LEAFfan
Well-known member
wwhitney said:
Congratulations Wayne!
EV Project or AV?
What date/time did you reserve?
The September 8th - Ordering now open - Check your dashboard
- Thread starter LakeLeaf
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Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:
Congratulations Wayne!
EV Project or AV?
What date/time did you reserve?
daniel
Well-known member
At this point, delivery dates can be no more than estimates, even from Nissan itself. I gather that they will not even begin production for a couple more months. Murphy's Law is a bitch. Of course people can walk away after ordering, and people who need the car by a certain date, and who make that known to their dealer, could walk away with a clear conscience. And if the first cars delivered do not live up to promises, let's say people are finding a real-world range of 60 miles tops, later buyers would be justified in walking away.mwalsh said:
I've been driving on electrons for over 3 years, and if I decide not to get the Leaf, I'll still be driving on electrons. I just won't be driving as nice a car. -- Unless the Leaf fails to meet the promise.prberg said:
Of the questions I have asked the Leaf customer service line or live chat, probably 3/4 have been answered with "I'm sorry. I don't have that information." Of the questions that were actually answered, about half the answers have turned out to be wrong, or were contradicted by other answers the same customer service line gave to the same question.Kataphn said:
Yes, I believed you....just wanted to see what sort of consistency of answers were being provided by Nissan. Also many folks seem to believe that their order timing effects their delivery date. It appears it does not!However, I still feel that divining what is in the mind of Nissan is like reading tea leaves since we never got a FAQ list on this whole process from them!
In other words, the information we get from Nissan is unreliable.
LakeLeaf
Well-known member
There are some people who are really dedicated to getting a pure EV. For that group, most are likely to be forgiving of the ordering process and any delay in delivery.
There are others who are looking for a modest cost car that minimizes it's overall CO2 footprint and use of foreign oil. With the DOE report that came out a few weeks ago, the conclusion seems to be that 60-70MPG is a pretty similar CO2 footprint to a pure EV - and better then pure EV in some parts of the country that use a lot of coal to produce electricity.
The PHEV Prius is supposed to come out "some time in 2012" which no one knows if it means 2012 calendar year or model year. However - it appears that the Prius PHEV is pretty much completed as it has already been in extensive beta testing. Reports are that the car will average about 70 MPG for the average driver. It has about 12 miles of pure electric power. There is an additional CO2 footprint to charge up those 12 miles, of course, so an apples to apples comparison gets complicated. Recent reports are that Prius sales are beginning to slow - which might put pressure on Toyota to bring the PHEV to market sooner then later. If Toyota is ready early and Nissan experiences significant delays with the Leaf - there may be a whole slew of people who decide the Prius PHEV is a better fit. So it seems that Nissan has a fairly small window in which they need to deliver significant numbers of Leafs if they want to take a Leaf vs. Prius PHEV buying decision off the table.
For some, it won't matter as they have already made the decision to get the first Leafs. For lots of others, Nissan may find that folks don't show up at the dealer to pick up their Leaf if the program runs into any real delays or quality issues. JMHO
There are others who are looking for a modest cost car that minimizes it's overall CO2 footprint and use of foreign oil. With the DOE report that came out a few weeks ago, the conclusion seems to be that 60-70MPG is a pretty similar CO2 footprint to a pure EV - and better then pure EV in some parts of the country that use a lot of coal to produce electricity.
The PHEV Prius is supposed to come out "some time in 2012" which no one knows if it means 2012 calendar year or model year. However - it appears that the Prius PHEV is pretty much completed as it has already been in extensive beta testing. Reports are that the car will average about 70 MPG for the average driver. It has about 12 miles of pure electric power. There is an additional CO2 footprint to charge up those 12 miles, of course, so an apples to apples comparison gets complicated. Recent reports are that Prius sales are beginning to slow - which might put pressure on Toyota to bring the PHEV to market sooner then later. If Toyota is ready early and Nissan experiences significant delays with the Leaf - there may be a whole slew of people who decide the Prius PHEV is a better fit. So it seems that Nissan has a fairly small window in which they need to deliver significant numbers of Leafs if they want to take a Leaf vs. Prius PHEV buying decision off the table.
For some, it won't matter as they have already made the decision to get the first Leafs. For lots of others, Nissan may find that folks don't show up at the dealer to pick up their Leaf if the program runs into any real delays or quality issues. JMHO
wwhitney
Well-known member
Not EV Project, I scheduled an AV assessment for late October, rather than deal with the AV waiver right now. I will cancel the AV appointment after my quote is completed. Reservation date definitely 4/20, time unknown, I wasn't so obsessed back then.leaffan said:
Cheers, Wayne
evnow
Well-known member
daniel said:
They are supposed to start production in October - some 3 weeks from now.
Ofcourse the delivery dates will be estimates - we won't know whether they are optimistic or conservative estimates until the first cars start getting delivered.
I was looking at the build months for my Focii this weekend. One was built in January and was on the dealer's lot for sale in March. The other was built in August and was sold in October (manual transmission and probably sat on the lot longer because of it). Of course these are cars built in the US, so no overseas shipping. But that should be some kind of clue as to how long it takes to build and deliver. Anyone else got any anecdotal evidence, maybe even with a Nissan?
LEAFfan
Well-known member
mwalsh said:
Supposed to be 4 mos., so if you order late Aug., and that's legitimately your place, it should be delivered in Dec.
daniel
Well-known member
Here in WA all my electricity is hydro: Zero carbon. So for me the above gas/EV comparison does not work. And even if it did, I just have this thing about gasoline: I don't like it. But since I already drive an EV, buying a Leaf is less about switching from gas to electricity, and more about upgrading from a small, primitive, low-speed EV to a full-on freeway-capable family sedan EV.LakeLeaf said:
And since there is a carbon footprint to the manufacture of a new car, the lowest-carbon choice I could make would be to not buy a Leaf.
I still cannot order, which is good, since I'm still pondering...
LEAFfan
Well-known member
daniel said:
Besides using renewables in the car itself, didn't it say somewhere that Nissan was using a lot of renewable energy to build the cars or was that just going to be in TN?
evnow
Well-known member
leaffan said:
Must be TN. Nissan corp moved to a green HQ last year ....
evnow said:leaffan said:Kataphn said:Kat, I told you that very same thing a long time ago. Didn't you believe me?
There are some problems with believing in that.
We know that not all people who have reserved will order. So, is Nissan going to wait for them to order before processing the people who reserved later but have ordered ?
We know that Nissan will start manufacturing the cars as ordered. When will they start the manufacturing ? Will each car have a "name on it" as it gets manufactured or do the cars of the right trim get assigned to individuals are the manufacture ?
The easiest way to answer all this is that the cars will be manufactured and delivered in the order the cars are ordered. Ordering itself is opened in the order in which reservations are done (except apparently with certain exceptions).
I remember Nissan promising early during reservation that people whose link didn't work (so they had to work with support people to reserve) would still not miss out their place in the queue. If we accept "The delivery of the LEAF will be based ion timing of reservation" - then that earlier promise has not been kept. In 3 months will they still adhere to reservation order or will they go to ordering order ...
That's ok, everyone can believe what they want, but it makes total sense and much more fair not to 'punish' the people that would have had earlier order dates if the ECOtality or AV thing was in order. Those certain exceptions seem to be many. I think it is more than what people realize. And I never remember Nissan promising anything earlier, other than the reservation date/time being the factor for delivery.
JMO, but of all the questions customer support seems to have no clue about (I have been the recipiant of several), one thing has been consistent - delivery will be based on the time of reservation. I now beleive this means after your $99 cleared. So I conclude:
-- There is alread a reservation number attached to each LEAF that will be manufactured (i.e. all reservation numbers are already assigned to a car).
-- They will be built in reservation order based how they were configured on the website
-- Placing an actual order allows the configuration to be fine tuned for the final manufacturing
-- Dormant web site account (no activity) will get deleted, and if no one complains, that reservation number becomes an orphan.
-- Orphan reservations will get shipped to the region (based on zip code of reservation) and sent to the dealers, divided up based on how many accepted orders (sales) the dealer has made. (Explains why dealer are motivated to get LEAF orders, even below invoice.)
Well, this is how I would do it if I were in charge! :mrgreen:
evnow
Well-known member
Long4Leaf said:
My CC shows a charge on 27th. But I ordered on 1st.
LEAFfan
Well-known member
Long4Leaf said:
I asked Nissan about what date they go by and it isn't the date the deposit cleared, but the date/time of reservation. I reserved on 4/20 around 3 PM MST/PDT, but it didn't clear my credit union until 4/28.
Timaz
Well-known member
Posted the article in another thread, but there are only 200 vehicles that are supposed to be delivered in December and those were all sold on 8/31. May be a couple trickled through on 9/1, but the rest of the deliveries will take place next year.
LEAFfan
Well-known member
Timaz said:
If we are to believe that all 200 were sold on 8/31, then dealers, the Nissan Supervisor, and ECOtality are all lying about it.
My Account is still a mess.... on the Dashboard, my reservation number is missing from my account still (along with no check mark next to Complete,) my assessment area is blank, and Customer Service still states it comes from the fact that I started a cancellation but didn't finish it (which even if I had (I hadn't) it goes to show how pooched their software is.....
In spite of that:
Reservation 4/20 around 4pm PST (AMEX issues aside)
Email for RAQ: 09/08 12:36pm
RAQ Sent: 09/08 02:13pm
Quote received back from dealer and "accepted." 09/08 02:52pm
Order confirmation 09/08 03:32pm
In spite of that:
Reservation 4/20 around 4pm PST (AMEX issues aside)
Email for RAQ: 09/08 12:36pm
RAQ Sent: 09/08 02:13pm
Quote received back from dealer and "accepted." 09/08 02:52pm
Order confirmation 09/08 03:32pm
evnow
Well-known member
FilmMixer said:
LOL. In my case the dashboard was fine - they just didn't schedule me ... till I complained.
leaffan said:
I should have said when the charge was approved, not cleared. This is because there seemed to be some inconsistency/delay (hours, not days) for some who entered orders on 4/20. But maybe there were so many reservations being made that processing them got backed up. What is your order date?
daniel
Well-known member
I think you make a questionable assumption, that "there is alread[y] a reservation number attached to each LEAF that will be manufactured..."Long4Leaf said:
It would make more sense to give each customer a priority number. If the customer places an order within some set time (many reservation holders will not!) then that customer's car will be built in the order established by her/his priority. If the customer does not order within the time frame, she/he looses the place in line, and perhaps is dumped out of the early-order process. This way there are no "orphan cars." Your way, there could be as many orphan cars on dealer lots as early-order cars for early-order customers, and people willing to pay dealer mark-ups could have a Leaf before most of the people on this list.
Here's how I think it will work:
You get an opportunity to place an order based on when you reserved, with a large number of bugs in the system resulting in some people being able to order earlier, and others being pushed later. If you get your order in early enough, you'll keep your reservation-based priority, with a large number of bugs resulting in some people getting promoted or demoted in the priority list. If you complain, they'll make a half-hearted attempt to fix the bug, which might or might not be successful. When production begins, each car will be assigned to the next person on the priority list and configured accordingly, with a large number of bugs resulting in some people falling off the list and maybe a few people getting promoted up the list with no discernible system. If people walk away from the purchase, either the region will assign the car to a favored dealership, or the dealer may have the opportunity to choose to keep the car to sell or trade it to another dealer or return it to the region.
That's my guess.
Of course, it's also possible that just as certain regions get to order first, they make give production priority to certain sub-regions. E.g. they might build all Los Angeles cars before starting on the Seattle cars, and postpone all Spokane cars until after all coastal region cars, or some such arrangement.
We don't know because they've never said. This would violate the delivery-priority promises they've been making, but it would not surprise me.
This statement surprised me, since Tennessee is a big coal state. But I googled it and apparently the TVA is building green energy capacity. I could not tell how much from a quick perusal.leaffan said:
Yeah, I knew the "orphan" concept was kind of a stretch, but I still think it is a good idea.
I know it is pure speculation, but what is your guess on the percentage of reservations that become actual orders. My guess >95%.
As for cars that are ordered but but are not picked up (customer decides he does not want it, or can not get financing), a dealer I talked to said they then get the car, which he said he would be happy to take.
I know it is pure speculation, but what is your guess on the percentage of reservations that become actual orders. My guess >95%.
As for cars that are ordered but but are not picked up (customer decides he does not want it, or can not get financing), a dealer I talked to said they then get the car, which he said he would be happy to take.
