Thinking of Getting A Leaf

[dgpcolorado]

No, DCQC cannot be added. Must be factory installed.
Many early 2011 customers were in the government EVproject. They got an SL-etec model that included DCQC at no cost. All 2012s had it. Overall a large % of LEAFs have it.

One correction here: 2012 SL models have the Quick Charge port. The 2012 SV models do not. If Quick Charging is of interest be sure to check that the car in question has the charge port.

...Prices seem to be around 15K here too. That seems high to me because I know that the original owner may have paid under 20K brand new, if they bought it in a state with good incentives. With all the battery degradation reports, it does seem buying a used one is much riskier. I'd have thought that might be reflected in better prices.

Very few cars were sold with incentives that lowered the price to $20k. The 2012 prices were much higher than the 2013 prices and only a few states have significant state incentives, with West Virginia the highest IIRC. Others are Georgia, Colorado, California, and Washington (waives sales tax, I believe). So, don't think that the older cars were routinely sold below about $25k net. Most were not.

Speaking of which, that seems to be the only issue anyone is complaining about. Can I assume then that braking, suspension, heating, air conditioning, electrical, etc are all very reliable?

For the most part, yes. "Grabby brakes" are a common problem and there is a software fix that is supposed to help. There is also a simple DIY fix that works well IME. The resistance heater has had some failures and there is a long backlog to get the parts. The problem seems worse on 2013 models, for reasons I can't fathom. There are a few reports of the 12V battery failing, in part because the LEAF doesn't do a good job keeping it fully charged, which is bad for lead-acid batteries. A few other problems have cropped up but my sense is that, aside from the main traction battery degrading faster than we were led to believe, the LEAF has been surprisingly reliable for the most part.

As for the battery, if I look at a used Leaf and it shows all 12 bars for the battery, am I pretty much assured a good one? ...

No. The 12th capacity bar is supposed to be lost at 15% degradation but user reports suggest that the car can get close to 20% loss before it disappears. Please understand that a car with 15% or so degradation is still perfectly usable, especially for a short commute. But do consider that the battery will continue to degrade over time so more capacity is better when you purchase a used LEAF*.

My suggestion, and that of others here, is that you purchase or borrow some sort of "Gid meter" that can be used to check on the actual capacity (in Amp•hours) of the battery of any used LEAF you plan to buy. Do NOT expect a dealer to know, or be willing to tell you the truth even if they did know. A Gid meter is also useful to know how much charge is left when driving the car and makes using the bottom part of the battery capacity much more comfortable. In effect, it increases the range and greatly reduces "range anxiety".

One other thing. Only a few 2011 LEAFs had the cold weather package. You can tell which ones because they have the seat and steering wheel heaters (what you can't see is that they also have a battery heater to protect it from extreme cold; it comes on at -4ºF). All 2012 and 2013 LEAFs have it. In the snowbelt you definitely want the cold weather package. Even if your car never sits in below zero temperatures for an extended time, the seat and steering wheel heaters can greatly reduce the need for the energy hog cabin heater. I consider it a really big deal, which is why I mention it.


* A notable exception to the idea that more capacity is better is that if you were to purchase a LEAF with a battery that is severely degraded you could get another battery from Nissan if the car loses four capacity bars (~66% capacity remaining) AND it has less than 60k miles and is less than five years old. So far Nissan has been putting new batteries in those warranty claim cars but it is possible that they may use used batteries in the future. The warranty says that the car will be kept at nine CBs or more during the warranty period. These severely degraded battery cars are usually found in hot weather states such as Arizona, Texas, and parts of California.

 

[Graycenphil]

There are no QC stations near me either, but I imagine as time goes on there may be. Plugshare.com is great; I was actually surprised to find as many around here as I did. It is a pretty rural, traditional kind of area.

I don't think I would plan a trip knowing that you had to wait around for the quick charge, but having the option might mean you use the electric car when you wouldn't otherwise. On the other hand, if you are counting on a QC and the station is full or the system is down, you're in trouble.

Are the charging stations that expensive? I thought there were some free ones around too - city buildings, schools, shopping centers or restaurants?

Do all years and option levels allow preheating while the car is plugged in? It will be garaged 99% of the time, but the garage is not heated.

Again, thank you all for the advice and information. Makes the concept of going electric much more comfortable. I hope Nissan appreciates you.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Are the charging stations that expensive? I thought there were some free ones around too - city buildings, schools, shopping centers or restaurants?

I can't help you with that one. There are no public charge stations withing LEAF range of where I live. Zero. I am envious of those who have them!

Do all years and option levels allow preheating while the car is plugged in? It will be garaged 99% of the time, but the garage is not heated...

Yes, all cars can be preheated using a timer. Cars with Carwings (the 2013 S model doesn't have it) can be preheated remotely. Except that Carwings is sometimes flaky.

On the subject of preheating, in cold weather a Level 1 (120 Volt) EVSE doesn't supply enough current to preheat well. If you want to preheat in the snowbelt a Level 2 (240 Volt) EVSE is HIGHLY recommended. By the way, you can also preheat a LEAF that isn't plugged-in, although it will deplete the battery just as if you were using the heater while driving. So, if the range isn't limiting and your car has been sitting out in the cold all day you can program it or use Carwings to tell it to preheat before you drive home. It is quite pleasant to get into a pre-warmed car.

A garaged car will stay warmer than one that is parked outside. That will help the battery stay warm and that will improve the cold weather range somewhat over a car that is parked outside in very cold weather. It also makes preheating easier. Not to mention that you don't have to scrape ice off the windshield in the morning, as you well know.

 

[planet4ever]

The '11 and '12 LEAFs had a 3.3 kW OBC that adds about 10-12 miles per hour of charging @ 240 volts, about three times as fast as 120 volts. At 20 miles/day you could get by with the 120 volt EVSE that comes with the car, but you'll be happier with a 240 volt. EVSEupgrade.com is a good option as it's less expensive and portable, you could use it at campgrounds.

This covers the basics, but let me show it in an way that might be a bit clearer:

120v charging: 1.1kW
All years, all models, nothing extra to buy, no practical way to make it faster except that in some cases you can combine two 120v circuits with a "Quick220" or equivalent.

240v charging: 3.3kW to 6 kW
Requires an extra cost EVSE, or use of public EVSEs. Rate varies based both on EVSE rating and on-board charger rating.

   2011  2012    2013     2014
SL  3.3   3.3    6.0      6.0
SV  3.3   3.3    6.0      6.0
S              3.3/6.0  3.3/6.0

• 6.0 is provided on the S model by the Charge Package option. You can easily spot if that is installed because it also includes the DC/QC port next to the normal charging port.
• 6.0kW can be achieved only if you have a 30A or faster EVSE. A 16A EVSE can only provide 3.3kW. Intermediate sizes provide intermediate speeds. The EVSE Upgrade for 2011/2012 is 16A. For 2013 it is 20A.

DC Quick charge: Average 30kW, maximum 45kW
Not available at home; only at special Quick Charge stations, which are relatively rare in most areas.

   2011  2012    2013     2014
SL  opt   std    std      std
SV        opt?   opt      opt
S                opt      opt

If the car has two flip-open covers under the charging port cover then it has DC/QC capability. Otherwise it cannot be added.

Ray

 

[RonDawg]

Are the charging stations that expensive? I thought there were some free ones around too - city buildings, schools, shopping centers or restaurants?

It depends on whose charging station it is. It can range anywhere from free to as much as $5 for a quick charge session. PlugShare will often have that info.

One problem with free charging stations...you'll find people hogging them.

 

[cwerdna]

planet4ever provided a good summary.

He also provided a good diagram at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=262630#p262630" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

For L1 and L2 charging, the external units regardless of whether it's the "trickle charge" cable (J1772 handle w/brick and 120 volt plug) or something more permanent are EVSE, NOT chargers. The charger is on-board the car: under the hood for '13+ Leafs and under the hump in the back on '11 and '12s.

 

[UBUYGAS]

I know a guy on Facebook who is selling his 2012, He's in NJ.

http://newjersey.craigslist.org/cto/4266224217.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

BTW, if anyone on the forum is looking to trade in their Leaf, and the dealer is not offering a good price, please let me know.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

If you go into settings on Plugshare and shut off the 120 V wall outlets, you'll find a lot of stations disappeared and your closest L2s are Putnam and Storrs. Public L1 is hardly worth the time. You'll do most charging at home. You could easily reach Hartford, Prov, or Worcester if youre going to stay a few hours. You could reach the QC in Auburn, or even Middletown if you took 66.

Most EVSE are free for now, not hogged yet as there's still few EVs around here. Worst problem is being ICEd out. A lot of folk here aren't aware of all-electric cars yet, so don't know of our need to charge.

 

[Graycenphil]

Thank you all again. This is incredibly helpful.

So I'm looking for a used Leaf, probably '11 or '12, with 12 bars that also check out with a Gid meter. I QC connector would be nice, but it must have 240 volt capability, and the winter package -seats, steering wheel and battery heater. I'd prefer the heat pump, but it's probably not worth paying too much extra for. All for a good price.

I will talk to a dealer, and see what the lease rates are on new ones, but I'm not inclined that way.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Keep reading. There's a learning curve. It'll take a while to really sink in, but you're catching on.

They all have 240 capability, it's just that the '11s & '12s only have a 3.3 kW charger onboard, so they charge half as fast as a '13 with a 6.0 kW charger onboard.

Unless you need a lot of public charging, 3.3 is good enough.

 

[Graycenphil]

I think 3.3 will be fine for me, but in the chart by Planet4ever, about 7 posts up, it looked like the '11 and '12 "S" models might not have the 3.3/240 volt capability? Am I misreading?

Thanks, your patience is appreciated.

 

[dfwJim]

All Leafs can charge at 240 and 120.

QC is different and not on all Leafs.

 

[RonDawg]

I think 3.3 will be fine for me, but in the chart by Planet4ever, about 7 posts up, it looked like the '11 and '12 "S" models might not have the 3.3/240 volt capability? Am I misreading?

The Leaf S did not become available until the 2013 model year. That is why it is not listed for MY's 2011 and 2012.

This model comes with the slower 3.3 kW on board charger as standard. If you buy a Leaf S with the optional "Charge Package" it comes with the faster charger as well as the Quick Charge port and a regular backup camera. That's why it's listed as 3.3/6.0.

 

[ERG4ALL]

One thing to keep in mind when you are looking at used LEAFs and their range, is your driving habits. The physics are that the energy required to move the vehicle goes up by the square of the speed. Thus, if you are used to driving at 75 mph, you will use 56% more energy than if you drove at 60 mph ((75x75)/(60x60) -1). This means sometimes it is better to take surface streets than the freeway, it often makes the difference of only a few minutes to reach your destination. That can make a big difference as to your satisfaction with a LEAF. Another valuable tip is to pretend that you have raw eggs strapped to the foot pedals. Drive in "ECO" mode and regenerate as much as possible. With proper anticipation, we have gotten as high as 5 miles/kWh without being an obstruction to other traffic.

 

[LEAFguy]

I will talk to a dealer, and see what the lease rates are on new ones, but I'm not inclined that way.

Not to confuse you, but it might be much less expensive to lease and you may have a better ownership experience. You can lease a brand new 2013 LEAF S for $199 per month for 36 months with $1999 drive off. (Go to Nissanusa.com, click on vehicles>electric car & hybrid>2013 LEAF>More Local Offers and enter your zip code). Likely payments on a used car loan would be that much or more.

Leasing advantages:
Brand new car
Possibly lower monthly payments than used LEAF purchase
If you were planning on paying cash, you have the use of that cash over the next three years (less payments)
New car warranty

The single biggest advantage - offloading the burden of battery ownership to Nissan

I bought a 2011 LEAF in March of 2011. I owned it for 2 years and sold in March last year and replaced it with a 36 month lease of a 2013. I have never leased a car before, but there has never been a vehicle like the LEAF before. Why did I lease? All of the reasons cited above, but also coming to the realization that the electric vehicle market is changing much faster than the gasoline vehicle market. The technology, the competition, and the selection will be dramatically different three years from now than it is today. What kind of depreciation will you be looking at on your (then) 4-6 year old vehicle when new products offer more features, faster charging and greater range? My guess is easily what the lease payments will be over the same time frame, and likely more.

It sounds like you are not in a big hurry. If they don't have an S in stock, tell them you will take the next one that comes in or order one. Or you could decide that you want more features and go with a different trim level.

You can read more about my ownership experiences over the past 3 1/2 years with much additional research on LEAF on my blog.

Best of luck with your decision!

 

[DesertDenizen]

Drive in "ECO" mode and regenerate as much as possible. With proper anticipation, we have gotten as high as 5 miles/kWh without being an obstruction to other traffic.


My long term average is 5.2 m/kwh. Two main reasons: I use the frontage roads, not the highways, so I top out at at 45 mph. Second, I rarely use the brake, I let the regen slow me down. When feasible of course.

 

[Graycenphil]

Okay, you have certainly got me interested. I am liking the car, and loving the forum. I've looked at the used ones, and just talked to a dealer.

They are offering (assuming everything I was told is true) a 2013 S model for about $29K. Or I can lease it for $2,000 down, $200 a month with a buyout after 3 years of $12,450. Doing the math, it seems I am way better off leasing (then buying) this new one than buying a used one.

$2,000 + (36 x 200) + 12,450 = $21,650

There are lots of used ones selling for more than $21,650. Am I missing something?

I've never leased a car before. Is the buyout price guaranteed? If I go over the mileage allowance, or have body damage, I can just buy it and not have to worry about that? Anything else I should be asking or looking for?

I'm kind of tempted to just get this new car. It does not, BTW , have the QC connection, but I think has everything else I want or need. Again, many thanks.

 

[LEAFguy]

Am I missing something?

Is the buyout price guaranteed?

If I go over the mileage allowance, or have body damage, I can just buy it and not have to worry about that?

Anything else I should be asking or looking for?

I'm kind of tempted to just get this new car. It does not, BTW , have the QC connection, but I think has everything else I want or need. Again, many thanks.

I don't think you're missing anything. The buyout price is in the contract, so it cannot change.
I don't know about your third question. Just ask the dealer. It seems as if your assumption may be correct.
If you pull up the plugshare.com map again, deselect all but the brown/orange High Power Stations. Hover over them and you will see that 3 of the five are Tesla units, which you will not be able to use. If infrastructure build out in CT is anything like it is in CA, it will be awhile before you see additional QC units to use.

Go lease your new LEAF and start enjoying it!

 

[alcalira]

We have two leased LEAFs, as well as a Prius that we leased and then bought at the end of the lease because the buyback price was so low. When you buy the leased vehicle there is no inspection; the leasing company just wants the money and they don't care about the car anymore.

Because the federal tax credit is factored into the lease, it really does make sense to go with the leased new car. And at the end, you can buy the world's best used car (because you know who's been driving it and how it was treated) or, if the technology has advanced and you want the latest thing, you just drive in with the old one, fork over another down payment, and drive out with the new one.

Even if it cost more to lease the car, there's value in getting to drive a brand new car that includes warranty and roadside assistance, with the peace of mind that comes with it.

One thought: ask for a lease quote on an S with QC package (should increase the payment about $1300/36) and an SV with QC. (Note the SV does not include backup camera unless you get Premium package). You might find it worth the extra $. Having QC can enable you to take some longer trips and save more gas $.

Get the black interior. The light colored one is highly susceptible to staining.

Enjoy your new LEAF! You've done your research and you understand how leasing works.

 

[edatoakrun]

...I'm kind of tempted to just get this new car. It does not, BTW , have the QC connection, but I think has everything else I want or need. Again, many thanks.

I would suggest any potential BEV driver think carefully before buying/leasing any DC-incapable vehicle.

There is no market-based model for widespread slow public AC L2 charging, and I think the BEV-buying public will catch on within a few years, and resale values will fully reflect this reality.

Even if you are leasing, consider how much the time saved by DC will be worth to you over your lease term.

It was almost two years after I Leased, and over one year after I bought, that I first got to use DC, but the option has already come close to paying for itself, IMO.