The forgotten Sept/Oct orders

[daniel]

Just my opinion, but I don't think anything anybody at Nissan tells us can be considered reliable. They will indeed ship our cars... eventually. For some of us, that will mean early-productions cars built with defects, with considerable repair work having been done, yet priced as new cars and delivered months after the cars that were ordered much later and built right the first time. Buyers down the line will know that these are inferior cars, and will be willing to pay less for them at sale or trade-in time, and yet we never got the benefit of having the cars to drive during these five months since the cars were built and originally promised to us. The earlier delivery time is the reason for ordering an early-production unit of a new car.

I bought my Prius in January of 2004, knowing there was a chance of early-production problems, because it meant I had the car to drive a year earlier than if I had waited to buy a 2005 model year. But in the case of the Leaf, I get all the disadvantages of an early-production car, and none of the added-driving-time benefit. And on top of that, I have no idea how it's been stored for these two idle months in port, whether mice have been chewing on the brake lines, or crickets have been nibbling on the wiring. I am not competent to check all these things before I take delivery. And after all the lies and empty promises, I no longer believe anything Nissan tells me.

I'm not willing to cancel my order, but I am very wary of this car. I feel none of the confidence that I felt in the case of Toyota.

 

[LEAFfan]

There was a “glitch in the system” that originally delayed the orders and then after the Earthquake some orders were “eliminated” and then later restored.
Brad

That 'glitch' was some moron/s/incompetent programmer/s or order personnel that should be fired! There is absolutely NO excuse for leapfrogging Jan./Feb. orders ahead of the Sept./Oct. orders. And now I'm disappointed with Brendan Jones because he told me my LEAF would be delivered NO LATER than today(Sat.), but it's been delayed AGAIN! I've never dealt with an auto company so unreliable as Nissan.

 

[stanley]

LEAFfan, There are so many steps that Brendon can`t control (delivery people etc) that it could get delayed a little. My experience is that when he promises something he does everything he can to make it happen

 

[daniel]

Well, as expected, my "week of June 3" was another promise broken by Nissan. Today my dashboard changed to "week of June 17." The silver lining is that there's a 50/50 chance that the electric Porsche may be done by then, or at least done enough to test-drive, which will help me decide whether I still want to buy the Leaf. The Leaf will undoubtedly be the more reliable car, and the more utilitarian car. But with the Prius as a backup (since I still need something for road trips) the occasional trip to the shop for the Porsche would not be a disaster. And the Porsche is already paid for, other than the last few hours of labor.

Way to go, Nissan! Keep delivering those February cars while mine sits for another two weeks in port waiting until that unreliable old railroad finally decides to have a train leave Long Beach! Ha! Do they really think we are stupid enough to believe our cars are waiting for transport, when February cars continue to be delivered???

The fact that February cars CONTINUE to be delivered, while September and October cars CONTINUE to languish, even still today, is proof that NONE of the excuses hold any water. Lost orders? Shortage of parts? Shortage of add-ons (the only ones I ordered were floor mats and mud flaps, the latter being required in my state, according to my dealer)? If these excuses were valid, they would not STILL be delivering February orders while ours languish.

But, like I say, maybe for me this will all be for the best. If I get to drive the Porsche and find out whether or not it will perform as hoped, I may decide not to buy the stupid Leaf at all. (As originally delivered, the Porsche had the acceleration of a VW Bug after 20 minutes of driving had overheated the speed controller. The new speed controller will be water-cooled and have double the amperage. But it remains to be seen if the LiFePO4 battery pack has a low enough impedance to deliver the amperage demanded by the new controller.)

 

[derkraut]

Well, as expected, my "week of June 3" was another promise broken by Nissan. Today my dashboard changed to "week of June 17." The silver lining is that there's a 50/50 chance that the electric Porsche may be done by then, or at least done enough to test-drive, which will help me decide whether I still want to buy the Leaf. The Leaf will undoubtedly be the more reliable car, and the more utilitarian car. But with the Prius as a backup (since I still need something for road trips) the occasional trip to the shop for the Porsche would not be a disaster. And the Porsche is already paid for, other than the last few hours of labor.

Way to go, Nissan! Keep delivering those February cars while mine sits for another two weeks in port waiting until that unreliable old railroad finally decides to have a train leave Long Beach! Ha! Do they really think we are stupid enough to believe our cars are waiting for transport, when February cars continue to be delivered???

The fact that February cars CONTINUE to be delivered, while September and October cars CONTINUE to languish, even still today, is proof that NONE of the excuses hold any water. Lost orders? Shortage of parts? Shortage of add-ons (the only ones I ordered were floor mats and mud flaps, the latter being required in my state, according to my dealer)? If these excuses were valid, they would not STILL be delivering February orders while ours languish.

But, like I say, maybe for me this will all be for the best. If I get to drive the Porsche and find out whether or not it will perform as hoped, I may decide not to buy the stupid Leaf at all. (As originally delivered, the Porsche had the acceleration of a VW Bug after 20 minutes of driving had overheated the speed controller. The new speed controller will be water-cooled and have double the amperage. But it remains to be seen if the LiFePO4 battery pack has a low enough impedance to deliver the amperage demanded by the new controller.)

Hey Daniel......I think you forgot to take your meds.

 

[daniel]

Hey Daniel......I think you forgot to take your meds.

Why? Because I point out that Nissan's excuses are bogus? Because when I'm lied to and treated like dirt I get angry? If you enjoy taking meds to make yourself happy when you are kicked around, more power to you. As for me, I speak my mind.

Or maybe you cannot offer rational replies to my arguments against the Nissan apologists' excuses, so all you can do is accuse me of needing meds. (Which in fact I do: I have to take meds for my thyroid and my cholesterol; and no, I have not forgotten to take them recently.)

 

[LEAFfan]

LEAFfan, There are so many steps that Brendon can`t control (delivery people etc) that it could get delayed a little. My experience is that when he promises something he does everything he can to make it happen

That's neither here nor there. If he had said, "I'll TRY to get it delivered by Sat." then no problem, but he said it would be here this week. I believed him (my wife didn't) and once again, was lied to. Sorry, I'm not going to be able to ever trust Nissan again.

 

[daniel]

I agree with LEAFfan: When you make a promise you are putting your honor on the line. Nissan has demonstrated that it has no honor. If you are going to make an effort to do something, you promise to make an effort. You don't promise that you will make something happen if you do not have the ability to make it happen. When you promise to make something happen, there is an implied promise that you are able to make it happen. You don't promise, and then blame someone else, or "unforeseen circumstances."

All we get from Nissan are lies and broken promises. I used to believe in Nissan. I don't anymore.

I used to work for an agency that was part of a larger umbrella organization and which provided free services to the poor. They operated mostly on grants from private foundations and some government money. Back around the year 1999 or 2000 they made a decision to give raises to their upper-level staff, which they did by using their emergency fund, on the assumption that the following year's grants would replenish the fund. But the following year was a bad year for charitable giving and not only could they not replenish the emergency fund, but they were unable to hire people for critical positions. Of course they blamed the economy, and never took personal responsibility for the irresponsible decision to spend the emergency fund on a non-emergency. "We couldn't have known that charitable giving would drop," they said. But that's what an emergency fund is for! They squandered their safety net.

Nissan is blaming circumstances outside their control, but if they had not chosen to divert early production away from the U.S., or if they had not chosen to contract cheap (incompetent) programmers for the ordering, we'd have had our cars a long time ago. And then rather than admitting their bad decisions, they decide to bury us in lies and empty promises. And, without admitting their motives, they decided to push the February orders out ahead of the September/October orders, because the good will of the February people could still be salvaged, while the September/October people had by that time lost all faith in Nissan and Nissan figured they lose nothing by essentially giving up on us as potential future customers. It's called "cutting your losses." But without the common decency to admit it.

 

[brad]

Today my dashboard changed yet again (3 times in 3 days). This time it went from "Week of June 9" to "week of June 15"

Brad

 

[derkraut]

Hey Daniel......I think you forgot to take your meds.

Why? Because I point out that Nissan's excuses are bogus? Because when I'm lied to and treated like dirt I get angry? If you enjoy taking meds to make yourself happy when you are kicked around, more power to you. As for me, I speak my mind.

Or maybe you cannot offer rational replies to my arguments against the Nissan apologists' excuses, so all you can do is accuse me of needing meds. (Which in fact I do: I have to take meds for my thyroid and my cholesterol; and no, I have not forgotten to take them recently.)

Hey Daniel....I apologize if I have offended you. I didn't mean to get you even more upset than you already are; my comment was meant to be "tongue-in-cheek". Actually, I agree with almost everything you've said here; but, there's really nothing you can do about it (except to cancel your order, I guess). :roll:

 

[evnow]

60 orders in Sept/Oct that had received a “double hit”. There was a “glitch in the system” that originally delayed the orders and then after the Earthquake some orders were “eliminated” and then later restored.

I wonder whether some Leafs actually got damaged in the earthquake ...

 

[evnow]

That 'glitch' was some moron/s/incompetent programmer/s or order personnel that should be fired! There is absolutely NO excuse for leapfrogging Jan./Feb. orders ahead of the Sept./Oct. orders.

Hmmmm ... so a software bug is not a valid "excuse" ?

 

[daniel]

Thanks Derkraut. Apology accepted. I won't cancel my order just yet. I'll wait until it gets here (in the unlikely event it ever does) and then decide. But I do think it's important to refute the excuses some folks are giving. I think Nissan should be held responsible, and the only thing I can do toward that end is to show folks how the excuses don't hold water.

BTW I did email Brendan on Friday, and got an email back the same day from Brian asking me for my phone number, which I supplied. I expect him to call next week and promise me another delivery date, or maybe explain that my car got "lost" again. But with the electric Porsche nearing completion (maybe another week or two) I'd just as soon the Leaf not get here until I've driven the Porsche. If the Leaf had come in December as promised, I'd have had a half a year of it being my sole EV (as I'd have sold the Xebra). But if they're going to come at the same time, I'd just as soon have some time with the Porsche first, as that will help me make up my mind about the Leaf.

I've been waiting four years (since I got the Xebra) to get a freeway-capable EV. Now, to have two showing up almost on the exact same day (as seems possible now) is very frustrating. Especially when both of them are delayed so far beyond when they were promised. (The Porsche was promised a year and a half ago, and the Leaf half a year ago.) OTOH, if the Leaf disappears again for another couple of months, which would not surprise me in the least, I'll be glad to have the Porsche.

 

[electricfuture]

My wait has been 18 months although my deposit was April 2010. Dash board updated to June 14. I have confirmed with the dealership that they have a stock number !!!! I expect to get the car this week ahead of (Nissan's) schedule.

 

[daniel]

My wait has been 18 months although my deposit was April 2010. Dash board updated to June 14. I have confirmed with the dealership that they have a stock number !!!! I expect to get the car this week ahead of (Nissan's) schedule.

Hey, I've been waiting for a full-on electric car since I got my Xebra four years ago, and I know folks who've been waiting for an electric car since the 90's when GM turned down numbers of people as "unsuitable" for the EV1. But Nissan originally promised to deliver 4,700 Leafs to the U.S. in December, so it's only since January 1 that those us us who ordered in September, October, and maybe November have been "waiting" beyond the promised delivery time.

But good luck. I hope you get your car.

 

[LEAFfan]

60 orders in Sept/Oct that had received a “double hit”. There was a “glitch in the system” that originally delayed the orders and then after the Earthquake some orders were “eliminated” and then later restored.

I wonder whether some Leafs actually got damaged in the earthquake ...

Those 60 'lost' orders had NOTHING to do with the quake/tsunami. They were all manufactured BEFORE the quake and arrived in LB Mar. 22, which means they left Japan BEFORE the quake. :roll:

 

[LEAFfan]

That 'glitch' was some moron/s/incompetent programmer/s or order personnel that should be fired! There is absolutely NO excuse for leapfrogging Jan./Feb. orders ahead of the Sept./Oct. orders.

Hmmmm ... so a software bug is not a valid "excuse" ?

OMG! Get real! The so called 'lost' orders happened waaaay before the software problem. The lack of parts, firmware upgrades, and some pollen cars just made the 'lost' orders problem worse.

 

[Packet]

But I do think it's important to refute the excuses some folks are giving. I think Nissan should be held responsible, and the only thing I can do toward that end is to show folks how the excuses don't hold water.

I don't think anyone here is trying to make excuses on behalf of Nissan. Speculation or explanations aren't excuses; those suggesting reasons this could happen are trying to make sense of it, and the tale related a while ago of what the supposed issues that have delayed things are /do/ make sense as to how the delays could have arisen.

Now, even if it /explains/ the situation, it doesn't /excuse/ the way Nissan has handled it.

But there's a difference between "they had a number of issues come up, but have mishandled it and miscommunicated things to a degree that people have been burned" and "they have no honor and are actively and maliciously fucking with us for their own amusement." It's quite possible for a company to mishandle stuff incredibly badly, and not figure out a way to make things right with customers, without being actively /malicious/ where they're sitting in the boardroom going, "I know, let's **** with them more!" and cackling maniacally.

There's a question of intent; I don't think Nissan /set out/ to screw up the orders. They've just seemed completely unable to /fix things/ in a satisfactory way for those affected, if that makes sense. Doesn't excuse it, but doesn't imply intent either. Incompetent customer service rather than actual active evil.

 

[daniel]

I never used the F word.

I also never said that Nissan set out to screw things up.

What I've said is that they made a DECISION to break their promise on 4,700 cars to the U.S. in December, based on considerations that they regarded as more important than honor or the sanctity of their word. Then they concealed their decision and covered it up with lies. Then the delay was compounded because they had previously decided to cut corners and hire the cheapest people they could find to write the order-processing software, rather than committing the funds necessary to do it right. Then rather than fix that problem, they just decided to go with the screwed-up software.

The fact that they have re-assigned some cars shows that they can re-assign cars; yet when it was brought out that they were filling February orders months ahead of September/October orders, they CONTINUED to assign new VINs to February orders rather than re-direct the available cars to the earlier orders. My presumption, previously stated, is that they made a corporate decision that the still-unfilled early order people had by this time lost all faith in Nissan and could not be alienated more, whereas the February order people's good will could still be salvaged. I'm sure they did not say "Let's screw with the early order people." What I believed they said was, "Let's cut our losses by filling the orders of those people whose good will we can still salvage, and accept that the early order people who are still waiting are never going to buy from us in the future anyway, so there's no need to get cars to them until we can figure out what became of their cars, which is now a low priority."

I don't believe they INTENDED to screw up the orders. I believe that having screwed up the orders due to bad faith, incompetence, and cost-cutting, they then lied about it and gave up on us, concentrating instead on satisfying customers whose orders had not been screwed up.

 

[Packet]

I don't believe they INTENDED to screw up the orders. I believe that having screwed up the orders due to bad faith, incompetence, and cost-cutting, they then lied about it and gave up on us, concentrating instead on satisfying customers whose orders had not been screwed up.

I don't think anyone's actually of the opinion that Nissan has handled this remotely /well/, or that their handling of the lost orders is excusable.

You gave the impression -- at least to me while I read, and I got the impression that you did to several others as well -- that you thought it was active and intentional malice towards the people whose orders had been messed up. That they made a conscious decision to screw those folks over. If that wasn't your intent, then I apologize for the misreading, but that was the impression I got reading your posts.

I personally feel it's more more likely that they screwed up and don't seem able to figure out how to fix it in a timely or clean/fair manner, so have just decided to clam up and stop communicating.

Sadly, as someone who used to live in Japan as a kid... this strikes me as not a terribly uncommon behavior for Japanese companies. They'll apologize endlessly and at length for things that are in no way their fault or within their control, but when something actually is their fault -- or within their control in some way -- and doesn't have a quick fix, they'll just go utterly quiet for a long while rather than admitting anything. (See also: Sony's initial response to the PSN hacking and resulting downtime, or TEPCO's reluctance to actually share any information on Fukushima Dai-ichi.)