Thinking of Getting A Leaf

[Graycenphil]

Thanks again. One reason I was hesitant to get rid of my VW tdi was the great forum they have, but it looks like this one is right up there with them.

New leasing question: I spoke to a second dealer, this time about an "S" with the QC option, and they had almost identical numbers except the buyout price was $21,800. (The first one had a buyout of $12,450.) When I asked why so high, they said that I would get the $7,500 tax credit myself, either when I first lease the car or when I take the buyout 3 years later (he wasn't clear on that part). This did not sound right to me - anybody know for sure? The price would be right with the credit and the QC option, but I'm not sure I am entitled to the credit.

 

[KillaWhat]

Yes +1.
Get the DCQC! package.
They ARE starting to show up on the East Coast.
Look at plugshare.com.
I also recommend leather over the crappy recycled milk bottle seats (they get filthy) , and I really enjoy the LED headlights.

Can probably get a good deal on a 13 now that it's 2014?

 

[LEAFguy]

they said that I would get the $7,500 tax credit myself

This should be enough to warn you off the second dealer. Nissan takes the $7,500 when the vehicle is leased. Ask the first dealer for one with the QC if you want it. Hope that helps.

 

[LEAFguy]

Can probably get a good deal on a 13 now that it's 2014?

The lease deal is a Nissan corporate deal, not a dealership deal, and the lease is for the 2013. Don't know if there is a lease package for the '14 yet.

 

[RonDawg]

New leasing question: I spoke to a second dealer, this time about an "S" with the QC option, and they had almost identical numbers except the buyout price was $21,800. (The first one had a buyout of $12,450.) When I asked why so high, they said that I would get the $7,500 tax credit myself, either when I first lease the car or when I take the buyout 3 years later (he wasn't clear on that part). This did not sound right to me - anybody know for sure? The price would be right with the credit and the QC option, but I'm not sure I am entitled to the credit.

That is absolutely NOT correct. If you are leasing through NMAC (Nissan's financing arm), the Federal Tax credit is passed onto you at the time the car is leased. You CANNOT take the tax credit if you lease, as you are not the owner of the car, the lessor (bank) is. Nor is the bank required to pass the tax credit onto you; this is something that Nissan does (and some other EV manufacturers, but not all, do).

Since you are unfamiliar with leasing, a bit of explanation on the terms you will run across:

Capitalized Cost: the price which the lessor (bank) buys the car from the dealership. This price is negotiable, and negotiate it as if you were buying the car yourself.

Capitalized Cost Reduction: the equivalent of a down payment. Any manufacturer or dealer incentives, such as Nissan passing off the $7500 Federal tax credit onto you, will show up here as well.

Residual Value: what you call the "buyout" price. Usually not negotiable, and is determined by the lessor using their own formula

Money factor: the interest rate you are paying on the depreciation. Multiply by 2400 to determine what the actual APR is.

 

[alcalira]

The buyback price of $21,800 is way out of line for a 3 year lease on the S. Must be a mistake. You do not get the $7500 federal tax credit when you lease; the bank gets it and uses it to reduce the cost of the car which is passed on to you in the form of lowered payments.

The buyback price should be roughly the difference between the total of payments and the net capitalized cost. So if the car's negotiated price is $30,000, after the tax credit the net capitalized cost is $22,500. If the payment is $200, and the down payment is $1500, the buyback would be $22,500 - (36 x 200) - 1500 = $13,870.

 

[dgpcolorado]

You might be better off with an SV or SL. The heat pump heater is more efficient than the plain resistance heater on the S down to 0º to 10ºF or so. Those models also have some nice features, such as cruise control and B mode for increased regen braking. The latter probably isn't necessary in CT but it can help with single pedal driving, something some EV fans really appreciate.

The S also doesn't have Carwings (so no remote control of preheating or charging) or the energy screen, which aids in efficient driving (a Gid meter can fill in for that).

And the timers are much more limited in function. The SV/SL have two timers for both charging and climate control and they can be set by days of the week, with start and end times for charging. The S has only one timer for each, end time only, no days of the week settings.

Just be aware of this before getting the S model.

 

[Graycenphil]

The S does not have cruise control or the heat pump heater? The other options I am fine without, but I do like cruise and would appreciate the efficient heater.

Thanks, and for all the leasing, charging and equipment advice too.

 

[dgpcolorado]

The S does not have cruise control or the heat pump heater? ...

That is correct. That's why I mentioned it.

Since your basic drive is short, not having the heat pump might not be that big of a deal but when you are stretching the range in cold, but not extreme, weather it might help. I generally don't use the cabin heater when stretching the range because I normally dress warmly in winter — being originally from Hawai'i — and I live in sunny Colorado so it can be quite pleasant in the car even when it is 20º outside. The commute this morning was 12º but it is only 40 minutes and my car is garaged at above freezing temps, so heat wasn't necessary, other than the steering wheel heater.

I'd sure miss cruise control though.

 

[Graycenphil]

I have this unit at home, it puts out 9.6kWh which the LEAF cannot handle. So my EVSE is over-rated for what I need. For some that is a waste of money but for me I rather have a unit that can put out more watts.

http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-EVB40-PST-Charging-Station-Installation/dp/B00DG1479A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1390166780&sr=8-1&keywords=leviton+evse" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

All starting to make some sense, and I'm trying to get a handle on the charging and ESVE thing.

Looking at the picture of this unit -why does it have a Nema 15 plug coming out of it?

 

[dfwJim]

Looking at the picture of this unit -why does it have a Nema 15 plug coming out of it?

That's not a Nema 5-15. It's one of the 240v plugs, maybe a Nema 6-50?

 

[UBUYGAS]

The NEMA 6-50 looks very similar to the NEMA 15 but is 2X bigger.

Looking at the picture of this unit -why does it have a Nema 15 plug coming out of it?

 

[Graycenphil]

Thanks.

 

[Graycenphil]

Well, I test drove a SV today. Smaller backseat and trunk than I had expected (fair bit smaller than my Jetta). But comfortable, smooth and powerful. Great heater, and I've never had a heated steering wheel before. Acceleratingis really fun - almost no noise, it just goes faster and faster. Overall a lot of fun.

Of course, it was a pretty typical dealership experience, which I don't like. And the numbers weren't that good. This was not the dealer I originally got a quote from, but the "Costco dealer". Last week I had gotten a price, on the phone from a different dealer, for an "S",of $2,000 down, $200 a month for 36 months and buyout of $12,400. Today the price for an "S" with the QC package was $3,000 down (my trade), $298 a month for 36 months and buyout of $13,188.

I know the QC costs about $1,300, but that's a difference of $5,316. Now I wonder was the first dealer lowballing me, was the second one just out of line or am I missing something?

I will talk to the first dealer tomorrow and see what they say.

 

[LEAFguy]

Go to nissanusa.com and select LEAF. Click on "More local offers" on the left. The Nissan corporate lease deal looks like it's only on the S now. They used to have one on the SV and SL also, but those no longer appear. Your first dealer quoted you the Nissan corporate lease. I don't know what the second dealer quoted you, but it will be slightly different (more) with the quick charge option from any dealership. If you choose to go with the SV, since there is no Nissan corporate advertised deal, you go back to negotiating with your choice of local dealers, and expect a significantly higher payment, likely combined with more down payment, since their is no corporate sponsorship of the deal.

Good luck!

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Try Marlboro Nissan, RT 20, in MA, for comparison, they had the best deal of the 12 dealers I tried. They'll do it by email. Jim McCall is the main LEAF guy.

 

[Graycenphil]

Thanks again. I emailed Marlborough, waiting for an answer.

I got a lease quote by phone from another dealer, originally they said $2,000 down and $200 a month, (like what I found on the Nissan website - thanks Leafguy). When they emailed the details to me it was much higher:

595-Nissan acquisition fee
$254.68-1st pmt
$681.25-doc and vin verification
706.49-upfront taxes
$2237.42-total due
+$1757.58 - Money Down
$3,995.00

In other words, $4,000 down, plus $250 per month. Is that dealer padding or something legit?

 

[Boourns]

Seems high to me. This is the S model with the QC package? The "VIN verification" fee jumps out at me the most as being unnecessary.

To really evaluate the deal, you'll want to ask the salesman or the finance guy for:
-Sales price of the car (or capitalized cost);
-Lease term;
-Money factor; and
-Residual amount.

These are the important numbers that determine your payment. They may be reluctant to give this to you, but if they are serious about selling you a car they will.

 

[Graycenphil]

Talked to another dealer this morning, who I kind of like, and got similar but better numbers:

$31,230 Sales price
36 month
$233 per month
$12,492 residual

Initial Charges:
$2,000 down
$595 Aq fee
$560 Sales tax
$170 Reg Fee
$499 Dealer Conveyance

Total $3824

This is an S with the quick charge.

I guess this seems okay. I don't like the aquisition fee or the dealer conveyance, but they do seem to be pretty standard.

They are offering $4K for my trade, which I do think is fair, so I'll pay almost nothing in cash.

I don't know the money factor, but I guess it could be calculated from this. Bottom line is it seems to make sense to me. I'm pretty tempted....

 

[Boourns]

Go build a Leaf S with QC on the Nissan website, and you'll see that they want to sell you the car for about $300 over MSRP, probably due to dealer accessories like floor mats or something. Some people would never consider a deal like that. Others would be fine with it. The bottom line is that if you are happy with the money down and the monthly payment then go for it.