The forgotten Sept/Oct orders

[lisaleaf]

Ttweed, thanks for sharing your info. with us. I'm not sure if I feel better or worse now. I haven't been rude to the CS people either, but wish they were actually given the proper tools to assist people. Even prior to the earthquake, I have never had any issues resolved.
Well, maybe Nissan will learn from this experience.



Red SL
Reserved 4/20/10
Ordered 10/30/10
Delivery May(be)??

 

[ttweed]

One question: Did you happen to get clarification as to whether the delivery sequencing was based on "RAQ" date or actual order date? In my case (and possibly others), it makes a few weeks' difference...

I heard quite specifically that the production sequencing begins with the date the owner accepts the quotation from the dealer, NOT when one is invited to "Request A Quote." RAQ has been used sort of interchangeably here on the forum, which is not very rigorous, as the important date seems to be when you "AAQ" (Accept A Quote). In my case, RAQ and AAQ were the same day, Oct 1, as I had already met with my selected dealer and talked about pricing prior to my RAQ date. All I had to do was send the request, which was received and the quote sent out in hours, and I accepted it the same day. If you were unfortunate enough to be out of town, or stymied by an unexpected situation with your PD, forcing you to change dealers or otherwise delay accepting the quote, I think this could create a corresponding delay in your production sequencing. This speaks to the need to be proactive before receiving the RAQ, if possible, and reaching a prior understanding with a dealer before the time comes, getting that "legwork" out of the way and insuring a smooth ordering transaction. I actually took that advice after hearing it from someone else on this forum prior to my order date, and there was no delay at all. YMMV.

That said, even if you lost a week before you were able to accept your order, I think that there is at least that much slop in the production sequencing process. The cars do not get built in perfect linear order, just as the VINs are not perfectly sequential coming out of the factory. They are "roughly" in order, but I'm sure they are batched in ways that we don't understand, in the same way we don't understand the way they are loaded and unloaded from boats (FIFO or LIFO at each end?) and then port-prepped and delivered to the dealers. All in all, I imagine there could probably be a 2-3 week swing in delivery dates between two different cars ordered on the same day, due to these logistical variations, so it's probably not important to sweat a few days lost on ordering. Your car might make it up sometime later in the process, or lose a little more down the line. The luck of the draw...

That's my $0.02, and worth just what you paid for it,
TT

 

[ttweed]

Well, maybe Nissan will learn from this experience.

I think that is very true. They are learning every day, as they go along, and this is a new experience for everyone involved, fraught with enough pitfalls even before the tragedy struck. Now, everything has been "kicked up a notch" and amplified even more. The executive I spoke with did admit that they knew the software and web interface were still buggy and needed development, and that there have been communication failures and coordination problems with their partners that could have gone better, but I felt they are sincerely committed to the goal of mainstreaming EVs ASAP and to continue improving the process they selected to introduce this first one. There are good and bad aspects to it, as there are in all things. It's been a bumpy road, but the end result will be worth it, I hope.

TT

 

[Boomer23]

Tom, congratulations on having worked politely through the process and escalating your concerns to someone who could take action. And thanks for sharing what you've found in a detailed way for the benefit of others.

Though I was able to RAQ and "AAQ" on the morning of September 3 and I've received the "delivery in 7 days" email, I have been very interested in learning the reasons for and the outcome of the forgotten Sept/Oct orders. I guess I have a strong sense of what I consider fair and a bit of a crusading spirit when I hear about unfairness or ineptitude in a process such as this. I realize that may sound way overboard to someone who has not followed this fascinating LEAF process for a year, as we have, and who has been so involved with it on a daily basis. I know that I have begun to sound pretty obsessive to my patient wife, since I am rarely more than a few minutes away from a comment about LEAF or the forum. That obsessiveness has prompted at least one forum member to call us "ninnies" and recommend that we get a grip. Fair enough. But I'm glad to hear that the issue is now recognized within Nissan management and that they are working hard, despite limited resources, to resolve the issues to the satisfaction of those of you involved.

It is also very interesting to hear through you from Nissan that deliveries are mostly based on date of order. That was what my dealer told me, basically that the date and time that the order is placed in Nissan's computer will dictate the build sequence. I do wonder about the deliveries that have taken place many weeks before mine though the orders were placed later than mine, but I guess the vagaries of color, dealer and region are responsible for part of that. Not a huge deal for me,it turns out, assuming I take delivery in the next week or two, as is expected.

As someone else said, both we AND Nissan will benefit from a better understanding of these issues among the early adopter group.

 

[planet4ever]

That said, even if you lost a week before you were able to accept your order, I think that there is at least that much slop in the production sequencing process. The cars do not get built in perfect linear order, just as the VINs are not perfectly sequential coming out of the factory. They are "roughly" in order, but I'm sure they are batched in ways that we don't understand, in the same way we don't understand the way they are loaded and unloaded from boats (FIFO or LIFO at each end?) and then port-prepped and delivered to the dealers. All in all, I imagine there could probably be a 2-3 week swing in delivery dates between two different cars ordered on the same day, due to these logistical variations, so it's probably not important to sweat a few days lost on ordering. Your car might make it up sometime later in the process, or lose a little more down the line. The luck of the draw...

I think you are probably right for later orders, Tom, but it didn't start out that way. According to the spreadsheet, most people who ordered on Aug 31 got their cars in January; most who ordered on Sep 1 got theirs in February; and no one who ordered on Sep 2 got a car before March.

Please forgive me for being slightly bitter about the fact that I would have had an Aug 31 RAQ except that I had to work around two website bugs back on April 20, and I did have a Sep 1 RAQ which I submitted promptly, but my dealer sat on for 24 hours even though we had arranged the deal ahead of time. It now looks as if I may not get my car until late April, and I'm not alone. If the spreadsheet is to be believed, there are at least 19 of us who ordered on Sep 2 but are still waiting for our cars. (And apparently a few who ordered even earlier.)

Ray

 

[garygid]

Part of our role in this Dress Rehearsal is to help find the bugs in the process.

Soon our memories will be erased, and we will try again,
and most of the remaining bumps will be identified ... etc.

Eventually, I hope we will get it done well enough
such that we will not need to be "terminated".

So, keep trying, and huge thanks to all those here and in Japan
who have given much, or even their "all", to help
save this improbable blue planet.

 

[Boomer23]

Part of our role in this Dress Rehearsal is to help find the bugs in the process.

Soon our memories will be erased, and we will try again,
and most of the remaining bumps will be identified ... etc.

Eventually, I hope we will get it done well enough
such that we will not need to be "terminated".

So, keep trying, and huge thanks to all those here and in Japan
who have given much, or even their "all", to help
save this improbable blue planet.

Nice, Gary. That's like a poem.

 

[jcesare]

They are "roughly" in order, but I'm sure they are batched in ways that we don't understand, in the same way we don't understand the way they are loaded and unloaded from boats (FIFO or LIFO at each end?)

I believe it is LIFO. I saw a news report years ago that detailed the process. The ships are RORO (Roll On Roll Off). There is team of precision drivers and spotters. They drive the cars into the bowels of the ship. They line the cars up like Disneyland at Daytona. Since time is money, it happens at relatively high speed and extreme precision. Each car pulls in seconds after the first parks and the driver exits. The result is that the cars are packed only a few inches apart and it is impossible to open the car door on any car expect the last one in on the row. To unload the process is reversed. The speed and precision was pretty impressive. Maybe the video is available somewhere. I'd like to see it again.

 

[ttweed]

I believe it is LIFO. I saw a news report years ago that detailed the process. The ships are RORO (Roll On Roll Off). There is team of precision drivers and spotters. They drive the cars into the bowels of the ship. They line the cars up like Disneyland at Daytona. Since time is money, it happens at relatively high speed and extreme precision. Each car pulls in seconds after the first parks and the driver exits. The result is that the cars are packed only a few inches apart and it is impossible to open the car door on any car expect the last one in on the row. To unload the process is reversed.

Yes, I remember hearing about this previously here, and it may be very true and an accurate picture of the way the cars go on and off the ship. However, there are still a couple of "wildcards" in the equation that could affect the order in this operation, namely how the cars are staged for shipment in whatever yard they end up in after coming off the line and being loaded on the ship, plus how they are processed in the staging area they land in after being unloaded in Long Beach. The combination of these factors might either reverse the order, keep it the same, or further randomize it in some unanticipated way. I consider this level of detail "unknowable" for us from our level of visibility of the process, and have put it out of my mind as a consideration. Even for the "obsessive ninnies" here, this detail of the process may remain a mystery.

TT

 

[ttweed]

I think you are probably right for later orders, Tom, but it didn't start out that way. According to the spreadsheet, most people who ordered on Aug 31 got their cars in January; most who ordered on Sep 1 got theirs in February; and no one who ordered on Sep 2 got a car before March.
[snipped]
If the spreadsheet is to be believed, there are at least 19 of us who ordered on Sep 2 but are still waiting for our cars. (And apparently a few who ordered even earlier.)

Ray,
You are right, and possibly this indicates another anomaly in the process. Could it be related to the shift in manufacturing to the JDM that occurred around that time? It seems plausible that maybe the US orders were interrupted right around the time of the Sept. 2 sequencing to insert the run of RHD vehicles for the domestic market before the threatened expiration of the Japanese federal subsidy. I am just speculating here, which is the major "sport" on this forum, but your analysis does seem to identify the "gap" or "hiccup" in the US production/delivery process that might correspond to that known event, which helped push us all back from a 3-4 months delivery timeframe to 4-7 months for the early orders. The early Sept orders seem to be a mishmash of March and April deliveries, and the analysis depends on the accuracy and currency of the data. I hope everyone will continue to update their entries as the rush of changes from the current shipments arriving in Long beach shakes out. It could be a valuable tool, but GIGO is a factor. I can see errors all over the place in it.

YMMV,
TT

 

[Beachcliffs]

As usual, I am a couple of steps behing ttweed and trentr. But, based on the chat transcipt below (warning: lengthy), it looks like I should be hearing something by Monday.

The following transcript is being shared for informative reasons for others that are still being left in the dark. As the full transcript will take up a decent amount of space, first here is my summary charcterization of Nathan's responses:

PLACATE - dodge - placate - placate - placate -placate - dodge - delay - PLACATE - dodge - POSITIVE ACTION - affirmative action.

Also, please note the very last note after I left the session (not sure why he included that in the e-mail transcript).

Full Transcript (other than ommitting last name to protect the privacy of the not-so-innnocent, no other changes including typos):

Nathan: Thank you for contacting Nissan LEAF Customer Support, my name is Nathan. How may I help you today Mark?

Mark: Please a) look uo my account and b) forward a transcript to me via e-mail (I did not notice the check box when I logged in).

Mark: "look up"

Mark: I am wondering if you folks can give me any new information today? Other people in a similar circumstance to my own are reporting receiving phone calls directly from Nissan NA with more details about their particular situations as well as the overall issue of folks with late January and early February orders "jumping over" us folks with late September / early October order dates.

Nathan: Mr. YYYY, I have accessed your account, looks like your delivery date is in the month of May. Congratulations!

Nathan: I'm sorry Mr. XXXX.

Mark: That is not new information and I have received a generic e-mail indicating that the May delivery might change. Can you confirm that May is still likely?

Nathan: Because of the earthquake in Japan, future impact on Nissan LEAF supply continues to be assessed.

Nathan: May is still likely though.

How can that be if my car has not already been shipped?

Mark: Can you confirm that my car was on either Andromeda Spirit or Luna Spirit?

Nathan: It wouldn't be shipped till about 2 weeks before your final delivery date.

Mark: That is not correct information as it takes to two weeks to cross the Pacific and then the cars stay in the port for 3 - 4 weeks

Mark: It is then another week or so at the dealer

Mark: Is there a method of "elevating" my request for a) more specific information regarding my car and b) an explanation of why people who ordered in late January / early February are reporting havig April delivery dates and VINs while all you can give me is very nebulous information?

Nathan: Believe me when I say, I understand your frustration. However, beyond the information you received via e-mail, we do not have any additional information at this time. Please know we are doing everything we can to expedite the delivery of your LEAF.

Mark: Pleae understand that the lack of specific information makes it very hard to accept "Please know we are doing everything we cant to expedite the delifery of your Leaf" at face value.

Mark: Please also understand the frustration of not receiving responses to perfectly reasonable requests for information about the apparent inequity in the delivery process.

Nathan: Please do understand, we know how frustrating this is. We are sharing the information with you (the customers) just as soon as we get it in.

Mark: Also, why are other people getting e-mails with more specific information while I only received a very generic e-mail indicating that the tragedy might effect my delivery timing and then also asking for a donation to the cause.

Nathan: The only reason someone would get more specific information is if they are closer to delivery.

Mark: No - people have reported receiving e-mails that their cars are either a) not yet shipped or b) have been shipped. I have not received such an e-mail

Mark: Can you, or can you not help me get to someone with better information than you have at your disposal?

Mark: Also, please confirm that I will be receiving a transcript of this chat via e-mail

Nathan: Mr. XXXX if you could give me just 1 or 2 minutes I am searching for some more information to help answer your questions.

Mark: Thank you.

Nathan: Good news. What I was able to find out for you is that you were not one of the people whose car was scheduled for production and cancelled because of the earthquake.

Nathan: Unfortunately, there is no available information on the exact status of your LEAF. As soon as that becomes available, you will be contacted.

Mark: Can you, or can you not help me get to someone with better information than you have at your disposal?

Nathan: Unfortunately, there is no additional information available.

Mark: Can you, or can you not help me get to someone with better information than you have at your disposal?

Nathan: Mr. XXXX , I was just informed that someone is looking into your vehicle disposition and will contact you by Monday.

Mark: Thank you. Really seems silly that we had to go through all of the above when
I asked you to research my record at the beginning of this chat.

Mark: Lastly, please confirm that I will be receiving an e-mail of this chat.

Nathan: You will be receiving an e-mail of our chat promptly.

Nathan: Is there anything else I can help you with today Mr. XXXX ?

Mark: Great. Thank you. Such direct responses truly are appreciated.

Mark: Have a good day.

Nathan: You have a great day and thank you for contact Nissan LEAF customer support.

Mark: Good bye

Mark has left the session.

Additional comments will be added to the log, but will not be seen by the customer.

 

[gascant]

Sounds like they get a lot of training on the placate and dodge strategies.
If I do not hear something by Monday (48 hrs after Luna Spirit has left dock), I will attempt same.
Luckily those of us in the forgotten orders category don't have to post daily delivery week changes :lol:

 

[TimLee]

Being in the May(be) group and having heard nothing from Nissan, I feel the same angst over the Nissan order filling Snafu as everyone else.
May(be) a little less than the overlooked Sept/Oct orders, as I ordered 11-19-2010.
But there are people with January orders that have a VIN # and week of April delivery that leapfrogged my order too.

Maybe a little levity and humor will help.
Try the following link:

https://www.drivenissanleaf.com/Win/Vot ... R5T69GM2AH

If you like the video and find it humorous, vote for us to win the Leaf!!

Tim and Rebecca Lee

 

[ttweed]

Yippie! After escalating my concerns through Customer Service over my seemingly "lost" order, I now have a "week of April 14, 2011" delivery date, have activated Carwings, and appear to have a VIN. My case is perhaps anomalous, as anyone who has read my postings may know, but it shows that changes are coming, and I hope you all will be getting some happy news soon!

Off to change my sig file and update my spreadsheet entry.
Hang in there!
TT

 

[Beachcliffs]

Yippie! After escalating my concerns through Customer Service over my seemingly "lost" order, I now have a "week of April 14, 2011" delivery date, have activated Carwings, and appear to have a VIN. My case is perhaps anomalous, as anyone who has read my postings may know, but it shows that changes are coming, and I hope you all will be getting some happy news soon!

Off to change my sig file and update my spreadsheet entry.
Hang in there!
TT

Congrats to you! It is very good to see, and clearly I am hoping that your situation is not an anomoly.

No such luck on my dashboard, yet anyway.

 

[supernoman]

Yippie! After escalating my concerns through Customer Service over my seemingly "lost" order, I now have a "week of April 14, 2011" delivery date, have activated Carwings, and appear to have a VIN. My case is perhaps anomalous, as anyone who has read my postings may know, but it shows that changes are coming, and I hope you all will be getting some happy news soon!

Off to change my sig file and update my spreadsheet entry.
Hang in there!
TT

I too hopes it's not an anomaly. Still in the month of May as of this writing.

 

[Deleted member 770]

... and appear to have a VIN.

Tom: Did you happen to check that VIN against the spreadsheet to see if yours is new or was "reappropriated" from a later, mis-input order?

In any case, good for you...I'm glad your perseverence paid off. Now if we could just get some assurance that Nissan was in fact doing the "right thing" by reallocating the mistaken orders to the proper people based on order date, I'd feel better about the whole thing...

 

[edatoakrun]

My 10/1 Order still in MOM.

I received no call back from CS escalation, as promised for last Tuesday.

I just called CS again, and was told the only "supervisor" was on a "business trip" last week, and will call me back... someday...

My order is the identical twin of ttweeds, with identical reservation and order (I had an earlier RAQ) dates, so that means...

I have no Idea what that means, actually.

 

[garygid]

TT,
Maybe you can call your Nissan "VP" contact to thank him for getting your order "fixed". In the process you might ask him if they are going to fix all the other (hundreds) of skipped-over orders, or if each one needs to "escalate" their own individual case.

Thanks for your fine work!
Cheers, Gary

 

[Beachcliffs]

As usual, I am a couple of steps behing ttweed and trentr. But, based on the chat transcipt below (warning: lengthy), it looks like I should be hearing something by Monday.

Nathan: Mr. XXXX , I was just informed that someone is looking into your vehicle disposition and will contact you by Monday.

Update: No word yet from anyone at Nissan today [and no change from "May(be)" status]. I just checked in with chat and was told that it might be another 24 hours. Now I am debating whether I should try to be patient, or if I should try to contact Brain Carolin (or Brendon Jones?) directly.

11:40 Edit: I forgot to mention that despiete requesting an e-mail transcript, Maritz has not yet sent this latest one (you don't suppose that they have read some of my prior posts on this forum, do you?)