Terminology protest

[johnrhansen]

I've owned an electric vehicle long enough now to know the difference... But I still catch myself calling an EVSE a charger.. a serious sin in this forum. What the heck? So what is a charger?.. something you have connected to the wall that adapts to something you plug into a battery or something with a battery for the purpose of charging it. Sounds like an EVSE to me. So now we have two different devices we plug into our car. a level 3 charger, which is actually a charger, and a level 2 evse. It's not called a charger because it doesn't do anything to the power right? So now people have to remember even more and get all confused. Why not just call them all chargers, and call the thing in the car that is supposed to be called a charger a charging power conditioner or CPD. Who came up with this terminology anyway? And how many people actually do anything with the CPD? I venture to say that calling them something different wouldn't affect a great many people.


I'm involved in aviation, so I'm very aware of how important terminology is and how it's futile to try to change something that is already rolling, but I just wanted an opportunity to vent. I'll fall in line now

 

[adric22]

I've owned an electric vehicle long enough now to know the difference... But I still catch myself calling an EVSE a charger.. a serious sin in this forum. What the heck? So what is a charger?.(

I've just gotten to where I call it a charger when I'm talking to the general public. It is far too difficult to explain the difference. It's actually a very similar thing to when I used to work in a computer store years ago. People would call the power adapter to their laptop a "charger." In much the same way, the real charger is inside the laptop. Older laptops actually had a separate board for this where newer ones have it all integrated into the main logic board. But it is futile to get people to change their terminology.

I also think it is irritating how we can call it a "charging station" but not a "charger" and that further helps to confuse people. In fact, I've had so many conversations with people around here in Texas that are EV illiterate I've begun to call them "electric car charger." For example, I was meeting a group of people in Denton yesterday and I had to walk an extra block away from where we were meeting. When asked where I parked I said "I parked another block down at the electric car charger." Because first of all, they didn't know I drive an electric car and probably wouldn't understand what I meant had I just said I parked at the Blink Station or the Charging station.

So to be honest, I'm all for just giving in and calling any EVSE a charger, unless the context of the conversation has something to do with troubleshooting the car or discussing things like charging rates, etc. In these cases we need a clear definition of what we're talking about. In this case it might be good to start using the phrase "onboard charger" or something to clarify that we're talking about the thing inside the car.

 

[ebill3]

So to be honest, I'm all for just giving in and calling any EVSE a charger, unless the context of the conversation has something to do with troubleshooting the car or discussing things like charging rates, etc. In these cases we need a clear definition of what we're talking about. In this case it might be good to start using the phrase "onboard charger" or something to clarify that we're talking about the thing inside the car.

Me too.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

I'm even worse in this regard when people ask me if you have to install something at your house I tell them you can just use the regular 110 plug but if you put in 220 it charges a lot faster. Somehow it just flows better in conversation than "240". Don't even think about getting into 3.3 vs 6 or watts or amps, you'll just lose your audience.

 

[Devin]

I find hand gestures help when explaining the difference between the charging levels as people can visualize both the physical size of the charging equipment and that helps them understand the amount of power supplied as well. I usually explain like so:

-Level 1 is your standard household outlet which takes forever.
Hold up my hand with my index finger and thumb making a circle, like the OK sign.

-Level 2 is 240 volt which are the most common and you can have installed in your garage.
Hold both hands up as if holding an invisible basketball showing the rough size of the AeroVironment EVSE.

-Level 3 is DC fast charging, which is awesome because you can charge in 20 minutes, and they're starting to put them in at places like gas stations and Nissan dealers. They're huge boxes.
Hold my hands out at the sides and switch to top/bottom as if sizing an invisible refrigerator.

 

[DaveEV]

Here's what I do:

Call a place or equipment to charge a "charging station". Everyone understands that and then you technically correct as well.

I'm even worse in this regard when people ask me if you have to install something at your house I tell them you can just use the regular 110 plug but if you put in 220 it charges a lot faster. Somehow it just flows better in conversation than "240".

That's one thing I can't do - I always refer to outlets as either 120V or 240V. 110/220 is just totally wrong.

 

[dgpcolorado]

I'm even worse in this regard when people ask me if you have to install something at your house I tell them you can just use the regular 110 plug but if you put in 220 it charges a lot faster. Somehow it just flows better in conversation than "240". Don't even think about getting into 3.3 vs 6 or watts or amps, you'll just lose your audience.

I don't know, since it is actually about 120 Volts and 240 Volts, I think that "flows" fine...

 

[LeftieBiker]

They screwed up in naming the "EVSE." That doesn't mean we can't call it something understandable, like "smart cord" or "charging cable" instead of the incorrect "charger." Dump the term, not the concept of being accurate.

 

[ObiQuiet]

Unfortunately, it's going upstream against the common usage of, e.g., "cell phone charger" instead of "wall transformer".

 

[johnrhansen]

I just re read my post.. I meant to call the charger a CPC.. I was being a bit ADHD! Hadn't had my coffee yet. LOL.

As for the line voltage... Maybe I'm being a bit simplistic, but level 1 charging works at 110 or at 120, and level 2 at 220 or 240, so i'd say both ways of calling the voltage would be correct... But technically, 110/220 is below the tolerance for household mains voltage if I remember right. I think it's a archaic term. I remember looking at an antique power meter once, it was rated for 100 volts... I guess the mains voltage slowly crept up over the years.

 

[DaveEV]

As for the line voltage... Maybe I'm being a bit simplistic, but level 1 charging works at 110 or at 120, and level 2 at 220 or 240, so i'd say both ways of calling the voltage would be correct... But technically, 110/220 is below the tolerance for household mains voltage if I remember right. I think it's a archaic term. I remember looking at an antique power meter once, it was rated for 100 volts... I guess the mains voltage slowly crept up over the years.

Typically spec is around +-10% is which 108-132VAC if measuring one hot to ground, or 216-264V.

"110/220" has never been a reality, except way back in the day when substantial line losses were acceptable, even then they were feeding the lines with 120V, most likely because it's a multiple of 60 Hz.

Today you should never see more than a couple % difference from 120/240V at your service panel unless you've got a problem.

 

[planet4ever]

I plead guilty to being one of the EVSE vs. charger police. While I do wish, like LeftieBiker, that we had a better term than EVSE, I find that people are terribly confused about charging speeds until they understand that there are two different devices which are each limiting them. If I were to say that the charging rate is the lower of the charger's limit and the charger's limit, that would be nonsense.

As for the old 110/220 vs. 120/240, there is a very simple formula, E * I = P, which relates voltage, amperage, and wattage. If you don't use the correct value for E you won't get the right answer when you apply the formula.

Ray

 

[davewill]

I don't try to enforce the terminology outside the forum, either. It's a charging station or a charger, not an EVSE. However, on the forum, we get into way too many discussions about different chargers and EVSEs and how they interact to NOT use the proper terminology. I DO use 120/240 all the time, but don't correct others who say 110/220 except here on the forum, where people will calculate things wrong if they don't use the right numbers.

 

[ERG4ALL]

I have read as much as 254V at my house. A lot of this depends on how the utility has set up your transformer running to your main panel. Every time there is some load on the system the voltage will drop. That in turn causes an increase in amperage which is hard on electric motors that draw a significant amount of power. Thus, I think they err a little on the plus side rather than the minus. So I guess if we really want to get picky, we should say a nominal 240V or a nominal 120V. Picky, picky, picky :lol:

 

[QuakingLeaf]

Took the comment regarding 220V/240V to heart, and edited my profile to reflect the latter. Grew up with 220V; hence, the affinity for that number.

BTW, Nissan's Owner Manual states voltages as 110/120 and 220/240.

Regarding the EVSE (Control Box + Charge Cable + Charge Connector), why not just call it the "dongle cable" and get rid of any reference to CHARGE? In the electronic industry (older days), when some PC Cards had extra electronics hanging off the cable in a plastic box, that box was termed the "dongle" to make it easy and a no-brainer for discussion (or lack thereof).

 

[thankyouOB]

it is an L1 connection or connector.
and an L2 connector or connection.

 

[EVDRIVER]

The reason people struggle with this is because the industry is lazy and uses the wrong terminology. In no way is an EVSE a charger, this has been beaten to death here already. in simple terms it is a charge CORD. The car has a charger inside but few know that because of this. If you own a golf cart and connect an extension cord to the cart to charge it the cord does not become a charger.

If the EVSE were called a charge cord then it would not be an issue, far too many people think buying a "faster" charger means the car will charge quicker. EVSE is a industry tech term and calling the cord a charger is only ignorance on the part of Nissan, car dealers, and any EVSE manufacturer. Consumers get confused because too many people use the wrong descriptions, technical or not.

Some top misunderstandings:

L2 EVSEs are quick chargers
A EVSE is a charger
The L3 port is needed for charging faster than L1
You can buy an L3 charger for home and hook it up to residential power
You need fast charging at home
Just about everything related to charging an EV.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Hey! How come Tesla calls it 110? Shame on them!

http://www.teslamotors.com/charging#/basics" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Deleted member 8423]

Some people need to get off their high horse and deal with it. :roll:

USB Flash drive - Commonly referred to as "a USB"
Bluetooth headset - Commonly referred to as "my Bluetooth"

The terminology doesn't matter here. People will call it whatever makes sense.

99% of people don't know what an EVSE is. Think about how many more people have used USB for other peripherals besides a flash drive, yet they still refer to the drive as their USB.

The battle is over and EVSE already lost. If you want things to be easier next time, make sure a marketing person is involved in the discussions before finalizing terminology. (Normally those folks are pretty useless, but this is a place where they could help)

And for those of you that are overly aggressive in correcting the use of the terminology - Stop being a-holes. You're scaring away people that are interested in the cars.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

And for those of you that are overly aggressive in correcting the use of the terminology - Stop being a-holes. You're scaring away people that are interested in the cars.

+1