The forgotten Sept/Oct orders

[Steve]

If you want to see how the other half lives, go sniff around the Volt forums to see how GM is interacting with their customers. From the CAB onward, it has been a demonstration of how yes, even a large car company can do things a new way.

I'm guessing their satisfaction survey results look a little different than Nissans. Just a hunch.

I have no qualms about REAMING Nissan North America Sales any time someone asks about the Leaf experience and whether they should get one. I use the lowest marks in surveys, from JD Powers to Nissan's and whatever gets sent my way, and tar the whole company with the same brush.

Yeah, but they have to drive a Chevy.

 

[daniel]

... But what I keep wondering is what exactly did you guys expect? ...

Honesty.

They're actively, intentionally lying? I haven't experienced that. I've dealt with miscommunication and some misinformation personally, but nothing lead me to believe that it was intentional. I'm not going to get too worked up about some miscommunication with a world-wide project of this scope. But you're saying that it someone intentionally, specifically lied to you? Serious allegation, and if it happened to me, I'd be upset, too.

Pretty much every time I phone CS or use their on-line chat, I am told something that conflicts with what I was told the last time. An occasional mistake is one thing, but when everything they tell you turns out to be wrong, and appears to be designed for no other purpose than to placate you for a few more days or weeks, then I am willing to call it intentional. Whether the CS reps know the truth and are lying, or are passing on lies that were told to them, is irrelevant, because either way, Nissan is responsible. Based on postings on this forum, it seems like 3/4 of the members have had the same experience.

The most recent was when they told me, a month ago, that my car was cleared for shipping and would go out the following week, but two weeks after that they told me it was still awaiting transport. Am I supposed to believe that for an entire month there has not been a single train from Long Beach to Portland? (Since my car has apparently not been shipped yet.) At one point I was told that my car was waiting to be cleaned of pollen, but another member told me in a PM that Brendan told him on the phone that none of the blue cars were affected. One or the other of those statements is a lie. A couple of months ago I was told that my car was in Portland and would arrive here within the week, but that was another lie because later I was told that was not my car.

Intentionality can be inferred when there is a consistent pattern of behavior, and in Nissan's case the behavior of telling customers things that turn out to be untrue is very consistent. Intentional telling of untruths is the definition of lying.

 

[LEAFfan]

We know each other? We must. Surely after one post you wouldn't jump to conclusions about a person whom you've never met, implying things that aren't true, insulting and generally acting rudely. But what I keep wondering is what exactly did you guys expect? This is the bleeding edge of the rollout. More than just the rollout of a new car, this is the rollout of an entirely new line of automobile coupled with the rollout of an entirely new infrastructure.
Regarding communication, there are many schools of thought on this. If they are continuously coming out, making promises and telling us that everything's okay, wouldn't you guys be bitching about how defensive they sound? My experience is that some people are going to complain, and nothing will change that.

Jump to conclusions? I read your post so I know what you said. Nothing like calling the kettle black? I fail to see any insults or acting rudely on my part. That's YOUR interpretation. I just responded to your rude and insulting comments about the so called 'complainers'. Based on what you had posted, my comments stand as true. Maybe you misunderstood the comment about "Love it or leave it." That is what you were basically saying in your post inferring that people shouldn't "complain", just go on and be quiet and your question, "...what exactly did you guys expect?". So please take a look in the mirror before you accuse others of what you have done.

 

[daniel]

At one point I was told that my car was waiting to be cleaned of pollen, but another member told me in a PM that Brendan told him on the phone that none of the blue cars were affected.

I must retract part of my post. The member referred to above clarified to me that Brendan didn't tell him blue cars were unaffected, rather that blue (and red) cars cleaned up better than other colors.

However, if the chemical used for cleaning did not completely remove the clear coat and damage the paint, it would not matter what color was underneath. So it would appear that what's really happening is that the new touch-up paint used on the blue and red cars matches the original color better than that used on other cars, which still suggests the possibility of underlying damage, and that none of the pollen cars now has a factory paint job. They may LOOK fine, but they now have an inferior paint job. They are damaged cars. And to now sell them at MSRP without disclosing the true extent of the damage is dishonest! I will not pay MSRP for a damaged car.

 

[BlueSL]

Daniel, I'm not sure if you have tried this (or what the outcome was), but direct communication above CS seems to work better than any communication with CS. It certainly got me my car -- blue with gorgeous paint that I inspected rigorously.

Email Brendan Jones your phone number. Explain your predicament and ask him to call you. It seems to work.

 

[xtremeflyer]

Daniel, I'm not sure if you have tried this (or what the outcome was), but direct communication above CS seems to work better than any communication with CS. It certainly got me my car -- blue with gorgeous paint that I inspected rigorously.

Email Brendan Jones your phone number. Explain your predicament and ask him to call you. It seems to work.

daniel doesn't want a resolution, he just wants to continue to bash Nissan and talk about how great he is that he has a Porsche EV coming.

 

[davewill]

daniel doesn't want a resolution, he just wants to continue to bash Nissan and talk about how great he is that he has a Porsche EV coming.

Tell me about it. The part that's funny is that anyone with even an ounce of pride would refuse to buy from a company as "evil" as daniel thinks Nissan is. Makes every post a joke as far as I'm concerned.

 

[PDXKraut]

daniel doesn't want a resolution, he just wants to continue to bash Nissan and talk about how great he is that he has a Porsche EV coming.

Tell me about it. The part that's funny is that anyone with even an ounce of pride would refuse to buy from a company as "evil" as daniel thinks Nissan is. Makes every post a joke as far as I'm concerned.

Can't speak for Daniel, but I see it as follows:
1) Bold, courageous move by Nissan to lead on mass-market EVs; no question about it; if you want EV (for green, or national security, or ... reasons), this is the best thing out there (for most people/wallets);
2) Delivery process and customer service are beyond sub-par; I can understand just about any level of frustration, but that doesn't mean that you won't love the car. I don't want to spend a lot of time on semantics, but if you consistently and repeatedly, over several months, make promises that you don't deliver on (both on delivery times and more mundane items, such as "I will call you back within a day", "My supervisor will call you back", "I will ensure that the IT guys will contact you about ..."), you'll have to live with people being frustrated, no matter if you want to call it dishonesty, lying, deception, or the apparent lack of any concern for your customer.

 

[Steve]

Jump to conclusions? I read your post so I know what you said. Nothing like calling the kettle black? I fail to see any insults or acting rudely on my part. That's YOUR interpretation. I just responded to your rude and insulting comments about the so called 'complainers'. Based on what you had posted, my comments stand as true. Maybe you misunderstood the comment about "Love it or leave it." That is what you were basically saying in your post inferring that people shouldn't "complain", just go on and be quiet and your question, "...what exactly did you guys expect?". So please take a look in the mirror before you accuse others of what you have done.

"We judge others by their behavior. We judge ourselves by our intent." Ian Percy.

If you're sincerely interested in raising issues for the good of future customers, I'll take your word for it, and apologize. What I am hearing you say is you are complaining out of a genuine desire to improve service for other people. Noble intentions, if true.

I'll just reiterate what I said earlier. I've seen the machine move slowly, and there've been some setbacks, but on a project of this magnitude I'm not all that surprised. I've been on the list for over a year now. I've been anxious and at times frustrated, but I am much more concerned with finding a quality dealer that will take care of me for years to come and ending up with the product I want at a price I'm happy with. So far, it looks like that might happen.

I am interested in hearing more about your situation, if you're inclined. What would make you happy at this point? What I mean is what, if anything, could Nissan USA do to repair the experience for you? Also, since you're all about process improvement, what lessons learned do you think Nissan will be able to take away from this initial rollout that will help future customers?

And again, if you've already answered this in the thread, just point me to it. I understand I'm joining the conversation late.

 

[Steve]

Can't speak for Daniel, but I see it as follows:
1) Bold, courageous move by Nissan to lead on mass-market EVs; no question about it; if you want EV (for green, or national security, or ... reasons), this is the best thing out there (for most people/wallets);

Agreed! And I'd go further to suggest that any company making such an effort should be applauded. Also, anyone who is willing to put up with the trials of being on a cutting edge movement and adjust to life with an EV is equally bold and courageous and should be applauded. I believe that everyone here is interested in actively changing things for the better. No one on these boards could possibly be "love it or leave it" types, simply by virtue of taking a bold step by purchasing a car virtually sight unseen with a drivetrain that relies completely on an infrastructure that is in its infancy.

2) Delivery process and customer service are beyond sub-par; I can understand just about any level of frustration, but that doesn't mean that you won't love the car. I don't want to spend a lot of time on semantics, but if you consistently and repeatedly, over several months, make promises that you don't deliver on (both on delivery times and more mundane items, such as "I will call you back within a day", "My supervisor will call you back", "I will ensure that the IT guys will contact you about ..."), you'll have to live with people being frustrated, no matter if you want to call it dishonesty, lying, deception, or the apparent lack of any concern for your customer.

Agreed, although my experience hasn't been consistent, repeated promises. I have, if anything, been subjected to the silent treatment. I would follow up every couple of months, but mostly, time marched on with no word at all. This might be why I'm less upset.

 

[JPVLeaf]

daniel doesn't want a resolution, he just wants to continue to bash Nissan and talk about how great he is that he has a Porsche EV coming.

I ordered 9/10/10. My car was delivered to my door 6/6/11. So, delivery was just short of 9 months to the day of ordering! I got my VIN back on 3/9/10, so yeah my car was in port for more than two months. I had my share of status chats with CS, and 'elevations' to CS supervisors. I experienced every range of 'where-the-heck's-my-car' emotion. I was affected by just about every delay for cars that were lucky enough to have arrived in LB pre-earthquake+tsunami: AC software fix, multiple accessory holds, and multiple 'waiting for railcar' delays. The latter was due to my own decision to order from out-of-state, and probably added another 3 wk delay. Though, since I had anticipated that this last one might delay my delivery about 2 wks, it wasn't that far off.

Having said all that, it was a crazy ride. It was after my last call with a CS supervisor whose smugness and you'll-get it-when-you-get-it attitude pissed me off. I politely told him off ... He apologized, and noted he'd change his 'tone' in future calls. He offered to email me with updates ... blah blah. Perhaps coincidentally, perhaps not, I started reading about how helpful this CS supervisor was very soon later that day.

Well, all to say that it was after that CS call ...and reading some of the more 'vindictive' posters here, most if not all of whom ordered days, weeks and months after me, that I began to think 'why the heck am I letting myself get all worked up about this?' Though you don't want to hear it when you've already waited 8 months since ordering, Nissan is trying to get these cars out as quickly as possible ... Even if they are not flying out of port as quickly as we would all like, especially your own car.

Even though I too had reached the point of wondering if I even wanted this car anyways because the delays had 'soured' the anticipation and excitement, I can now say don't worry about it. As others have said, once your car arrives, it's surprising how quickly it all fades from memory. If you don't trust that, then you may be better off not getting the car.

I know I'm very happy after the looonng 9-month wait. Right now, I'm sitting waiting for my car to get tinted. I'm a happy Leaf owner. If anyone else has reached the 9-month mark from the date of RAQ/ordering, then you can b#%^* to me.

 

[daniel]

Daniel, I'm not sure if you have tried this (or what the outcome was), but direct communication above CS seems to work better than any communication with CS. It certainly got me my car -- blue with gorgeous paint that I inspected rigorously.

Email Brendan Jones your phone number. Explain your predicament and ask him to call you. It seems to work.

I have done that. Brendan or Brian seem to phone back those few people whose cars are already on the way. They have not phoned me back.

 

[ttweed]

I am interested in hearing more about your situation, if you're inclined. What would make you happy at this point?
...And again, if you've already answered this in the thread, just point me to it. I understand I'm joining the conversation late.

Steve,
Just go back to Page 23 of this thread and read forward to page 25 and you will see that a $5K discount on their cars would satisfy both Daniel and LEAFfan:

How about it, Nissan? Take $5,000 off the price of my car and I'll consider that you've done the honorable thing, and I'll stop complaining, and accept this whole mess as incompetence rather than criminal malfeasance and greed.

Wow. That's a very revealing statement.

Why? When there is malfeasance or fraud determined by a court, the court typically awards monetary damages.

I must have missed the press release about Nissan's court conviction for malfeasance and fraud in the Leaf rollout.

I would love to see Nissan give Daniel a $5K discount on the condition that he go back and delete every vituperative post he has made about the company's character and ethics on MNL. At least he'll earn his money that way.

TT

 

[Steve]

Steve,
Just go back to Page 23 of this thread and read forward to page 25 and you will see that a $5K discount on their cars would satisfy both Daniel and LEAFfan:

How about it, Nissan? Take $5,000 off the price of my car and I'll consider that you've done the honorable thing, and I'll stop complaining, and accept this whole mess as incompetence rather than criminal malfeasance and greed.

I must have missed the press release about Nissan's court conviction for malfeasance and fraud in the Leaf rollout.

I would love to see Nissan give Daniel a $5K discount on the condition that he go back and delete every vituperative post he has made about the company's character and ethics on MNL. At least he'll earn his money that way.

TT

$5000??? Yeah. That would make me happy, too. But is that reasonable or practical? I'll go back when I get some time and read from page 23, as you suggest. Thanks!

And... ouldn't that have to go through the dealer? I mean, the dealer ultimately sets the price. Right? Can Nissan USA force a dealer to lower their asking price? I honestly don't know either way.

 

[daniel]

daniel doesn't want a resolution, he just wants to continue to bash Nissan and talk about how great he is that he has a Porsche EV coming.

Insult me all you like. Sticks and stones, and all that. I'm not one to take crap silently. What I WANT is an electric car that will go faster than 35 mph and farther than 40 miles. I bought the Porsche for conversion two years ago and I'm still waiting. I ordered the Leaf 7 months ago, when they were promising it would take 3 months from order to delivery, and I'm still waiting. Nissan has treated us like crap, and yes, I'm pissed. You may think that Nissan is the greatest thing since sliced bread but I say a company that treats its customers like dirt is dirt.

I stood up for electric transportation and put my money on the line when the best thing available was a little three-legged clown car that goes 35 mph and struggles to get up steep hills. When plenty of folks here wouldn't consider electric until EVs had the speed and power and luxuries of a high-end family sedan. And that little car has been my daily driver for four years and still is. So don't go spewing nonsense about what I do or do not want.

 

[daniel]

the dealer ultimately sets the price. Right? Can Nissan USA force a dealer to lower their asking price? I honestly don't know either way.

Car companies offer incentives and rebates all the time. Nissan USA can give a rebate to anyone they like without ever affecting the deal between dealer and customer. There's no reason for the dealer to lower his price and I would not ask it of him. But "my" car, assuming it actually exists and has not been lost for the third time, was defective out of the factory, and then damaged in shipment, and supposedly repaired, and then left sitting in port for another month (so far) after "repairs" were finished. I would not pay full price for a car that had been damaged and repaired, if it was sitting on the lot. If Nissan had an ounce of honor, it would cut the price of those cars by giving a rebate to the buyers. But then, if it gave a hoot about its customers it would have been up front and open with us about the reasons for all these delays. They are delivering cars now that were not even built until after they decided to sidetrack our cars into this morass. Without significant compensation, I will not buy the damaged car. I really do not believe Nissan cares whether I buy a car from them, now or ever. I am one person and they have millions of customers. But if they do want me to buy a car, they'll have to stop treating me like dirt.

 

[JPVLeaf]

Don't know why Nissan would owe Mr. D a dime unless they also offered the same to every 'jumped over' Sept, Oct, Nov and Dec order that was offset due to later non-orphan buyers. Now, that would be cool ...but, it won't happen.

Personally, I thank Mr. D and a certain Mr. Late-Jan 2011 orderer for showing me how/where I didn't want to go with my own frustrations ... spewing out every over-the-top negative comment and thought about the process, etc.

While I certainly agree with 'squeaking' your way to resolution/satisfaction, this other stuff often has the opposite effect.

 

[lonndoggie]

I have done that. Brendan or Brian seem to phone back those few people whose cars are already on the way. They have not phoned me back.

To refute your assertion:

My car was stuck at the port since late March. Emailed Brian Friday. Brendan called me an hour or so later. He looked at my situation, and swapped the VIN I'd been staring at for over two months for another (pulled from a fleet order, not a consumer), as mine had the somewhat mysterious "port hold" status, which means it needs...something. Which could be quick, or not (so far, it's been over two months of "not", so Brendan thought best to do a swap, and, fortunately, found one that was swappable without serious repercussions).

My dash changed from 4/22 -> 6/14 last night, and my second VIN showed up.

Got the "your car is almost here" email today.

Expecting The Call soon.

So, it does work. But it probably helps to email them with a reasonable tone, which I certainly did. Given your posts here, I wonder if that's possible for you; it certainly would be inconsistent, and you're a man of principle.

In any case, good luck, I truly hope you (and everyone else stuck in this thread) get your individual car situations worked out damn soon; it's been too long.

 

[ttweed]

I'm not one to take crap silently....Nissan has treated us like crap, and yes, I'm pissed.... So don't go spewing nonsense about what I do or do not want.

Do you want to get your Leaf delivered, or do you just want to make hundreds of venomous posts on this forum that will do you no good other than to vent your anger?

I have done that. Brendan or Brian seem to phone back those few people whose cars are already on the way.

And you just did that when--a few days ago, last week, maybe? Dude, that information about who to contact at Nissan USA corporate has been on this forum for months. I was in nearly the same situation as you back in March. I got no help from phoning CS so I escalated my concerns. Brendan called me out of the blue, and I can guarantee you that my car was not on it's way already, since the car he got us within two weeks was another color than what we ordered, but that was fine. We've been driving it for two months now.

You have one of the top 3 most screwed up deliveries I have ever heard of on this forum, Daniel. If you had used your energy in putting together the clues from what others have posted here and escalated your problem directly to someone who could actually do something about it two months ago, instead of making demeaning and angry posts every day, in multiple threads, you would have had your car (or a suitable replacement) delivered by now. It can be done. It worked for me and it has worked for others in the "forgotten Sept./Oct. order" group. Frankly, if I was a Nissan executive and I saw the depth and breadth of your posting history here, including the absolutely mean-spirited, ad hominem attack you made on Nissan employees in the June deliveries thread, which you later retracted, I would be calling Long Beach and telling them to lose your car at the back of the lot for at least the next 6 months.

TT

 

[Steve]

I don't know whether anyone here has a background in retail or sales, although I'd presume some do. Hopefully, you guys find it helpful.

There's an entire discipline within sales called CRM or Customer Relationship Management, which includes as just one small part research on customer types, including some types of customers who are destructive to a business. These customers, whether they actually spend money or not, can end up costing more in the end.

Somewhere around the 90's, the idea that "the customer is always right" started getting challenged by major retailers. Relevant to this thread, there are a few archetypes.

• The Customer who has an answer for everything. In other words, this is the customer who can do your job and everyone else's, all the way from CEO down, better.
• The Customer who is abusive. While honest emotion, particularly if it's reasonable, is one thing, there are people who don't hesitate to show their Mr. Hyde side.
• The Customer who is never satisfied. This one is self explanatory.

There are several others, but these are three very common "types."

Point is, if you aren't being treated well by a company... could be anyone, don't just presume your case is systemic. If your cost to a company, whether in manhours, product, rebates or even simply frustration, outweighs the potential long term gain to the company, it's probably better that you part ways.

Now, don't misunderstand this. I'm not saying that this idea means that a company shouldn't take care of its customers. It's actually the opposite. The company, by breaking up with bad customers, can focus its time and energy... and money, on the customers they are pursuing as their base.