The Leafs battery costs 5.900€ (7.700$)

[Weckel]

At last we know the cost of a new battery for the Leaf, something that nissan has been hidden all this time, they costs 5.900€, because that is the difference of the car with battery and the car with leasing battery, but this is with the European tax (specifically in Spain), in America they should be less that 7.700$.

 

[TomT]

Actually, that would be the manufacturer's cost... Retail would likely be higher.

At last we know the cost of a new battery for the Leaf, something that nissan has been hidden all this time, they costs 5.900€, because that is the difference of the car with battery and the car with leasing battery, but this is with the European tax (specifically in Spain), in America they should be less that 7.700$.

 

[pchilds]

Actually, that would be the manufacturer's cost... Retail would likely be higher.

Looks like retail to me. :roll:
The $7700 is the retail difference between battery and no battery. Manufacturer's cost would be less, if they want to stay in business.

 

[reeler]

On the purchase you get to keep the battery, but on the lease you do not. Beyond the price difference, you have to account for that. I bet outright purchase without the obligation to return the battery will be more.

I wonder if you do the lease, could you buy a battery from a junk yard and terminate the lease.

 

[adric22]

It has been my experience that directly converting euros to dollars does not give an accurate price. For example, if you convert the MSRP of a Leaf from YEN or Euro over to Dollar, you do not get an accurate price of what the Leaf sells for in the USA. Usually it is much more expensive.

Having said that.. I would assume the $7,700 figure to be a ceiling of sorts.. meaning I suspect the cost will be less than this.

 

[Weckel]

On the purchase you get to keep the battery, but on the lease you do not. Beyond the price difference, you have to account for that. I bet outright purchase without the obligation to return the battery will be more.

I wonder if you do the lease, could you buy a battery from a junk yard and terminate the lease.

For now nissan not allow in the future to cancel the leasing battery contract and place a battery from another supplier, although it is possible that future nissan changed my mind.

It has been my experience that directly converting euros to dollars does not give an accurate price. For example, if you convert the MSRP of a Leaf from YEN or Euro over to Dollar, you do not get an accurate price of what the Leaf sells for in the USA. Usually it is much more expensive.

Having said that.. I would assume the $7,700 figure to be a ceiling of sorts.. meaning I suspect the cost will be less than this.

right, usually something that in America costs 2.000$ in Europa costs 2.000€ due to taxes.

 

[Stanton]

Thanks for the data point; definitely passes the "sniff test". Also doesn't make it impossible to hit a $5k number a couple of years down the line with local (US) production facilities and higher volumes.

 

[edatoakrun]

We (hopefully) have only a few more months to wait for the "Spring" US battery pack trade in price announcement.

I wouldn't be surprised if it were anywhere between $5,000 to $10,000. We just don't know either what it costs to produce a LEAF battery pack, what the value of a used battery will be on the repurposed market, or how Nissan will choose to use the battery replacement price to influence LEAF resale values.

BTW, if high temperature is as significant a factor in early capacity loss as many on MNL seem to believe, and high temperatures really reduces the time to EOL capacity (~70%) from ~10 years to only several, it sure sounds like Nissan must have established the policy of subsidizing the southerners by offering the same monthly lease rate in Spain or Sicily, as it does in Norway.

 

[Herm]

It looks like $5k might be possible for Tennessee re-manufactured pack, with core return. Factory refurbishment with used cells seems like a possibility also, if they have enough used and tested modules on hand, you would want all the cells in a pack to be somewhat matched in capacity ... the weakest module will determine the overall pack capacity.

 

[Stanton]

It looks like $5k might be possible for Tennessee re-manufactured pack, with core return. Factory refurbishment with used cells seems like a possibility also, if they have enough used and tested modules on hand, you would want all the cells in a pack to be somewhat matched in capacity ... the weakest module will determine the overall pack capacity.

This is (one) huge benefit of buying a Nissan EV: battery inventory (used/new/tested) resulting from their significant investment in localized battery production. Even if I didn't like the car (which I obviously do), this would have "sealed the deal" for me (along with a nation-wide service network) when buying into new technology.

 

[TomT]

No, think of it this way. I buy a given option with a car and it costs me $1,000. If I go and buy the same option retail from a dealer later, it will cost me many times more...

Actually, that would be the manufacturer's cost... Retail would likely be higher.

Looks like retail to me. :roll:
The $7700 is the retail difference between battery and no battery. Manufacturer's cost would be less, if they want to stay in business.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

It looks like $5k might be possible for Tennessee re-manufactured pack, with core return. Factory refurbishment with used cells seems like a possibility also, if they have enough used and tested modules on hand, you would want all the cells in a pack to be somewhat matched in capacity ... the weakest module will determine the overall pack capacity.

wow, i hope not. that is way too much money

 

[thankyouOB]

It has been my experience that directly converting euros to dollars does not give an accurate price. For example, if you convert the MSRP of a Leaf from YEN or Euro over to Dollar, you do not get an accurate price of what the Leaf sells for in the USA. Usually it is much more expensive.

Having said that.. I would assume the $7,700 figure to be a ceiling of sorts.. meaning I suspect the cost will be less than this.

battery is worth more in Europe, where gasoline is priced and taxed to INCLUDE its externalized costs; as opposed to the US, where we subsidize gasoline health impacts and pollution via the commons.

 

[TimLee]

Interesting data point, $331 per kWh, although as others stated, the Euro to $ conversion does leave significant uncertainties about the $ per kWh.
Several publications in the past 1 1/2 years quoted lithium ion battery cost at $300 to $600 per kWh, and noted that actual production cost was probably in the $400 to $500 range. But that with too many manufacturers and an oversupply situation that some producers were likely selling at a significant loss in the low $300 range.
Could it be that Nissan in pushing to be the leader in the new electric vehicle arena is also "selling"/"leasing" the battery at a loss?
Will be interesting to see if that carries through on their replacement battery price, although I am doubtful
I agree with Dave that if it turns out to be $5000, not very many LEAF owners will be very happy, and the comments on the Battery Survey thread reflect this.
In my case as a 6000 miles per year 2011 LEAF owner, $5000 is on the low end of my savings of using electricity instead of gasoline, when the battery will likely reach 70% end of life in 7 years with 45,000 miles on the vehicle.
That will make the LEAF cost for the seven years about the same as an ICE. :shock: :shock:
Driving using electricity is great , but with the range constraints of the vehicle, if its cost turns out to be about the same as an ICE, I and most LEAF owners won't be near as happy as we might have been . And that same cost will have been with Federal subsidy of $7500, state subsidy of $2500, and Federal subsidy of the L2 EVSE of $1200 to $2000.

 

[thankyouOB]

Interesting data point, $331 per kWh, although as others stated, the Euro to $ conversion does leave significant uncertainties about the $ per kWh.
Several publications in the past 1 1/2 years quoted lithium ion battery cost at $300 to $600 per kWh, and noted that actual production cost was probably in the $400 to $500 range. But that with too many manufacturers and an oversupply situation that some producers were likely selling at a significant loss in the low $300 range.
Could it be that Nissan in pushing to be the leader in the new electric vehicle arena is also "selling"/"leasing" the battery at a loss?
Will be interesting to see if that carries through on their replacement battery price, although I am doubtful
I agree with Dave that if it turns out to be $5000, not very many LEAF owners will be very happy, and the comments on the Battery Survey thread reflect this.
In my case as a 6000 miles per year 2011 LEAF owner, $5000 is on the low end of my savings of using electricity instead of gasoline, when the battery will likely reach 70% end of life in 7 years with 45,000 miles on the vehicle.
That will make the LEAF cost for the seven years about the same as an ICE. :shock: :shock:
Driving using electricity is great , but with the range constraints of the vehicle, if its cost turns out to be about the same as an ICE, I and most LEAF owners won't be near as happy as we might have been . And that same cost will have been with Federal subsidy of $7500, state subsidy of $2500, and Federal subsidy of the L2 EVSE of $1200 to $2000.

you make some good points about the federal and state offsets.
that said, it would seem worthwhile for many -- and I for one would certainly choose to own and operate an EV if the costs were equal to ICE.
moreover, it is a further incentive to be solar.

 

[adric22]

Will be interesting to see if that carries through on their replacement battery price, although I am doubtful
I agree with Dave that if it turns out to be $5000, not very many LEAF owners will be very happy, and the comments on the Battery Survey thread reflect this.
In my case as a 6000 miles per year 2011 LEAF owner, $5000 is on the low end of my savings of using electricity instead of gasoline, when the battery will likely reach 70% end of life in 7 years with 45,000 miles on the vehicle.

I guess my difference of opinion stems from two things. First of all, the price of a Chevy Volt battery is $3,000. Most people seem satisfied with that. The Leaf has roughly twice as much usable Kwh as the Volt. So you'd think $6,000 would be acceptable. $5,000 even more so.

The second thing is that I don't consider 70% to be end-of-life. It might be for some people who depend on a full battery charge to commute to work and back. But I think the Leaf would still make a good car for me even at 40% capacity. I knew this going into it from the beginning. I wouldn't have bought the car if I thought it might not get me to work and back after a few years of battery degradation.

 

[vegastar]

5900€ for Europe, including taxes, is a acceptable price. I make 28000 km/year and around 2000€ saved in fuel per year. A payback time of 3 years is OK for me.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

my thoughts are any price involving an exchange must take into consideration degradation, mileage and age along with the existing warranty replacement option which provides replacement options after 30% degradation (more or less which is a bit too much for my taste. 25% would be better)

due to this there would be distinct groups of people needing various levels of SOC to make their LEAF work for them.

I would look at something like $2000 being the minimum cost to account for people who want an exchange at the first sign of range loss. This will discourage them from that...or not.

I also see most falling into the category of paying around $2500-$3500 and those would be people with 15-25% degradation and at least 3 years of driving (AZ not considered) and more likely 5-7 years.

then there will be a smaller group who will run their pack down to the 50-60% range. They will benefit most because guessing by then they might be able to turn in that 24 kwh pack for something bigger.

(As part of the EV Marketing Focus Group, I have zero hard facts on this subject. Only fantasies of what I consider "the right thing" to do)

 

[smkettner]

At last we know the cost of a new battery for the Leaf, something that nissan has been hidden all this time, they costs 5.900€, because that is the difference of the car with battery and the car with leasing battery, but this is with the European tax (specifically in Spain), in America they should be less that 7.700$.

Not sure this is really comparable as either way you need a battery preinstalled by Nissan.
More or less "cost" could be appropriated to the battery for price and marketing conditions and then make up for it with the lease payment.
Often easier to sell the payment than the price.

 

[jumpjack]

At last we know the cost of a new battery for the Leaf, something that nissan has been hidden all this time, they costs 5.900€,

So 6000€ for batteries, 15000€ for car... and 15000€ for Research&Development, I guess. :?
But don't lithium batteries cost 0,50€/Wh? (i.e. 12000 € for Leaf)