :lol:

You have much to learn, Grasshopper.

If you set the car timer to 12:00-12:00 and 80%, so that any time you plug in, the car will charge to 80%. Now, set the Clipper Creek timer to turn off at 5pm, and on at 8pm.

 

[evnow]

Tony: But unfortunately that would blow right past 80% if I don't set a timer. I hate losing regen on "Eco" mode far more than I hate waking up to a half-charged car :lol:

You have much to learn, Grasshopper.

If you set the car timer to 12:00-12:00 and 80%, so that any time you plug in, the car will charge to 80%. Now, set the Clipper Creek timer to turn off at 5pm, and on at 8pm.

+1. What I do is set the timer for something like 3:00 pm to 2:55 pm. It will always charge as soon as I plugin (no peak times here, thanks to CA who buy all our extra electricity).

 

[FalconFour]

That is so weird. I remember that I stopped doing that because it would "shift" the charging times to the point at which the times wrap-around. So I'd have like 9am to 9am, and it would start charging around 11pm (I was on 110v at the time) to be done by 9am even though I plugged in at 5pm. No joke. That's why this whole thread exists, because I've known that's how the charger behaves...

Once drama in the living room settles down (like I said. Rough day.), I can go down to the car and play with the timers... once I turn the breaker back on as well... :lol:

 

[braineo]

I solved my problem by killing all Leaf timers and using my wall charger timers. I can easily override my wall timer set to 11pm until 7 am due to my time of use rate with presing a button or remotely. I also charge at work and I want that to always go flawlessly whenever it is ougged in. Other not being aware there was no program initially set for weekends at my home Blink charger which caused my dumb mistake of assuming 100% charge when it never did anything on a Saturday evening, I'm all set. So far over 1,000 miles on my first month of ownership and $250 back in my pocket and not the oil cartel thugs... priceless...

 

[davewill]

That is so weird. I remember that I stopped doing that because it would "shift" the charging times to the point at which the times wrap-around. So I'd have like 9am to 9am, and it would start charging around 11pm (I was on 110v at the time) to be done by 9am even though I plugged in at 5pm. No joke. That's why this whole thread exists, because I've known that's how the charger behaves...

Once drama in the living room settles down (like I said. Rough day.), I can go down to the car and play with the timers... once I turn the breaker back on as well... :lol:

It just FLAT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY. Too many of us have too much experience with the LEAF timers to believe that it did in your case. You've made a mistake, and need to do that "playing" in order to get this straightened out. I'm not a big fan of the way the LEAF timers work, but they are consistent enough, once you get the hang of them.

 

[ttweed]

I used timer-override to start it. Now it's 6pm, an hour into peak rate hours. And I can't stop it. I even flipped the breaker off and back on, and it dutifully continued charging after I switched it back on. WTF?

I believe you might have to unplug the car for the timer over-ride button command to lapse. If you simply flipped the breaker instead of unplugging the car, the timer over-ride was probably still in effect and it began charging immediately again when it was switched back on. It may have just interpreted the breaker switch cycle as being a short power outage and it is programmed to save you from having a car that didn't finish charging because of a brief outage. Try unplugging next time instead of flipping the breaker.

TT

 

[FalconFour]

I used timer-override to start it. Now it's 6pm, an hour into peak rate hours. And I can't stop it. I even flipped the breaker off and back on, and it dutifully continued charging after I switched it back on. WTF?

I believe you might have to unplug the car for the timer over-ride button command to lapse. If you simply flipped the breaker instead of unplugging the car, the timer over-ride was probably still in effect and it began charging immediately again when it was switched back on. It may have just interpreted the breaker switch cycle as being a short power outage and it is programmed to save you from having a car that didn't finish charging because of a brief outage. Try unplugging next time instead of flipping the breaker.

TT

Yeah, that was a matter of the breaker being a less frustrating way to try to fix the problem than trying to go through the living room (and the people there) at the time. Social crap. I hate it. It ruined that entire day.

...

And yeah, now those timers I set originally do seem to be making the car charge at any valid time. As I hoped it would. So yeah, these charge timers... they have a little uncertainty factor to them (as I think of it), definitely in need of some work on the design side of the software.

So I'm going to go rearrange the timers adspguy proposed and plug 'em into my car. It's Saturday now so it's probably still sitting half-charged because "off" *should* mean "charge any time 24 hours". Guess I've gotta go set up two timers

 

[ttweed]

So yeah, these charge timers... they have a little uncertainty factor to them (as I think of it), definitely in need of some work on the design side of the software.

For sure, the timers could be improved in a number of ways--I would like a "quick-switching" mode between Timer 1 and Timer 2 myself, so that I could leave one on 80% and one on 100% and wouldn't have to go in and assign the days for each one and save the program each time, but that's just me and the way I use them. And of course a 90% choice would be nice...but that's not what we have.

I think your problems/frustration have been a result of wanting to approach it as an "exception" timer (trying to tell it when NOT to charge) rather than as a "charging" timer (telling it when to charge), as Nissan intended, along with not familiarizing yourself initially with the way the system is designed to work. The timers work exactly as they are supposed to--I don't think you have experienced any actual malfunction in your car, or "uncertainty" factor, as you put it, but your use of them must align with their design and inherent limitations. As with any computerized device, it will only do what you TELL it to do according to its programming, not necessarily what you WANT it to do.

BTW, what is different in Fresno where peak usage time would be Monday through Friday, from 5pm to 8pm? What is the justification for that? Midday seems to be the natural time for high energy usage--peak here in SD is noon-8pm.

TT--(lived outside Fresno for 3 years, off the 180 between Centerville and Minkler, right next to the King's River)

 

[planet4ever]

I would like a "quick-switching" mode between Timer 1 and Timer 2 myself, so that I could leave one on 80% and one on 100% and wouldn't have to go in and assign the days for each one and save the program each time

Well, it's not totally quick-switch, but you can switch between the two without losing the settings. The settings are saved when you turn off a timer.

BTW, what is different in Fresno where peak usage time would be Monday through Friday, from 5pm to 8pm? What is the justification for that?

I can't speak to justification, but that's the way it is all over PG&E land, which is most of northern California, if you have the E-6 (solar) rate, and if it's "winter", i.e. November through April.

Ray

 

[FalconFour]

Yeah, it's winter "partial peak" times, taken right from their rates chart - M to F, 5pm to 8pm is "partial peak", the rest of the time is "off peak". Summer has a more complicated rate schedule, and I'll have to reprogram the timer when summer rolls around - probably just the night hours.

Believe me, it works now, and I feel stupid. But I do know the car was doing that "plug in and not really feel like charging right now" thing... really wish it would confirm the times on the screen when I shut off the car instead of just saying "hee-hee, charging timer is On!". CHARGING TIMER IS ALWAYS ON. TELL ME SOMETHING I DIDN'T KNOW! Like if it's going to charge right now or not! Or when it will next! :lol:

 

[DaveEV]

BTW, what is different in Fresno where peak usage time would be Monday through Friday, from 5pm to 8pm? What is the justification for that?

I can't speak to justification, but that's the way it is all over PG&E land, which is most of northern California, if you have the E-6 (solar) rate, and if it's "winter", i.e. November through April.

Look at the state's electricity demand profile today. At 5pm demand ramps up 5 GW in one hour as every fires up their kitchen and turns on their TVs and computers after getting home. It's very similar to this every day in the winter. Easy to see why it costs more for electricity during this time period.

In the summer, air condition load builds up the peak load between 4-5pm when commercial buildings are still running the air conditioning and everyone starts getting home and turning on their air conditioning but before it starts cooling off significantly.

 

[FalconFour]

Look at the state's electricity demand profile today.

Yeah, that's definitely going in the bookmarks. That's... a lot of awesome info. Bravo. :mrgreen:

 

[ttweed]

Look at the state's electricity demand profile today. At 5pm demand ramps up 5 GW in one hour as every fires up their kitchen and turns on their TVs and computers after getting home. It's very similar to this every day in the winter. Easy to see why it costs more for electricity during this time period.

In the summer, air condition load builds up the peak load between 4-5pm when commercial buildings are still running the air conditioning and everyone starts getting home and turning on their air conditioning but before it starts cooling off significantly.

Thanks, David. I guess what I should be asking, then, is why is SDG&E screwing us here with a peak rate from noon-8PM? And there is no adjustment for the weekend at all--isn't there a difference in usage then? Seems like a lot of areas have non-peak rates for the entire weekend, yet we maintain the same schedule as weekdays. Maybe I need to get my curmudgeon hat on and write some nastygrams to SDG&E. :evil:

TT

 

[planet4ever]

Thanks, David. I guess what I should be asking, then, is why is SDG&E screwing us here with a peak rate from noon-5PM? And there is no adjustment for the weekend at all--isn't there a difference in usage then? Seems like a lot of areas have non-peak rates for the entire weekend, yet we maintain the same schedule as weekdays.

Are you talking about summer or winter? Or does that also stay the same? PG&E E-6 (solar) "summer" rates, May through October, have peak from 1 PM to 7 PM, with partial peak bracketing that from 10 AM to 9 PM. And, yes, that excludes weekends which have no peak times, and partial peak from 5 PM to 8 PM.

To put that into perspective, if I was using an average of 16 kWh/day more than I generated I would be paying marginal rates per kilowatt hour of 45.535¢ peak, 34.343¢ partial peak, and 26.89¢ off peak. If I could hold my net use to under 11.3 kWh/day I would be paying 28.719¢ peak, 17.528¢ partial peak, and 10.074¢ off peak.

Ray

 

[ttweed]

Are you talking about summer or winter? Or does that also stay the same?

Peak period is the same year-round in SDG&E-land. The only time it changes is for the "Extended Daylight Savings Time" periods (the last 3 weeks of March and the first week of November) when it changes back and forth from 12-8PM to 1-9PM. This is only because their "smart" meters were programmed (hard-coded) for DST before the calendar time period was last changed in 2007 (extended by 1 month) for DST. Instead of fixing all their meters, they just make the user change their own timers if they want to stay in off-peak usage hours.

I am in an experimental EV-TOU program related to the EV Project, but AFAIK, this only involves applying and studying different rate sets and how they effect EV users, and has nothing to do with the timing of peak/offpeak periods, which is the same for all EV users in SD. Business TOU customers have an 11AM-8PM peak period on weekdays, but get a break on weekends, which are entirely off-peak hours. I have never understood why all the residential EV programs have the same peak period 7 days a week. It doesn't seem fair to me.

TT

 

[blappen]

The timer is too confusing/inconsistent when it crosses days. Here is how I have it set:
Timer 1: 12:10 am start 9:50 am end
Timer 2: 12:10 am start 11:50 pm end

I assign M-F to Timer 1 and Sat/Sun to Timer 2. It works exactly as you would expect, except it is off for 20 minutes as it crosses the midnight threshold. But, you can easily see what day is set for what times since the times are all within that day.

My charger does not have a separate timer, but I would turn that off if yours does. Just use the car's timer.

 

[pjoseph]

1) Timer set with no start time and 5 am end time. Charging to 100%.
2) Charging started using over-ride button at 4 pm.
3) Unplugged the car at 6 pm (6 charging bars). Replugged immediately (delayed charging running lights come on)
4) Car fails to charge overnight. and remains at 6 charging bars.

Anyone know why? TIA.

Leaf timers and summer battery temperature bars driving me nuts.