The Volt is NOT an EV

[ColinSummers]

The fellow that was going to trademark "range anxiety" was off on his own, that wasn't a company decision.

It astonishes me the amount of discussion over what seems like rather minor points. I was disappointed right away that the Volt burnt any gas, since that meant it was not the EV2 I was hoping for. After driving it, and being unable to get the ICE to kick in even with the pedal all the way to the floor, I was impressed.

As I read it, the ICE stays off until the battery is "depleted." I like that that mark is defined in software and I hope that after a bunch of real world testing that there's a firmware 2.0 that changes where that mark is.

But, in general, this is a lot of talk about something which we will know for sure about in about three weeks. Or, at least, I will. And I'll let you know. It might be meaningless.

 

[indyflick]

Here's a pdf of the Voltec transmission patent application.

 

[EVDRIVER]

One of the things I really like about EVs over a ICE or Hybrid is that they are simple. All those moving parts and smog junk. The Volt seems very complex and assuming the pack on a Leaf and Volt keep going or are upgraded, the Volt will need much more service on the drive over time and it could also be costly if not possibly unreliable. Leaf motor has one moving part, the Volt has, well many. To me this is a big difference that is rarely mentioned.

 

[indyflick]

So what I learned today is that the Volt transmission is there to combine the power of the main motor with a smaller motor or the ICE. The smaller motor is normally your generator. However it can, under specific circumstances be combined with the main motor though the Volt transmission to create additional HP. Under other circumstances the ICE can be directly coupled to the Volt transmission and combined with the main motor to produce the Volt's aggregated drive HP.

 

[indyflick]

One of the things I really like about EVs over a ICE or Hybrid is that they are simple. All those moving parts and smog junk. The Volt seems very complex and assuming the pack on a Leaf and Volt keep going or are upgraded, the Volt will need much more service on the drive over time and it could also be costly if not possibly unreliable. Leaf motor has one moving part, the Volt has, well many. To me this is a big difference that is rarely mentioned.

Right. It's like you bought two cars - an ICE and an EV. The GM dealers service department has got to like that.

 

[EVDRIVER]

One of the things I really like about EVs over a ICE or Hybrid is that they are simple. All those moving parts and smog junk. The Volt seems very complex and assuming the pack on a Leaf and Volt keep going or are upgraded, the Volt will need much more service on the drive over time and it could also be costly if not possibly unreliable. Leaf motor has one moving part, the Volt has, well many. To me this is a big difference that is rarely mentioned.

Right. It's like you bought two cars - an ICE and an EV. The GM dealers service department has got to like that.

Not to mention the petroleum industry and the smog stations.

 

[evnow]

The fellow that was going to trademark "range anxiety" was off on his own, that wasn't a company decision.

I find that incredibly difficult to believe - knowing how large companies handle patents. Apart from that one "fellow", his manager and a bunch of lawyers would have to know and support.

Moreover, high level GM folk including the CEO have used range anxiety related FUD (your children will die if you buy BEV).

It astonishes me the amount of discussion over what seems like rather minor points.

You will see two kinds of people who are talking about it. People who never liked GM &/or Volt. Then people like me who feel misled by GM.

 

[lne937s]

The fellow that was going to trademark "range anxiety" was off on his own, that wasn't a company decision.

"Range Anxiety" trademark application was filed by:
Owner (APPLICANT) General Motors LLC LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY DELAWARE 300 Renaissance Center Detroit MICHIGAN 482653000
Attorney of Record Timothy G. Gorbatoff
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4005:gl4tf8.2.1

General Motors filed for this. Mr. Gorbatoff is the same lawyer associated with other GM trademarks, like Chevrolet, GMC, Caddilac, and 962 others- he is not some random individual "off on his own". "Range Anxiety" is one of the most recent filings. If someone in the company decided that they did not approve of this, then they can easily withdraw their application- but they didn't. GM wants to use "Range Anxiety" in marketing, wants to own the term.

And now it appears that GM is going to promote their hybrid primarily by bashing pure electric vehicles and those who drive them..
http://www.plugincars.com/chevy-will-sell-volt-more-car-electric-during-mlb-world-series-90664.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+PluginCars+(PluginCars.com+RSS+Feed)

 

[evnow]

And now it appears that GM is going to promote their hybrid primarily by bashing pure electric vehicles and those who drive them..
http://www.plugincars.com/chevy-will-sell-volt-more-car-electric-during-mlb-world-series-90664.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+PluginCars+(PluginCars.com+RSS+Feed)

Hmmm ... I wonder whether it is time to start organizing campaigns against this. I don't want my tax dollars used to bash EVs.

 

[sjfotos]

One of the things I really like about EVs over a ICE or Hybrid is that they are simple. All those moving parts and smog junk. The Volt seems very complex and assuming the pack on a Leaf and Volt keep going or are upgraded, the Volt will need much more service on the drive over time and it could also be costly if not possibly unreliable. Leaf motor has one moving part, the Volt has, well many. To me this is a big difference that is rarely mentioned.

I agree completely. I just do not see the virtue of having TWO systems on board. In addition, my purchase of an EV is to get away from the burning of imported oil and the repairs and the maintenance! Why would I piggyback an ICE engine on top of an EV?

In any event, I wish GM luck, but I think their strategy is a poor one.

 

[indyflick]

You will see two kinds of people who are talking about it. People who never liked GM &/or Volt. Then people like me who feel misled by GM.

I'm in the later camp. Over half the cars I've owned were GM and I own one now. I wanted the Volt to be a true hybrid because then there could be a roadmap to replace the ICE with a fuel cell or maybe reduce it's size and increase the size of the battery pack. But now I see the ICE in the Volt as an integral component of the platform, so it's not going anywhere. That upsets me...plus the lying.

 

[mitch672]

Why, if I wanted an overly complex battery & ICE, why I could just keep my third Prius (and generation). The Prius has been remarkably reliable, given it's complexity. The question remains unanswered, how is GM's implementation of said same and even more complex technology.

 

[LEAFer]

Not to mention the petroleum industry and the smog stations.

Try to arrive at the smog station after "accidentally" (a habit you've accumulated) fully charging your Volt's battery overnight :lol:
How now brown cow ? How ya gonna measure my emissions, buddy ? Run it full "throttle" for an hour ?

 

[mitch672]

Not to mention the petroleum industry and the smog stations.

Try to arrive at the smog station after "accidentally" (a habit you've accumulated) fully charging your Volt's battery overnight :lol:
How now brown cow ? How ya gonna measure my emissions, buddy ? Run it full "throttle" for an hour ?

there is probably a way to force the ICE on, perhaps through commands on the test connector... you have to believe GM has thought about this issue.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

the Volt does give enough EV range that many could easily go several days on EV power alone, the Prius plug in...at 13 miles, only a few could make it on that.

the fact that the Volt was altered is simply engineering finding the original plan to not be viable in extreme conditions. i wondered why the generator was so large since the batteries would not be able to take that large of a charge and now we all know why.

i dont fault them for changing the way the Volt operates in extreme conditions. but what i do question is the shrinking of the car (it was originally touted as a 5 passenger vehicle) and the price point (it was supposed to be in the $25,000 range, so ok, missing it by a few thousand i can see, but 60% more??)

so we have a situation where the spec'd design somehow passed the original engineering validation tests but GM simply could not figure out how to make it, so we add about 3 years to the development cycle (i can post links stating the Volt would be on showroom floors in spring 2008) to pretty much re-engineer the car. (i also think they had some finger-crossing hoping someone would come up with a much cheaper battery design)

granted, the financial circus GM performed undoubtedly affected the timeline for the Volt, but all in all, the car is a bit disappointing considering that this was supposed to be the flagship car to lead GM into a new era.

i test drove it, thought about posting a review, but did not really see the point. this is a Leaf forum and the Volt is a gas car. a different sort of gas car and it will be a good choice for some. its just not for me

 

[planet4ever]

You will see two kinds of people who are talking about it. People who never liked GM &/or Volt. Then people like me who feel misled by GM.

I'm in the later camp. Over half the cars I've owned were GM and I own one now. I wanted the Volt to be a true hybrid because then there could be a roadmap to replace the ICE with a fuel cell or maybe reduce it's size and increase the size of the battery pack. But now I see the ICE in the Volt as an integral component of the platform, so it's not going anywhere. That upsets me...plus the lying.

I'm not really in either camp. I grew up in a Chevy family, and I was initially very excited by the Volt. I don't, even now, feel that GM misled us intentionally. But I am very disappointed in the gold-priced egg they have laid.

Nine months ago I was sure we were going to be a Volt family, with a Prius sitting around for when we needed two cars. Instead we are going to be a LEAF + Prius family, and it is not altogether an improvement. Most days I drive less than 40 miles, but with the LEAF I will have to ask myself before I leave home, "Is there any chance I might end up driving close to 100 miles before I get back home?" I wouldn't have to ask that question if I had a Volt. There will be days when I take the Prius just to be safe. For almost all of those days I will use more gas than I would have used if I had a Volt.

 

[EVDRIVER]

the Volt does give enough EV range that many could easily go several days on EV power alone, the Prius plug in...at 13 miles, only a few could make it on that.

the fact that the Volt was altered is simply engineering finding the original plan to not be viable in extreme conditions. i wondered why the generator was so large since the batteries would not be able to take that large of a charge and now we all know why.

i dont fault them for changing the way the Volt operates in extreme conditions. but what i do question is the shrinking of the car (it was originally touted as a 5 passenger vehicle) and the price point (it was supposed to be in the $25,000 range, so ok, missing it by a few thousand i can see, but 60% more??)

so we have a situation where the spec'd design somehow passed the original engineering validation tests but GM simply could not figure out how to make it, so we add about 3 years to the development cycle (i can post links stating the Volt would be on showroom floors in spring 2008) to pretty much re-engineer the car. (i also think they had some finger-crossing hoping someone would come up with a much cheaper battery design)

granted, the financial circus GM performed undoubtedly affected the timeline for the Volt, but all in all, the car is a bit disappointing considering that this was supposed to be the flagship car to lead GM into a new era.

i test drove it, thought about posting a review, but did not really see the point. this is a Leaf forum and the Volt is a gas car. a different sort of gas car and it will be a good choice for some. its just not for me

Sure owners can use the EV miles but what everyone keeps forgetting is that as an EV the Volt is not very efficient nor is the Leaf because of weight, this is a fact. If the primary use will be the first EV miles most of the time then a lower weight EV that is more efficient and a second car or rental is a better option. Everyone talks range anxiety, the issue in an EV is energy density and efficiency. Now take the price difference between the Leaf and the Volt and use the spare change to make the Leaf lower weight and more aero and now the Leaf has much better range, add a better pack later and you are even better off. What if the Volt were a better version of the EV1 at $41K, likely it would have a very good range. I don't care how much pack you slam in an EV for range, if the weight and aero is not improved then the efficiency benefits are not there and the cost to run will be high.

 

[Spies]

Most days I drive less than 40 miles, but with the LEAF I will have to ask myself before I leave home, "Is there any chance I might end up driving close to 100 miles before I get back home?" I wouldn't have to ask that question if I had a Volt. There will be days when I take the Prius just to be safe. For almost all of those days I will use more gas than I would have used if I had a Volt.

Until we get some more real world performance and efficiency numbers about the Volt and Leaf I would not assume in the scenario you just described that you would use more gas over all. If I was doing this comparison I would also include the electrical energy used as well and not just the gas.

 

[smkettner]

..... Everyone talks range anxiety,.....

No I think that is just GM that talks about range anxiety. This is probably what doomed the VOLT as an actual EV project. Nissan CEO has no range anxiety, only GM.

 

[DaveEV]

Most days I drive less than 40 miles, but with the LEAF I will have to ask myself before I leave home, "Is there any chance I might end up driving close to 100 miles before I get back home?"

I think that you'll find as quick charge stations start popping up, it won't be an issue. Fill up a bit for 10 minutes (should get you 20-30mi range if 30 min gets you 80 mi) and away you go. Minor inconvenience, but shouldn't be a big deal if it rarely happens.