Timer for EVSE?

[greenleaf]

I am investigating putting a timer on a "dumb" EVSE, e.g. the Clipper Creek LCS-25 (30A circuit, 20A charging current).

Would one of these designed for the pool pump / water heater work?

http://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-TI040-7-Day-Programmable-Timer/dp/B001QFZ3XW/ref=pd_sbs_lg_12?ie=UTF8&refRID=0MAY96PXP29AXF0YAKA5" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.amazon.com/Intermatic-EH40-240-Volt-Electronic-Heater/dp/B000NCYPOM/ref=pd_sim_sbs_hi_31?ie=UTF8&refRID=006F2VRAZAGY0G3DJMY6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

These are rated at 30A resistive load. I assume the power factor of EVSE is very close to 1?

 

[jstack6]

Most vehicles have a timer in them, like the LEAF . Some EVSE like BLINK also have a timer. If you power down the entire EVSE some need to the screen to be recalibrate if they lose power. Make sure you get one that will let you power up and down. Those timers should work if you check your EVSE and power it up and down manually to be sure it's ok.

 

[smkettner]

I would not use a timer to cut power while charging. Otherwise 30a 240v timer should be fine.

 

[greenleaf]

I would not use a timer to cut power while charging. Otherwise 30a 240v timer should be fine.

Thanks. I am trying to understand this. Will this have some adverse effect on the timer, EVSE or the car?

 

[smkettner]

Relay is probably fine as it is designed to cut power to a motor while operating. Although slight more wear than after charging has stopped. Same for the evse.
The vehicle was designed to have the J-plug removed which stops the charging as you press the release button. Not really made to have the cord pulled from the wall.

Maybe a non-issue. But what problem are you trying to resolve with the timer?

 

[eyeks]

Relay is probably fine as it is designed to cut power to a motor while operating. Although slight more wear than after charging has stopped. Same for the evse.
The vehicle was designed to have the J-plug removed which stops the charging as you press the release button. Not really made to have the cord pulled from the wall.

Maybe a non-issue. But what problem are you trying to resolve with the timer?

I am trying to solve the same problem - with the Nissan Leaf S model, it is not possible to program a start time for charging. I do not want to have to remember to go to the garage after 6 pm every day to plug the car in when my off-peak time starts, instead, be able to plug the car in when ever I arrive and always have a fully charged car.

With a timer, I'd set it to start at 6pm M-F and shut off at 12 noon M-F - then get the Leaf timer to shut-off at 12 noon - achieving what I need. Does that make sense? Are there other more elegant solutions to the problem?
Thanks,

\iNDRA
2014 Leaf S noob < 100 miles yet!

 

[smkettner]

6p to noon? why not use the end timer? Are you on L1 only?

 

[TonyWilliams]

Some cars go to a sleep mode (typically anything with Tesla power), so we produce a J1772 cable that can send a "wake up" signal to the car and initiate a start and stop time. Any timer could be used, and because we aren't controlling high power (just a simple resistor load).

The Toyota Rav4 EV does not have a start time on its onboard timer, plus it's a real pain to manually override the onboard timer. I prefer a simple and dependable home timer and not use the Rav4 EV timer.

 

[eyeks]

6p to noon? why not use the end timer? Are you on L1 only?

A week into being a Leafer - I'm still on L1. The problem with using only the end timer is:

a) If I set it to 12 noon to use the full charging window, the charging may not start soon enough to let me leave at 7 am, leaving me range limited.
b) If I set it to 7 am, depending on the depletion level evening before, I may not be fully charged.
c) If I arrive before 6 pm, I may end up using 5x expensive power to charge.
d) If I arrive early and forget to plug in at 6 pm, I may be without a car the next morning.

All these situations are solved by a start timer - not sure why Nissan decided to be punitive to the S-model owners - the SL and SV both have start timers - and if you see the page in the manual, even the S should have a start timer! (http://1drv.ms/1k18h2L" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - Read the highlighted part and see if you agree.)

 

[nsayer]

My own personal perspective is that I don't want the car to have a timer at all. If I want to enforce charge timing, I want that to be in the EVSE. I don't want to have to remember to turn the timer in the car off every time I use a public charging station.

Some home EVSEs have external disable inputs. It'd be almost trivial to design a little board with a display and a clock chip to have an event system to turn the charger on and off. Worst-case, you could even use a little relay to break and make the pilot line to add timer functionality to any EVSE.

Would anyone pay $25 for such a thing?

 

[smkettner]

6p to noon? why not use the end timer? Are you on L1 only?

A week into being a Leafer - I'm still on L1. The problem with using only the end timer is:

a) If I set it to 12 noon to use the full charging window, the charging may not start soon enough to let me leave at 7 am, leaving me range limited.
b) If I set it to 7 am, depending on the depletion level evening before, I may not be fully charged.
c) If I arrive before 6 pm, I may end up using 5x expensive power to charge.
d) If I arrive early and forget to plug in at 6 pm, I may be without a car the next morning.

All these situations are solved by a start timer - not sure why Nissan decided to be punitive to the S-model owners - the SL and SV both have start timers - and if you see the page in the manual, even the S should have a start timer! (http://1drv.ms/1k18h2L" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - Read the highlighted part and see if you agree.)

On L1 consider a heavy duty timer from Home Depot.
I understand the issue with poor charge time estimates by the vehicle.
I believe you will need to turn the timer completely off to use an external timer.

http://www.homedepot.com/s/heavy%20duty%20timer?NCNI-5

Verify charging actually starts as expected before you rely on this.

 

[QueenBee]

My own personal perspective is that I don't want the car to have a timer at all. If I want to enforce charge timing, I want that to be in the EVSE. I don't want to have to remember to turn the timer in the car off every time I use a public charging station.

Yep! Fortunately I don't use public charging too often but I have to agree the LEAFs lack of awareness with regards to charge schedule and percent is very aggravating. It has the concept of location with regards to charging since it knows if I forget to plugin at home. All I would ask is that I be able to plugin at home on the schedule and everywhere else it charge immediately. Then combine that with a selectable charge percent and there is a huge improvement.

 

[QueenBee]

6p to noon? why not use the end timer? Are you on L1 only?

A week into being a Leafer - I'm still on L1. The problem with using only the end timer is:

a) If I set it to 12 noon to use the full charging window, the charging may not start soon enough to let me leave at 7 am, leaving me range limited.
b) If I set it to 7 am, depending on the depletion level evening before, I may not be fully charged.
c) If I arrive before 6 pm, I may end up using 5x expensive power to charge.
d) If I arrive early and forget to plug in at 6 pm, I may be without a car the next morning.

All these situations are solved by a start timer - not sure why Nissan decided to be punitive to the S-model owners - the SL and SV both have start timers - and if you see the page in the manual, even the S should have a start timer! (http://1drv.ms/1k18h2L" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - Read the highlighted part and see if you agree.)

On L1 consider a heavy duty timer from Home Depot.
I understand the issue with poor charge time estimates by the vehicle.
I believe you will need to turn the timer completely off to use an external timer.

http://www.homedepot.com/s/heavy%20duty%20timer?NCNI-5

Verify charging actually starts as expected before you rely on this.

I think this might be a bad idea. I'm not sure if it has ever been confirmed and/or fixed but wasn't one of the theories about the GE Watt Stations and the failed onboard chargers was being caused by the power being cut with the switch which then caused on the diode in the OBC to fail? Please take this post with a grain of salt though as it's just how I remember it and wasn't following to closely.

 

[TonyWilliams]

My own personal perspective is that I don't want the car to have a timer at all. If I want to enforce charge timing, I want that to be in the EVSE. I don't want to have to remember to turn the timer in the car off every time I use a public charging station.

Some home EVSEs have external disable inputs. It'd be almost trivial to design a little board with a display and a clock chip to have an event system to turn the charger on and off. Worst-case, you could even use a little relay to break and make the pilot line to add timer functionality to any EVSE.

Would anyone pay $25 for such a thing?

We already sell a J1772 external timer cord; you don't have to build anything. Just install the cord and use any commercially available timer you want "at the wall". It will modulate the proximity signal.

One huge benefit for cars that go to "sleep" like the Tesla Model S, Toyota Rav4 EV, etc... this will wake up the car.

 

[eyeks]

We already sell a J1772 external timer cord; you don't have to build anything. Just install the cord and use any commercially available timer you want "at the wall". It will modulate the proximity signal.

I went over to http://www.quickchargepower.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; but couldn't find the external timer cord... did I go to the wrong place?
Cheers,

 

[johnrhansen]

it would be nice to just break the wire to the small pins on the charging cord. then the evse and the car just think the cord was unplugged.

 

[nsayer]

it would be nice to just break the wire to the small pins on the charging cord. then the evse and the car just think the cord was unplugged.

That's kind of what I proposed.

The only downside is that if you break the pilot line arbitrarily, then the EVSE may be asked to open the contactor under load. An awful lot of J1772 is designed to avoid exactly that.

But if you try to get 'smart' about how to do it, then you wind up basically designing a new EVSE controller, and at that point you might as well just build yourself an OpenEVSE or Hydra (both of which have the timer feature, FWIW).

 

[smkettner]

I think this might be a bad idea. I'm not sure if it has ever been confirmed and/or fixed but wasn't one of the theories about the GE Watt Stations and the failed onboard chargers was being caused by the power being cut with the switch which then caused on the diode in the OBC to fail? Please take this post with a grain of salt though as it's just how I remember it and wasn't following to closely.

Ok and I have read posts of losing power and power coming back on and the car charges fine and normal.
I agree, don't use a mechanical timer with a WattStation.

Best to set the timer to well after departure so power is disconnected by removing the plug.

 

[TonyWilliams]

We already sell a J1772 external timer cord; you don't have to build anything. Just install the cord and use any commercially available timer you want "at the wall". It will modulate the proximity signal.

I went over to http://www.quickchargepower.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; but couldn't find the external timer cord... did I go to the wrong place?
Cheers,

Sorry, not on the website yet as a stand alone product, but it is in there with the 40 amp J1772 plug / cable:

TIMER: Quick Charge Power will now offer a special "Timer Edition" of the 40 amp J1772 plug and cable assembly for your EVSE that will work even if your EV goes "asleep" when not charging (like the Toyota Rav4 EV).

With our unique configuration, you can manipulate the proximity signal at the relay end of your EVSE with your own timer (not supplied). We will ship the "Timer Edition" with the proximity signal connected to the blue wire and ground / earth connected to the orange wire. You simply place your timer between the blue and orange wires. If you don't use a timer, you can just connect the orange and blue together at the relay end of the EVSE and it will work normally, even without a timer.

Your EV will charge until you press the disconnect button on the J1772 handle / plug or until the EV automatically stops when your EV's battery is full. You can also add a 330 ohm resistor and normally closed switch in series to make an EVSE disconnect switch anywhere you'd like, even inside your house. It could also be connected to temperature sensors that will shut down the charge anytime one of them sense an overtemp.

In addition, you can place a second timer with a 330 ohm resistor in parallel to automatically stop the charge per your schedule and needs (for instance, to stay within a public utility "Time of Use") even if the EV isn't fully charged.

You control the start time on your schedule AND wake up the Rav4 EV / Tesla Model S / X, etc. This feature is only $10 (timer not included) in addition to the retail price of the 40 amp J1772 plug / cable assembly. This feature not available with the LED light feature.

LED: This option requires a 3.3 volt connection from blue to ground at your EVSE, not included.

If you want one, here's the link:

http://shop.quickchargepower.com/product.sc?productId=8&categoryId=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just specify you want it set up for external timer.

 

[nsayer]

Your "timer edition" cable also sounds like it is what is recommended for use with the "splitter" variant of the J1772 Hydra. The Hydra needs to propagate inlet proximity transitions directly to the vehicles, so it applies +5 through a 150 ohm resistor to proximity anytime the inlet proximity button is pushed. The Yakiza cables that Leviton sells now no longer include a proximity wire, so they're... less than perfect for the application.

You might put a note on your page about that, and I'll include a note on the Hydra wiki page noting that you're a vendor that sells the correct type of cables.